Sox search for bat

[Dipre]

Guys' date=' the proposed Berkman trade is not really THAT crazy. [b'] If you take off your anti-Dojji glasses for a moment [/b]and look at it based on the needs of the three teams it actually could work OK.

 

First contender for quote of the year 2009.

[Dojji]

Let's talk about one other thing: How many times have you seen a guy who was such a stud that he was definitely going to get traded for a "boatload" of prospects actually get a loaded ship full of quality ballplayers headed the other way? What did Teixeira fetch the Rangers? If I recall correctly he fetched Saltalamacchia and maybe a minor league piece. That's a good catching prospect but it's certainly more if a dinghy than a boat. The deal to the Angels involved an average to somewhat above average 1B and IIRC a minor leaguer or two. Again, not exactly a tall ship of the line loaded with the best choice prospects.

 

The only two "boatload" deals we've seen recently have both involved the Orioles, and one was basically Adam Jones and 5 flavors of fail for Erik Bedard and the other was Luke Scott and 3 flavors of fail for Miguel Tejada. Neither deal was rewarding for the team who loaded up the ship and sailed it to Baltimore. Baltimore didn't get that much actual production out of their new players either in year 1. And for the most part that boat was crewed by maybe one high-ceiling guy and a bunch of schlubs with useful skillsets or utility players -- more Chris Carter than Lars Anderson to be sure.

 

Even the Manny for Bay blockbuster's passengers were more of the "talented disappoinments to their original club" category, which includes LaRoche from LA and Hansen from us.

 

Santana deal? Same story. Gomez has a great ceiling, but other than that Humber is a contact sort and Deolis Guerrez might not become anything at all.

 

In short for all the talk about large numbers of top prospects going back and multiple top prospects into the bargain, you don't see too many deals ever that actually do that, and we've got a deep enough farm system that we have no shortage of interesting second-tier players for a team to look at and take two of instead of Anderson, Buchholz, Masterson or Bowden.

[Dipre]

The only two "boatload" deals we've seen recently have both involved the Orioles' date=' and one was basically Adam Jones and 5 flavors of fail for Erik Bedard and the other was Luke Scott and 3 flavors of fail for Miguel Tejada.[/b'] Neither deal was rewarding for the team who loaded up the ship and sailed it to Baltimore. Baltimore didn't get that much actual production out of their new players either in year 1. And for the most part that boat was crewed by maybe one high-ceiling guy and a bunch of schlubs with useful skillsets or utility players -- more Chris Carter than Lars Anderson to be sure.

 

He's on fire today hahahaha.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Indeed' date=' we need calm the tempers around here.[/quote']

Group therapy required. Maybe we could try role reversal; pretending to be the person on these forums that makes us angry, whoever that may be.

 

 

 

I say we do it, it'd be classic.

[BSN07]

Let's talk about one other thing: How many times have you seen a guy who was such a stud that he was definitely going to get traded for a "boatload" of prospects actually get a loaded ship full of quality ballplayers headed the other way? What did Teixeira fetch the Rangers? If I recall correctly he fetched Saltalamacchia and maybe a minor league piece. That's a good catching prospect but it's certainly more if a dinghy than a boat. The deal to the Angels involved an average to somewhat above average 1B and IIRC a minor leaguer or two. Again, not exactly a tall ship of the line loaded with the best choice prospects.

 

The only two "boatload" deals we've seen recently have both involved the Orioles, and one was basically Adam Jones and 5 flavors of fail for Erik Bedard and the other was Luke Scott and 3 flavors of fail for Miguel Tejada. Neither deal was rewarding for the team who loaded up the ship and sailed it to Baltimore. Baltimore didn't get that much actual production out of their new players either in year 1. And for the most part that boat was crewed by maybe one high-ceiling guy and a bunch of schlubs with useful skillsets or utility players -- more Chris Carter than Lars Anderson to be sure.

 

Even the Manny for Bay blockbuster's passengers were more of the "talented disappoinments to their original club" category, which includes LaRoche from LA and Hansen from us.

 

Santana deal? Same story. Gomez has a great ceiling, but other than that Humber is a contact sort and Deolis Guerrez might not become anything at all.

 

In short for all the talk about large numbers of top prospects going back and multiple top prospects into the bargain, you don't see too many deals ever that actually do that, and we've got a deep enough farm system that we have no shortage of interesting second-tier players for a team to look at and take two of instead of Anderson, Buchholz, Masterson or Bowden.

