Postgame grumblings thread

[Dojji]

Thought we should have a thread where we can take our left over angst after facing postgame frustration, an attack of the Ifonlys, or needing to celebrate a decisive Red Sox triumph.

 

I thought we might kick this off by discussing the umpiring of the 4/8 game. Performance of HP ump Davidson was well beyond a reasonable margin for error. While I don't like to ascribe to malice what can be explained by simple incompetence, the consistency with which the Rays pitchers got the wide strike while the Sox pitchers did not stretches the plausibility of incompetence a bit.

 

Also, nice to see Varitek in particular at least making decent contact even if it isn't finding holes. We've had a lot of that tonight. If he can keep that up he'll be rewarded with a good year.

[diony]

Thought we should have a thread where we can take our left over angst after facing postgame frustration' date=' an attack of the Ifonlys, or needing to celebrate a decisive Red Sox triumph.[/quote']

Just use the Yankees thread.

[yeszir]

I don't mind a wide strike zone just as long as its CONSISTENTLY wide

[SCM33]

Why was JD Drew not available for pinch hitting for Lowrie with the bases loaded......with a backup infielder (Green) available on the bench to play defense after the Drew AB?????

 

Was his back acting up again? Are we going to have another year of this crap? Highest paid player on the team unable for a pinch hitting appearance in a crutial spot? Good grief.

[ORS]

I think your grief is misplaced. Even if your assumption that Drew was physically incapable of PH'ing is correct, there's still a healthy option with a history of pounding RHP. Chris Carter is who I would have gone to last night, especially with Drew's selectivity at the plate and the wide strikezone mentioned upthread. This is a non-move that I think we should all be accustomed to at this point. Francona just doesn't remove starters all that often.

[ItRaysAlot]

You guys are the only ones crying about the strike zone. Funny that Rick Sutcliffe and company never hinted at an inconsistant strike zone last night. The Rays were the better team last night, plain and simple.

[BSN07]

You guys are the only ones crying about the strike zone. Funny that Rick Sutcliffe and company never hinted at an inconsistant strike zone last night. The Rays were the better team last night' date=' plain and simple.[/quote']

 

That may be, but if you want any kind of respect from us, you better show up when the Rays are losing, and not only when they win home slice.

[BSN07]

You guys are the only ones crying about the strike zone. Funny that Rick Sutcliffe and company never hinted at an inconsistant strike zone last night. The Rays were the better team last night' date=' plain and simple.[/quote']

 

And it's not all BS, as ORS explains here(BTW ORS is the the system that take 60 slow motion pics during the ball flight to home plate?) it's the most accurate system out there that I know of if it is.

 

PitchFX recap:

 

Rays Pitchers

[table]Pitcher|Gift|Squeeze|Net

Kazmir|6|1|5

Wheeler|1|1|0

Howell|1|2|-1

Balfour|1|1|0

Total| | |4[/table]

 

Sox Pitchers

[table]Pitcher|Gift|Squeeze|Net

Lester|0|4|-4

MDC|0|0|0

Ramirez|0|0|0

Saito|3|4|-1

Lopez|0|2|-2

Total| | |-7[/table]

 

That's an 11 call swing. Pretty bad. The final plots at brooksbaseball reveal we got squeezed more than they got gifts. Although, watching that game, what hurt most with their gifts was the timing. The 6th and the 8th featured high LEV ABs where the Sox had multiple runners on and Rays pitchers managed to get crucial K's via the extra wide strikezone. Oh well, hope it evens out today.

[ORS]

You guys are the only ones crying about the strike zone. Funny that Rick Sutcliffe and company never hinted at an inconsistant strike zone last night. The Rays were the better team last night' date=' plain and simple.[/quote']

You are the CBK, right? The 40 y/o man who dresses up in costumes and makeup to attend baseball games? Ever give any thought to approaching the game from an adult's perspective? If not, just STFU and let the grown folks talk baseball. You might actually learn something.

