Gammons dumbass prediction

[TheKilo]

I think he was talking about pitchers.

[Mr Crunchy]

theyre paying dice k carl pavano money but perhaps i shouldve clarified that they never went balls deep pitching,if you factor in the payoff to the owners in japan i guess dice k was a big name.

Lugo and Drew i wont ever for the life of me understand

it goes beyond stupidity and into a realm of loneliness and misery that only theo epstein and his symphyionic ball washers can appreciate.

[jacksonianmarch]

The major difference Gom is missing here is what these guys were signed for. The vets we signed were passed over by a lot of other teams, they were signed at a value, and that value is tied to the fact that there is injury concern for each player. In short, they were signed with the hope of catching lightning in a bottle. If the lightning fails to strike, there is no great reliance on their performance for the season to still be a success. It will help, but it's not contingent upon it.

 

I can find no similar signing in recent history for the Yankees.

 

John Lieber

[BoSox21]

thats a fair example

[Gom]

Shawn Chacon.

[BoSox21]

Ironically, the Yankees got Chacon by trading Ramon Ramirez...

 

But wasn't Chacon acquired after being DFAed? Every single team trades for guys who have been DFAed

[ORS]

John Lieber

Good point........

 

if only Jon Lieber wasn't consistently average and incapable of producing anything in a bottle.

[Dipre]

No argument there, with one exception. The guys you've signed are all coming off injuries and are old. That's it. We had less holes than you in the past, and did exactly what you're doing. Don't read into it. What a terrible inferiority complex you guys have. When you signed Dice-K, Drew, and Lugo, you had holes we didn't. We were the one's going with the "veterans".

 

Just because it didn't work doesn't mean it won't work for you. That's it. All I'm saying, and people who are ESL like diaper can't understand it, but I'm not surprised since all he knows how to do is pump gas.

 

We're all biased towards out team, but I'm one of the least biased ones. Diaper, the next time you question my objectivity and compare it to Jacko's, God help me, I'll get you deported.

 

Deported from where, genius?

 

I live in D.R, not USA, i've said it like 1,000 times.

 

I do apologize for the Jacko comparison.

 

However, you are very biased, and you misunderstood my statement and turned it around for the pleasure of your interpretation.

 

So keep mowing my lawn and STFU.

[CrespoBlows]

What is up with calling him diaper?

 

It's the f***ing cheapest attempt at humor. If this isn't a typo, Gom should be immediately banned.

[jacksonianmarch]

All I am saying is that the idea that Smoltz, at 41, on a reconstructed shoulder would be the best pitcher in any month in the loaded AL East is an absolute farce. Chamberlain, Burnett, Sabathia, Wang, Beckett, DiceK, Lester, Halladay, Kazmir, Price, Shields, and Guthrie are all much better pitchers at this point. It would take a mammoth effort to even be in the same discussion with those guys. I have said before and I will say it again. It is a long shot that John Smoltz has a meaningful impact on the sox in 2009.

[Dipre]

What is up with calling him diaper?

 

It's the f***ing cheapest attempt at humor. If this isn't a typo, Gom should be immediately banned.

 

It's no use, he and diony are jerk-offs, guess i have no choice but to change my screen name or something.

[CrespoBlows]

Depends on what John Smoltz we get back.

 

The guy's last two healthy seasons were fantastic, he showed that he could still pitch, however limited, in 2008, and he's still missing bats at good rates.

 

He might have some rust when he gets back, but he hasn't shown any signs of slowing down statistically. He's still a good pitcher, until he shows otherwise.

 

Why the petty scoff at the prediction? The only two on that list that are clearly better than Smoltz are Halladay and Sabathia. You seem to do this often. In your futile attempt to win an argument, you allow all rational forms of thought to completely escape you. Do you really think you fool people when you come out with your arbitrary list of fail?

[jacksonianmarch]

He just had reconstructive shoulder surgery. Does anyone think that this might be a massive deterrent to a 41 yr old pitcher?

[CrespoBlows]

It's no use' date=' he and diony are jerk-offs, guess i have no choice but to change my screen name or something.[/quote']

 

No, I want to see if they do it again, or if it really was a typo.

 

I can name two groups of humans that would laugh at that joke, or think to use it as humor. Not one of these groups have a fully functioning mind, and only one would be over age four.

[jacksonianmarch]

He just had reconstructive shoulder surgery. Does anyone think that this might be a massive deterrent to a 41 yr old pitcher?

[CrespoBlows]

He just had reconstructive shoulder surgery. Does anyone think that this might be a massive deterrent to a 41 yr old pitcher?

 

He seems to be in good shape, and all reports have him coming back in June.

 

If he comes up short in throwing sessions, I'll change my tune, but he's not a corpse.