 

You raise a fair point.:thumbsup:

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

They could wait until the end of ST, let Lowell prove he can play and then send him along with Dice-K and maybe Bard or a OF prospect. But like I said this is only on the assumption they could trade for a SP to replace Dice-K.

 

 

Then possibly put together a 4-6 player package and bring in Webb/Montero, or maybe Felix/Clement.....

 

If the Mariners traded Felix, and/or the Dbacks traded Webb, those GMs would need to be fired.

[Dipre]

If the Mariners traded Felix' date=' and/or the Dbacks traded Webb, those GMs would need to be fired.[/quote']

 

Not necessarily in Webb's case, since he's almost a free agent, and the D'Backs don't have the money to lock him up long term, as for Felix, however, the GM who were to pull that one should have his genitals removed via screwdriver then be choked to death by said genitals being shoved down his throat.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Not necessarily in Webb's case' date=' since he's almost a free agent, and the D'Backs don't have the money to lock him up long term, as for Felix, however, the GM who were to pull that one should have his genitals removed via screwdriver then be choked to death by said genitals being shoved down his throat.[/quote']

Webb is a FA in 2010 I think. But trading him right now is stupid. With him and Haren at the top of the rotation (and a couple more pretty decent young guys ready to step in), combined with all the up and coming position players they have, there's no reason they can't contend these next two years. If the D-Backs are awful this year and it becomes obvious that they won't contend in 2010, then I'd look into trading Webb.

[riverside sluggers]

Damn imagine that FA group of starting pitchers in 2010

 

Josh Beckett

Roy Halladay

Dan Haren

Scott Kazmir

Cliff Lee

Brandon Webb

[jacksonianmarch]

Let's talk about one other thing: How many times have you seen a guy who was such a stud that he was definitely going to get traded for a "boatload" of prospects actually get a loaded ship full of quality ballplayers headed the other way? What did Teixeira fetch the Rangers? If I recall correctly he fetched Saltalamacchia and maybe a minor league piece. That's a good catching prospect but it's certainly more if a dinghy than a boat. The deal to the Angels involved an average to somewhat above average 1B and IIRC a minor leaguer or two. Again, not exactly a tall ship of the line loaded with the best choice prospects.

 

The only two "boatload" deals we've seen recently have both involved the Orioles, and one was basically Adam Jones and 5 flavors of fail for Erik Bedard and the other was Luke Scott and 3 flavors of fail for Miguel Tejada. Neither deal was rewarding for the team who loaded up the ship and sailed it to Baltimore. Baltimore didn't get that much actual production out of their new players either in year 1. And for the most part that boat was crewed by maybe one high-ceiling guy and a bunch of schlubs with useful skillsets or utility players -- more Chris Carter than Lars Anderson to be sure.

 

Even the Manny for Bay blockbuster's passengers were more of the "talented disappoinments to their original club" category, which includes LaRoche from LA and Hansen from us.

 

Santana deal? Same story. Gomez has a great ceiling, but other than that Humber is a contact sort and Deolis Guerrez might not become anything at all.

 

In short for all the talk about large numbers of top prospects going back and multiple top prospects into the bargain, you don't see too many deals ever that actually do that, and we've got a deep enough farm system that we have no shortage of interesting second-tier players for a team to look at and take two of instead of Anderson, Buchholz, Masterson or Bowden.

 

You missed the boat, again. Tex's deal from Texas to Atlanta was massive. The Rangers got a massive amount of talent. Here's the breakdown

 

Atlanta got:

Mark Teixeira

Ron Mahay

 

Texas got:

Jarrod Saltalamaccia

Elvis Andrus

Matt Harrison

Neftali Perez

Beau Jones

 

Matt Harrison and Perez were two top pitching prospects and are absolute gold for the Rangers. Harrison is 22 and is already in bigs. Perez is 21 and throws absolute smoke, dominated AA and should make a MLB debut this yr. Elvis Andrus is 20 yrs old now and was a top 10 prospect for the Braves. He dominated AA (.300AVG 53 steals) and is pushing Michael Young potentially out of the position or out of town. Salty is a big time bat, who I think will end up as a solid 1b in the bigs. Beau Jones is 22, is a dominant reliever and also should make his MLB debut in 2009. They traded 4 top 10 prospects and a solid relief prospect for Tex and Mahay. And all 5 are expected to be in the bigs within 2 yrs of the deal. And all they got back was 2 picks for Mahay and Casey Kotchmann.