[TheKilo]

You guys are the only ones crying about the strike zone. Funny that Rick Sutcliffe and company never hinted at an inconsistant strike zone last night. The Rays were the better team last night' date=' plain and simple.[/quote']

 

The hell are you talking about? Sutcliffe railed on the strike zone all night

[BoSox21]

It's called selective hearing. Just like this guy does selective baseball watching and subsequently, selective trolling on a Red Sox message board.

[ItRaysAlot]

Unless he railed on it after 9pm (had to watch Lost), all I heard from him was Kazmir's placement of his outside fastball. Ortiz was not happy about a 1st or 2nd inning called strike, but other than that, nothing jumps out to me r/g strike zone issues. It is too early in the season to be blaming games on the umps. Would an accurate and consistant stike zone got the Sox an additional 5 runs last night?

[Dojji]

It might have. At least one of those creatively-called strikes was the third strike second out of an inning in which we had multiple runners on base and another killed a two-out rally. Furthermore, hitters require the ability to judge the strike zone to be effective at what they do -- when it's being called unfairly it throws everyone off. That, more than Kazmir's rather average stuff last night, was behind his good numbers.

[BoSox21]

then shut the f*** up about how Sutcliffe wasn't talking about the strike zone if you didn't watch the game past the 5th inning

[Dojji]

Seriously.

 

BTW plenty of good signs from Lester today even with how the 5th worked out for him. His velocity is strong and he made some good pitches. With a bit better defense behind him he would have gotten through the 6th no problem. He was hitting 95 pretty regularly in the early going and I think he just got tired there towards the end -- if he was in midseason form this game goes very differently, but he needs to rebuild his endurance.

 

If I had to advise Lester it'd be to throw a few more two-seam fastballs and cutters and try to work some more outs by contact. You really don't have to strike everyone out after all.

 

Also definitely encouraged by MDC and Ramram. Those two keep it up and they might be our setup tandem this year. We could do a whole heck of a lot worse.

[yeszir]

Unless he railed on it after 9pm (had to watch Lost)

 

Rays fan alert! Rays fan alert!

[ItRaysAlot]

"Unfairly"...C'mon. You lost. Stop implying there was some Rays strike zone conspiracy last night. Don't begin to tell me that after the 5th the ump decided to give the Rays a liberal strike zone and a conservative one to the Sox. I agree, I think Kazmir was lucky to only walk away w/1 run. Too many walks and so so placement. It could have been the weather. However, he is back to three pitches which he did not have last year.

[ORS]

Does the strikezone matter?

 

The OPS for AL hitters after a specific count last year. The colums will be "Start" for the count when the pitch was thrown, "Squeeze" will be the resulting count if the pitch was called a ball, "Gift" will be the count if the pitch was called a strike, "Delta" will be the change in OPS from one resulting count to the other.

 

[table]Start|Squeeze|Gift|Delta

0-0|1-0|0-1|.198

1-0|2-0|1-1|.282

1-1|2-1|1-2|.293

2-0|3-0|2-1|.436

2-1|3-1|2-2|.446

2-2|3-2|2-3|.846

3-2|4-2|3-3|1.000[/table]

 

I'd say it matters. Hell, if the first pitch is called incorrectly, it's the difference between Albert Pujols and Carlos Pena. From there, the impact only gains importance.

[Dipre]

Unless he railed on it after 9pm (had to watch Lost)' date=' all I heard from him was Kazmir's placement of his outside fastball. Ortiz was not happy about a 1st or 2nd inning called strike, but other than that, nothing jumps out to me r/g strike zone issues. It is too early in the season to be blaming games on the umps. Would an accurate and consistant stike zone got the Sox an additional 5 runs last night?[/quote']

 

An even more important issue would be:

 

Who the f*** are you?

 

Just because you jumped on the Rays' BW last year don't mean you know baseball.

 

So STFU and allow us to continue with the solid, unbiased baseball discussion.