[CrespoBlows]

 

Did you really ask this question twice in four minutes?

[jacksonianmarch]

He's not a corpse, you are right. But when he was in his prime, capable of dominating any league, he was like Beckett, only better. Mid 90s heat, biting splitter, impeccable control. Well, prior to his injury, his FB sank into the 90-92 range. Now, at 41 and coming off reconstructive shoulder surgery you are likely to see a serious drop in velocity. His game was power. He'll have to:

 

A: recover from the surgery

 

B: re-invent himself as a finesse pitcher

 

all in a span from June to Sept. It wont happen. If he is strong enough to come back, he'll be an AL East afterthought. I honestly think he will not have a meaningful impact on the 09 campaign for the sox

[CrespoBlows]

He's not a corpse' date=' you are right. But when he was in his prime, capable of dominating any league, he was like Beckett, only better. Mid 90s heat, biting splitter, impeccable control. Well, prior to his injury, his FB sank into the 90-92 range. Now, at 41 and coming off [b']reconstructive shoulder surgery[/b] you are likely to see a serious drop in velocity. His game was power. He'll have to:

 

A: recover from the surgery

 

B: re-invent himself as a finesse pitcher

 

all in a span from June to Sept. It wont happen. If he is strong enough to come back, he'll be an AL East afterthought. I honestly think he will not have a meaningful impact on the 09 campaign for the sox

 

Smoltz hasn't suffered a drop in performance. At all. He has been one of the better control pitchers for the last four years. He hasn't walked over 55 batters in four years. He can hit his spots. If his velocity is near 90 mph, he should be fine.

 

I want to see how he does in late March, when he starts throwing.

[jacksonianmarch]

Smoltz hasn't suffered a drop in performance. At all. He has been one of the better control pitchers for the last four years. He hasn't walked over 55 batters in four years. He can hit his spots. If his velocity is near 90 mph, he should be fine.

 

I want to see how he does in late March, when he starts throwing.

 

John Smoltz was right above 90 mph before blowing out the shoulder. What make you think he can sit at or above 90 now? Thats the thing. Look at the recent history in high profile pitchers coming off shoulder reconstruction.

 

Pedro- sitting around 90mph prior to blowing out the shoulder. Sat mid 80s last yr and was getting killed in the NL East

Mulder- blew out his shoulder, had it reconstructed, then reinjured the shoulder, had more surgery and is now dying for a minor league deal

Prior- blew out his shoulder, needed 2 more surgeries and once again is on a MiLB deal with SD.

 

Shoulder reconstruction is not TJ. TJ surgery, guys come back throwing harder mostly because the surgery has been perfected (97% success rate) and the regimen these guys go through to get that elbow back in shape gets their bodies in better shape than before. The biggest issues with TJ are guys rushing back and hurting their shoulders. The shoulder reconstruction surgery is far from perfected. The shoulder is such an interesting and intricate joint that once reconstructed, you cannot get it back to the strength that a native, non injured joint would have been. Not the same for an elbow. Its a hinge joint that is non weight bearing.

 

Also, the rare success stories seen to happen in the much younger pitchers like Schilling when he had his labrum repaired.

[Dojji]

Shoulder surgery is pretty serious, but velocity is as much based on mechanics as it is strength. There are any number of pitchers that have had shoulder surgery and came back with no loss in velocity. In fact they sometimes come back even more effective because they spend some time on that marginal, do I tough it out, do I get surgery, fence before they get it.

 

Smoltz' mechanics are fine. The only question is whether his body will allow him to stay on the field long enough to be effective. As long as he isn't throwing 85 MPH he'll be effective.

[BSN07]

He just had reconstructive shoulder surgery. Does anyone think that this might be a massive deterrent to a 41 yr old pitcher?

 

And AJ Burnett just signed a nice 5/80M deal. You don't think this will be a deterrent for a known prima donna who has never thrown 200 innings outside of a contract season?

 

 

Jacko it's dumb prediction from BBTN. I can't believe this has you so wound up. This leads me to believe that you are seriously worried about Smoltz actually being a quality pitcher for the stretch run. The truth is all right here in your reactions, deny all you want too, but somewhere theres a part in you that is worried what Smoltz might be able to pull off.

 

If you honestly thought he was going to be a non issue, why make this thread, why post about his shoulder over and over when we all know about it already? Why make such a big deal over seemingly nothing?

[Dipre]

And AJ Burnett just signed a nice 5/80M deal. You don't think this will be a deterrent for a known prima donna who has never thrown 200 innings outside of a contract season?

