Yankees CF competition

[jacksonianmarch]

This is probably the only significant battle at the beginning of camp. Catcher is set so long as Posada can throw. 1B is set with Tex. Cano is at 2B. Jeter at SS. ARod at 3rd. Damon in LF. Matsui at DH. Nady and Swish in RF. But CF is wide open especially since Girardi has said that Damon and Swisher are not the answer. So, right now, it comes down to three players. Brett Gardner, Melky Cabrera and Austin Jackson. Jackson right now hasnt even played in AAA, he likely is out. So, its between Melky and Gardner. And right now Gardner has the early lead.

 

Gardner- 5-10, 3R, 2 2B, 2HR, 1BB

Melky- 1-8 with no BB, 1K and 1 single

 

And considering Melky is out of options, this may be the last time we see him in pinstripes

[Cocos Disciples]

This is probably the only significant battle at the beginning of camp. Catcher is set so long as Posada can throw. 1B is set with Tex. Cano is at 2B. Jeter at SS. ARod at 3rd. Damon in LF. Matsui at DH. Nady and Swish in RF. But CF is wide open especially since Girardi has said that Damon and Swisher are not the answer. So, right now, it comes down to three players. Brett Gardner, Melky Cabrera and Austin Jackson. Jackson right now hasnt even played in AAA, he likely is out. So, its between Melky and Gardner. And right now Gardner has the early lead.

 

Gardner- 5-10, 3R, 2 2B, 2HR, 1BB

Melky- 1-8 with no BB, 1K and 1 single

 

18 combined at bats isn't nearly enough to make a decision. I probably go with Gardner, though.

 

And considering Melky is out of options, this may be the last time we see him in pinstripes

 

Especially with Jackson coming up, who should take over the job in 2010.

[jacksonianmarch]

At this point, I go with Gardner too. I like Melky, dont get me wrong, but I think he needs a change of scenery. Plus, I think Gardner adds more to this team. He has much more speed and is better in terms of range in CF. Also, his eye is much better. If Gardner gets on base 35% of the time, then we wont even wonder what Melky could have done

[Cocos Disciples]

Just for kicks, here are the PECOTAs for both players:

 

Cabrera: .267/.326/.376/.702; 8 HR, 49 RBI, 10 SB in 484 PA

Gardner: .253/.339/.351/.690; 4 HR, 32 RBI, 32 SB in 498 PA

[jacksonianmarch]

A .340OBP for Gardner? I'd take it to be totally honest. If he had 550PAs and reached base 187 times, I'd expect him to steal about 45 bases and be a pest.

[diony]

I'd go with Damon/Swisher/Gardner in CF. I'm sure Joe will find enough ABs for everyone.

[BSN07]

A change of scenery for Melky will help him? If he can't hit with all that protection he has now, going to some lesser team won't do much for him. Melky is a 4th OF at best, we have been saying it for a long time now, it just took you guys a couple years to catch on.

 

Who was it that was arguing Melky being a HOF caliber type player(or something like that) awhile back?

[Dojji]

I'd go with Damon/Swisher/Gardner in CF. I'm sure Joe will find enough ABs for everyone.

 

So a patoon of Can't Throw, Can't Run, and Can't Hit. Brilliant.

[diony]

So a patoon of Can't Throw' date=' Can't Run, and Can't Hit. Brilliant.[/quote']

 

That's the purpose of that platoon, they can complement each other.

 

For example, when Posada needs to rest, and Molina replaces him. You can't have both Molina and Gardner in the lineup. Those days Swish must play. That's my point. Swisher and as a switch hitter that can play four positions, gives us tremendous flexibility. They must take advantage of that.

[Dojji]

I know, just being a bit of a :harhar: today.

[rician blast]

That's the purpose of that platoon, they can complement each other.

 

 

Players "compliment" one another when they're on the field/ice/court at the same time...tough to make happen in baseball.

 

While I see your point, a liability is a liability, and the Yankees are giving up something fairly significant when they use either of those players over the others.

 

That said, I'm quite happy with that platoon, it's always a good laugh seeing Johnny throw and Swisher is amusing to watch run. And Gardner is...well, Gardner.

[Mr Crunchy]

Johnny Damon in Boston covered a ton of ground in center field but never could throw, now that his legs are slowing down Damon loses his catalyst spark hitting leadoff in lieu of having more power but he doesnt cover nearly as much ground as he did in Boston.This guy is a walking example of HGH, look at his head from today vs his rookie year in KC...Crow Magnum didnt have this much differential from Homo Erectus..I believe Damon and Petey both used H in Boston.