[ORS]

"Unfairly"...C'mon. You lost. Stop implying there was some Rays strike zone conspiracy last night. Don't begin to tell me that after the 5th the ump decided to give the Rays a liberal strike zone and a conservative one to the Sox. I agree' date=' I think Kazmir was lucky to only walk away w/1 run. Too many walks and so so placement. It could have been the weather. However, he is back to three pitches which he did not have last year.[/quote']

I, myself, have not spoken to motive. It's just as likely, in my mind, that the ump last night was incompetent. That incompetence may be due to a desire to be "part of the show" or it may be due to being unable to see clearly. I don't know.

 

Here's what I do know. According to the MLB system that tracks every pitch for velocity, spin, break, release point, and location....according to that system, there were 7 net strikes taken from the Sox last night and 4 net given to the Rays.

 

When you combine that fact with the table about batter performance by count I posted above, then it brings question into what the true outcome of the game would have been. I say this realizing that over the course of a season the Sox will have games where they benefit and the Rays will have games where they are robbed, and hopefully, it all evens out in the end.

[BoSox21]

For what its worth, I was watching a Canadian feed and all night, the guy was talking about how much of a problem it has been in baseball that umpires are inconsistent with their strike zones

[ORS]

Given that table, I think it's the biggest problem with the game (on the field). At any given moment and umpire can turn Derek Jeter into Alex Gonzalez or vice versa. Not literally, obviously, but you get the idea.

[BoSox21]

No question. Unfortunately, it's pretty much the last stand for all baseball purists who feel taking the element of human error or interpretation out will ruin the game as opposed to taking advantage of technology to keep as much of a level playing field as possible.

 

A hitter's approach to an at-bat, whether to be aggressive or work the count as much as possible, shouldn't depend on the guy standing behind the catcher.

[ItRaysAlot]

Guys, don't you think you are giving the umps too much power? Strike zone issues have been part of the game since its inception. There is no good solution like instant replay in football. Like ORS said, the assumption is that calls even out in the end. Calls and no calls is part of what makes this game so great.

 

The stats are a good guide and I am sure there are MLB Corporate geeks that study this stuff. However, at the end of the day it is about weighing the cost and benefits. For instance, would there be a tangible benefit to the game if the balls were micro chipped w/having some sort of sensor near the box that could accurately call a ball and strike? In my opinion, no. Human element is what gives our cherished games greatness. The moment you bring computers into the fray to fix perceived on field "issues" you jeopardize the tenants that made those games great in the 1st place. What fixes to strike zone issues would you guys recommend?

[BoSox21]

Would you say the game of tennis has benefitted from the hawk eye system or has it lessened the game because it isn't quite the way our grandfathers used to watch it?

[Dojji]

Would you say the game of tennis has benefitted from the hawk eye system or not or has it lessened the game because it isn't quite the way our grandfathers used to watch it?

 

Definitely has. If nothing else it can shame a ref who gets it wrong.

[BoSox21]

Human element is what gives our cherished games greatness.

 

The #1 priority of any proper sports league should be to get the calls right first and foremost. That shouldn't go at the expense of maintaining things "they way they've always been". Umpires never used to discuss calls amongst each other and if they still didn't, the Sox never would've won the 2004 ALCS

[BSN07]

Unless he railed on it after 9pm (had to watch Lost)?

 

 

 

Lost my ass, more like it was bedtime.

 

And the fact you chose Lost over a game in which TB was in/winning tells a lot.

[Dojji]

Human element is what gives our cherished games greatness.

 

Yeah, sure. But it's the human element of the pitchers and fielders and hitters. NOT of the UMPIRES.

 

The moment the umpire becomes part of the show he's already failed in his primary job, which is to be part of the background and call the game as fairly as possible..

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

"Unfairly"...C'mon. You lost. Stop implying there was some Rays strike zone conspiracy last night. Don't begin to tell me that after the 5th the ump decided to give the Rays a liberal strike zone and a conservative one to the Sox. I agree' date=' I think Kazmir was lucky to only walk away w/1 run. Too many walks and so so placement. It could have been the weather. However, he is back to three pitches which he did not have last year.[/quote']

Where were you Tuesday, shitforbrains?