 

 

Jacko it's dumb prediction from BBTN. I can't believe this has you so wound up. This leads me to believe that you are seriously worried about Smoltz actually being a quality pitcher for the stretch run. The truth is all right here in your reactions, deny all you want too, but somewhere theres a part in you that is worried what Smoltz might be able to pull off.

 

If you honestly thought he was going to be a non issue, why make this thread, why post about his shoulder over and over when we all know about it already? Why make such a big deal over seemingly nothing?

 

 

Because the fact is, every single good thing about the Red Sox said by ANYONE no matter how biased or objective they may be, needs to be debated through a long and boring process of douchebagerie and misinterpretation by jacko until he is either proven wrong or loses all credibility through the sheer amount of subject manipulation.

 

But in this case, i think he's just kinda scared of what Smoltz might bring to this team.

[diony]

It's no use' date=' he and [b']diony[/b] are jerk-offs, guess i have no choice but to change my screen name or something.

 

Now what?

[YAZMAN]

John Smoltz was right above 90 mph before blowing out the shoulder. What make you think he can sit at or above 90 now? Thats the thing. Look at the recent history in high profile pitchers coming off shoulder reconstruction.

 

Pedro- sitting around 90mph prior to blowing out the shoulder. Sat mid 80s last yr and was getting killed in the NL East

Mulder- blew out his shoulder, had it reconstructed, then reinjured the shoulder, had more surgery and is now dying for a minor league deal

Prior- blew out his shoulder, needed 2 more surgeries and once again is on a MiLB deal with SD.

 

Shoulder reconstruction is not TJ. TJ surgery, guys come back throwing harder mostly because the surgery has been perfected (97% success rate) and the regimen these guys go through to get that elbow back in shape gets their bodies in better shape than before. The biggest issues with TJ are guys rushing back and hurting their shoulders. The shoulder reconstruction surgery is far from perfected. The shoulder is such an interesting and intricate joint that once reconstructed, you cannot get it back to the strength that a native, non injured joint would have been. Not the same for an elbow. Its a hinge joint that is non weight bearing.

 

Also, the rare success stories seen to happen in the much younger pitchers like Schilling when he had his labrum repaired.

 

Is this all you have to hold on to going into this season? Obsession with our #5?

 

 

I wish one of the characters on Scrubs was a baseball fan.

 

Really.

[ORS]

Jacko didn't get the memo that we are living in the age of information. The power of the internet to disseminate information to those who actively seek it out is supreme. You can find anything....if you look. For instance, I became curious about the validity of Jacko's velocity reporting for John Smoltz last year, because the point about him being a power pitcher is valid. What isn't, is Jacko's memory.

 

If you look at these links, you'll see the pitch f/x data as compiled by BrooksBaseball.net for each Smoltz start last year.

 

April 6, 2008

April 12, 2008

April 17, 2008

April 22, 2008

April 27, 2008

June 2, 2008

 

He was, and this is the range pulled from Jacko's rear, "90-92" with his FB average in 2 of his 6 starts (with the last one in April, before he went on the DL, being 89.29, so actually just below which is why I counted it). He was 93+ in 3 of his 6 starts.

 

This is an important distinction because Jacko's whole point is based on an understated fabrication of his own making.

[az1soxfan15]

from BBTN at 5:15pm.

 

"John Smoltz will be the best pitcher in the AL come September"

 

Full of s***

 

 

might not be the best pitcher in the AL but i love havin smoltz on this staff. hes never had an ERA over 3.49 since 1994 i think he can translate pretty well over in the AL. And you yankee fans wait until the post season you will see why sox nation will love this guys so much...

[az1soxfan15]

He's not a corpse' date=' you are right. But when he was in his prime, capable of dominating any league, he was like Beckett, only better. Mid 90s heat, biting splitter, impeccable control. Well, prior to his injury, his FB sank into the 90-92 range. Now, at 41 and coming off [b']reconstructive shoulder surgery[/b] you are likely to see a serious drop in velocity. His game was power. He'll have to:

 

A: recover from the surgery

 

B: re-invent himself as a finesse pitcher

 

all in a span from June to Sept. It wont happen. If he is strong enough to come back, he'll be an AL East afterthought. I honestly think he will not have a meaningful impact on the 09 campaign for the sox

 

 

 

as for B. dont you think smoltz is the guy who can definetly do that. He went from starter to closer which is no piece of cake

[Dojji]

as for B. dont you think smoltz is the guy who can definetly do that. He went from starter to closer which is no piece of cake

 

Yes and then he went and adjusted back the other way which is even harder. If you bet against Smoltz's ability to make good sound adjustments you'll lose every time.

[YAZMAN]

What is up with calling him diaper?

 

It's the f***ing cheapest attempt at humor. If this isn't a typo, Gom should be immediately banned.

 

His screen name should be immediately changed to Peter Gommons.