[BoSox21]

I'm not too big on accusing guys of doping based on how different they looked back when they were 21, it's pretty common for a person's body to continue developing past the age of 21.

 

I'd think if anyone, especially a prominent player, was on something while playing in Boston or New York, there would at least be whispers simply because of the fishbowl markets those two are. Some have whispered Damon simply because of how he's broken down in the past couple of years but look at how he played in Boston, it isn't that surprising.

[Dojji]

And it's Cro Magnon.

 

Cood name for one of those old detective stories though.

[Mr Crunchy]

Nobodys forehead grows out unless they got that gigantis disease, both petey and damons heads look like watermellons, not just weight gain but actual skull growth.

After 01 Martinez velocity was down and I believe he hurt his arm in the 99 allstar game.

for him to hang on another 5+6 years based on pitch selection and grit tells me something else was involved...

too many big pitches in too many big games and being built like a woman is a bad mix.

now he cant even get a minor league gig,he should retire under the same mango tree he grew up under, keep his money and enjoy the memories

[CrespoBlows]

I know' date=' just being a bit of a :harhar: today.[/quote']

 

Are you f***ing serious?

[Paradisecity]

Im pretty sure he spent all his money on the midget.

[rician blast]

I'd think if anyone' date=' especially a prominent player, was on something while playing in Boston or New York, there would at least be whispers simply because of the fishbowl markets those two are. [/quote']

 

Then how do we explain the fact that so many thought ARod would someday be the real HR champ...the clean guy? And who ever, besides me, suspected Andy "the lieing piece of s*** who somehow has become the poster boy for "coming clean" " Pettitte?

 

Most players hide this stuff well, I think they know not to trust anyone, even teammates.

 

I've never heard whispers about Youk but I believe he's used...same with Damon and Petey, Troy O'Leary and Johnny Valentin, Varitek and Trot Nixon. Some of it is based on performance, some based on appearance, some based on attitude or something I can't exactly explain, but having worked in a gym back in college I got pretty damn good at spotting the users.

[jacksonianmarch]

Back to the topic, I do think Melky could use a change of scenery. He's a guy who does very well if left alone. We hid him in the 9 hole for 2 yrs and he was a solid CFer. Once we needed him to hit after Matsui and Posada went down, he went in the tank. I think he'd be a guy who could make something of himself in a place like Pittsburgh or Cincy where the fans dont care and he could learn what its like to play in places where baseball is nothing to the area. I still think Melky could be a .300 hitter, and the fact that he still had a market after being so bad last season tells me that other teams think the same. I just dont think he can do it here. Everytime he F's up the fans are gonna ride him.

 

In terms of Gardner, I like him a lot. He's a gamer, but I understand he has some serious flaws. Minimal power, good eye, blazing speed. He's our version of Ellsbury. I think Gardner has the more easily reached ceiling and I do think his approach is more advanced than Ells at this moment, but I think Ells has the higher ceiling in terms of extra base hits and developing power.

[Dipre]

Back to the topic, I do think Melky could use a change of scenery. He's a guy who does very well if left alone. We hid him in the 9 hole for 2 yrs and he was a solid CFer. Once we needed him to hit after Matsui and Posada went down, he went in the tank. I think he'd be a guy who could make something of himself in a place like Pittsburgh or Cincy where the fans dont care and he could learn what its like to play in places where baseball is nothing to the area. I still think Melky could be a .300 hitter, and the fact that he still had a market after being so bad last season tells me that other teams think the same. I just dont think he can do it here. Everytime he F's up the fans are gonna ride him.

 

In terms of Gardner, I like him a lot. He's a gamer, but I understand he has some serious flaws. Minimal power, good eye, blazing speed. He's our version of Ellsbury. I think Gardner has the more easily reached ceiling and I do think his approach is more advanced than Ells at this moment, but I think Ells has the higher ceiling in terms of extra base hits and developing power.

 

Jacko, seriously, stop smoking crack.

 

Comparing Ellsbury to Gardner?

 

KK DOOD U JUS GAVE ME A SRIOUS ATK OF DA LOLZ.

[diony]

There's nothing wrong with that. Ellsbury is better of course, more power and less Ks. In the end the only thing that matters is OBP. They both have the same career OBP in the minors .389.

 

So the comparison is fair, but don't make it sound like Ellsbury is so much better.