 

So picking this deal as one of the non-boatload deals was absolutely wrong. And thinking that a Berkman deal or a deal for a player of a similar caliber will be any different is just as misguided

[jacksonianmarch]

Damn imagine that FA group of starting pitchers in 2010

 

Josh Beckett

Roy Halladay

Dan Haren

Scott Kazmir

Cliff Lee

Brandon Webb

 

Haren was signed through 2012.

[BSN07]

You missed the boat, again. Tex's deal from Texas to Atlanta was massive. The Rangers got a massive amount of talent. Here's the breakdown

 

Atlanta got:

Mark Teixeira

Ron Mahay

 

Texas got:

Jarrod Saltalamaccia

Elvis Andrus

Matt Harrison

Neftali Perez

Beau Jones

 

Matt Harrison and Perez were two top pitching prospects and are absolute gold for the Rangers. Harrison is 22 and is already in bigs. Perez is 21 and throws absolute smoke, dominated AA and should make a MLB debut this yr. Elvis Andrus is 20 yrs old now and was a top 10 prospect for the Braves. He dominated AA (.300AVG 53 steals) and is pushing Michael Young potentially out of the position or out of town. Salty is a big time bat, who I think will end up as a solid 1b in the bigs. Beau Jones is 22, is a dominant reliever and also should make his MLB debut in 2009. They traded 4 top 10 prospects and a solid relief prospect for Tex and Mahay. And all 5 are expected to be in the bigs within 2 yrs of the deal. And all they got back was 2 picks for Mahay and Casey Kotchmann.

 

So picking this deal as one of the non-boatload deals was absolutely wrong. And thinking that a Berkman deal or a deal for a player of a similar caliber will be any different is just as misguided

 

Nice Jacko. I had forgotten about half of those guys.

[Dojji]

Haren was signed through 2012.

 

The FA class always looks fantastic from a couple years out before everyone who wants to stay with their current club gets re-upped.

[jacksonianmarch]

Webb is a FA in 2010 I think. But trading him right now is stupid. With him and Haren at the top of the rotation (and a couple more pretty decent young guys ready to step in)' date=' combined with all the up and coming position players they have, there's no reason they can't contend these next two years. If the D-Backs are awful this year and it becomes obvious that they won't contend in 2010, then I'd look into trading Webb.[/quote']

 

Webb will get dealt between now and the end of the 2010 season. If the DBags really wanted to get all they could get, they'd trade him this yr. I forsee a massive firesale in Arizona, one similar to the Marlin firesale after 1997. They have all the wrong things going for them. They have massive holes in their team. They have a few well paid players but their economics are flailing and the checks need to be written sooner or later. Hell, they are still paying backloaded and deferred contracts from their 2001 championship teams. Now Moorad leaves and nobody is wondering what's going on? I honestly think this season is the last hurrah in Arizona. If they dont get to the playoffs or are in shape for a playoff run at the deadline, I see a massive selloff. Kinda like when they sold off Schill in the offseason after 03 and then RJ in the offseason after 04. I expect something similar with Webb and Haren. And then I expect them going with kids in the rotation and selling off each of the young pieces in the lineup for something of value. If they get their finances in order, this team could be a solid, success sustaining team for yrs to come. But they gotta clear some seriously old contracts before they can commit to winning long term

[BSN07]

Webb will get dealt between now and the end of the 2010 season. If the DBags really wanted to get all they could get' date=' they'd trade him this yr. I forsee a massive firesale in Arizona, one similar to the Marlin firesale after 1997. They have all the wrong things going for them. They have massive holes in their team. They have a few well paid players but their economics are flailing and the checks need to be written sooner or later. Hell, they are still paying backloaded and deferred contracts from their 2001 championship teams. Now Moorad leaves and nobody is wondering what's going on? I honestly think this season is the last hurrah in Arizona. If they dont get to the playoffs or are in shape for a playoff run at the deadline, I see a massive selloff. Kinda like when they sold off Schill in the offseason after 03 and then RJ in the offseason after 04. I expect something similar with Webb and Haren. And then I expect them going with kids in the rotation and selling off each of the young pieces in the lineup for something of value. If they get their finances in order, this team could be a solid, success sustaining team for yrs to come. But they gotta clear some seriously old contracts before they can commit to winning long term[/quote']

 

This is what leads me to believe Webb could be available for the right players. A top pitching prospect, top position prospect, plus a couple low level guys with potential that won't need to be paid anything big for awhile could get Webb. Throw in another pitching prospect+1 and you might be able to bring back Montero in the deal if your the Sox.

 

Webb would be great on the Sox. And maybe with all the money the Sox saved on not getting Tex, they could extend all of Beckett, Webb and Lester.

 

 

Beckett

Webb

Lester

Dice-K(unless he is dealt, but doubtful)

 

For the next 5 years or so....

 

 

Druel....

[jacksonianmarch]

I dont think they are fielding offers right now BSN. I think the midseason mark will be when they decide to go for it or to bite the bullet and blow it all up. If the DBags are in the race for the west, then there is no harm in breaking out the dynamite next offseason.

[BSN07]

I dont think they are fielding offers right now BSN. I think the midseason mark will be when they decide to go for it or to bite the bullet and blow it all up. If the DBags are in the race for the west' date=' then there is no harm in breaking out the dynamite next offseason.[/quote']

 

Probably not, but if the Sox gave them enough of a wow factor, then maybe they consider it.

 

6 prospects, 3 of those being top 8 in the system. The other 3, lower level but high potential players. That might be tempting enough to move Webb and Montero.:dunno:

 

 

Of course, this does very little to add to the lineup.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Webb will get dealt between now and the end of the 2010 season. If the DBags really wanted to get all they could get' date=' they'd trade him this yr. I forsee a massive firesale in Arizona, one similar to the Marlin firesale after 1997. They have all the wrong things going for them. They have massive holes in their team. They have a few well paid players but their economics are flailing and the checks need to be written sooner or later. Hell, they are still paying backloaded and deferred contracts from their 2001 championship teams. Now Moorad leaves and nobody is wondering what's going on? I honestly think this season is the last hurrah in Arizona. If they dont get to the playoffs or are in shape for a playoff run at the deadline, I see a massive selloff. Kinda like when they sold off Schill in the offseason after 03 and then RJ in the offseason after 04. I expect something similar with Webb and Haren. And then I expect them going with kids in the rotation and selling off each of the young pieces in the lineup for something of value. If they get their finances in order, this team could be a solid, success sustaining team for yrs to come. But they gotta clear some seriously old contracts before they can commit to winning long term[/quote']

Hmmm... can't really dispute this.

[Redguitar985]

Let's talk about one other thing: How many times have you seen a guy who was such a stud that he was definitely going to get traded for a "boatload" of prospects actually get a loaded ship full of quality ballplayers headed the other way? What did Teixeira fetch the Rangers? If I recall correctly he fetched Saltalamacchia and maybe a minor league piece. That's a good catching prospect but it's certainly more if a dinghy than a boat. The deal to the Angels involved an average to somewhat above average 1B and IIRC a minor leaguer or two. Again, not exactly a tall ship of the line loaded with the best choice prospects.

 

The only two "boatload" deals we've seen recently have both involved the Orioles, and one was basically Adam Jones and 5 flavors of fail for Erik Bedard and the other was Luke Scott and 3 flavors of fail for Miguel Tejada. Neither deal was rewarding for the team who loaded up the ship and sailed it to Baltimore. Baltimore didn't get that much actual production out of their new players either in year 1. And for the most part that boat was crewed by maybe one high-ceiling guy and a bunch of schlubs with useful skillsets or utility players -- more Chris Carter than Lars Anderson to be sure.

 

Even the Manny for Bay blockbuster's passengers were more of the "talented disappoinments to their original club" category, which includes LaRoche from LA and Hansen from us.

 

Santana deal? Same story. Gomez has a great ceiling, but other than that Humber is a contact sort and Deolis Guerrez might not become anything at all.

 

In short for all the talk about large numbers of top prospects going back and multiple top prospects into the bargain, you don't see too many deals ever that actually do that, and we've got a deep enough farm system that we have no shortage of interesting second-tier players for a team to look at and take two of instead of Anderson, Buchholz, Masterson or Bowden.