[Dipre]

There's nothing wrong with that. Ellsbury is better of course, more power and less Ks. In the end the only thing that matters is OBP. They both have the same career OBP in the minors .389.

 

So the comparison is fair, but don't make it sound like Ellsbury is so much better.

 

Then try comparing "in his prime" Johnny Damon to Coco Crisp, and you'll find it that they are very different players.

 

And Ellsbury is, in fact, a much better player,so that's what it should sound like.

[diony]

Then try comparing "in his prime" Johnny Damon to Coco Crisp, and you'll find it that they are very different players.

 

And Ellsbury is, in fact, a much better player,so that's what it should sound like.

 

How is Damon in his prime comparable to Ellsbury? Seriously. Gardner-Crisp seems fair.

 

How is Ellsbury a MUCH better player than Gardner?

[Dipre]

How is Damon in his prime comparable to Ellsbury? Seriously. Gardner-Crisp seems fair.

 

How is Ellsbury a MUCH better player than Gardner?

 

Similar OBP i'll give you that.

 

But if you factor in the fact that you stated yourself that Ells has the better batting eye and more power.

 

Plus, he covers more ground an is the better basestealer.

 

Would you not qualify that as being "much better"?

[diony]

Similar OBP i'll give you that.

 

But if you factor in the fact that you stated yourself that Ells has the better batting eye and more power.

 

Plus, he covers more ground an is the better basestealer.

 

Would you not qualify that as being "much better"?

 

Ellsbury's SB% (MiLB ): 80%

Gardner's SB% (MiLB ): 83%

 

Ellsbury's UZR (2008): 5.3 in CF.

Gardner's UZR (2008): 66.3 in CF. (Small sample size of 160 Inn, but he's definitely around 5 on a full season).

 

Swing and miss.

 

Again Ellsbury is better, but not that MUCH better.

[TheKilo]

They're both garbage.

[26 to 6]

Similar OBP i'll give you that.

 

But if you factor in the fact that you stated yourself that Ells has the better batting eye and more power.

 

Plus, he covers more ground an is the better basestealer.

 

Would you not qualify that as being "much better"?

How do you know he covers more ground and is a better base stealer? You haven't had many opportunities to see him play. Based on the season your boy Ellsbury had last year I wouldn't be talking that smack in his favor. I very much agree with Jacko and Diony's comparison of the two. They are similar players, but Ellsbury has a higher ceiling, and is/CAN BE more useful with the stick.

[jacksonianmarch]

Jacko, seriously, stop smoking crack.

 

Comparing Ellsbury to Gardner?

 

KK DOOD U JUS GAVE ME A SRIOUS ATK OF DA LOLZ.

 

Why is that so out of the question. Gardner has a more patient approach to hitting at this point, so yes, I'd say his approach right now is better since Ells ended the yr hacking and slashing at any pitch within 2 feet of the zone. Gardner is also just as fast if not faster than Ellsbury and covers ground just as well. They are both extremely similar in their overall games with Ellsbury having more of a power projection (which isnt saying much since Gardner has no power at all).

[Dipre]

Ellsbury's SB% (MiLB ): 80%

Gardner's SB% (MiLB ): 83%

 

Ellsbury's UZR (2008): 5.3 in CF.

Gardner's UZR (2008): 66.3 in CF. (Small sample size of 160 Inn, but he's definitely around 5 on a full season).

 

Swing and miss.

 

Again Ellsbury is better, but not that MUCH better.

 

Small sample size + taking MILB numbers into account when Ells is already putting up MLB numbers = Strike Three called and back to the dugout for you.

 

Ellsbury IS that much better.

 

Lol @ 160 innings sample size.....that ain't small, it's minuscule.

[diony]

Small sample size + taking MILB numbers into account when Ells is already putting up MLB numbers = Strike Three called and back to the dugout for you.

Ellsbury IS that much better.

 

Lol @ 160 innings sample size.....that ain't small, it's minuscule.

 

Well I don't see how. Show me? I already showed you they're both good basestealers (which actually means nothing) and they both cover a lot of ground.

 

And Ells played 546.2 Inn in CF last year. Gardner had 160, that's a considerable difference. If you take Gardner's 66.3 UZR and project it to 600 Inn. I'm sure you get a UZR of around 5-10. Which is as good as Ellsbury.

 

Ellsbury has better power, and can hit for more average. But the difference is not that big. Considering Gardner's power is zero.

 

Don't try to make Ellsbury sound like an All-Star. I've been objective when talking about Ellsbury, he's going to be a solid CF. Funny, you're the one that always says I'm biased.