 

The Yankees got Abreu for a steal from the Phillies in 06 too, didn't they?

[Dojji]

Yep. I blew it on the whole Teixeira to the Braves thing, but that's really the exception that proves the rule, and in the final analysis that was an extremely bad deal for Atlanta.

 

As a general rule asking for a guy's #1 prospect is a way to not quite close the door if they're prepared to blow you away but at the same time announce that you're really not interested in seeing your guy play for another baseball team. If a player is really on the block, his GM will be flexible in the asking price.

[Cocos Disciples]

Anyone think Howard could become available? (just thinking of new names)

 

Philly has a new GM, and Howard is due another huge raise in arbitration.:dunno:

 

This would be unwise. He's the kind of guy who declines quickly; he probably won't be a stud for long.

[BSN07]

This would be unwise. He's the kind of guy who declines quickly; he probably won't be a stud for long.

 

Yes when I was writing it I had some concerns he might have "big man" problems later on. He looks like a DH in the making to be honest. But that might help him pro long his career as well.

[Dojji]

I think we should have more "he's the freakin' face of the Phillidelphia Phillies" concerns about the possibility of acquiring Ryan Howard.

 

That and "if he was in the AL he'd be a DH" concerns. And "His OBP is nothing to write home about" concerns. On the whole I'd prefer Adam Dunn, who at least suggests some ability to play the field and especially left field.

[BSN07]

I think we should have more "he's the freakin' face of the Phillidelphia Phillies" concerns about the possibility of acquiring Ryan Howard.

 

That and "if he was in the AL he'd be a DH" concerns. And "His OBP is nothing to write home about" concerns. On the whole I'd prefer Adam Dunn, who at least suggests some ability to play the field and especially left field.

 

He's the face of the franchise until the $ he makes is too much for Philly want to dish out. The he will be playing elsewhere, by trade or FA.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Yankees got Abreu for a steal from the Phillies in 06 too' date=' didn't they?[/quote']

 

They were in a financial crisis. They dealt Thome prior to the yr for Roward. They dealt Abreu and Lidle to the yankees more for the financial relief. And it obviously didnt hurt them as they won the WS this yr. They made those deals so they could try and lock up Roward, which was unsuccessful. They were successful in resigning Utley. They let Burrell go and are gonna have to make a choice between signing Howard long term of Hamels depending on their financial status. I certainly can see Howard becoming available, but I dont expect it to be a salary dump since he's on a short term deal right now.

[example1]

He's the face of the franchise until the $ he makes is too much for Philly want to dish out. The he will be playing elsewhere' date=' by trade or FA.[/quote']

 

Howard gets his team anywhere between 5 and 9 wins per season, depending on how well he plays. For a team like Philadelphia who is likely an 89 win team without him, his production will make a difference between playoffs and no playoffs (94 to 98 wins). The difference there is something on the magnitude of $20 or 25m for the team, in terms of pay off for publicity, extra games, advertizing, etc., and it carries on for a few years. He might also be the difference between the team having a 1/8 chance of making the world series, which is another millions of dollars. Economically, there is little that should hold Philadelphia back from paying Howard to keep him.

 

He is also a key face to the franchise, and he projects to keep up his production for a number of years.

 

The question is whether Philadelphia sees itself as a continuing force in the NL East, or whether they see themselves having hit a peak and will be rebuilding soon. If they start rebuilding then Howard will quickly lose value, because his wins might only boost the team from 83 to 89 wins, which would mean they are not in the playoffs and they lose that extra revenue.

 

Given that Philadelphia has some great young talent like Utley and Hammels, and a number of other good players (Rollins, Myers, etc.,) I don't see them as a rebuilding team for quite awhile, especially in such a big market as Philadelphia.

 

Long story short, Howard doesn't make sense at all unless the Sox gave them "win-now" pieces AND "win later" pieces. Maybe they could get him for a deal involving Youkilis, Buchholz and Ellsbury, but who would want to make that deal? Not me, certainly.

 

I think if we're looking for potential trade deals we need to look at teams who either

a) believed they could compete when they signed the player to their current deal, but now clearly no longer can compete or

young players who are costing their team a reasonable amount but whose teams are languishing in the basement and could use considerably more pieces.

 

I think teams like A might include someone like Berkman, and B might include someone like Hanley.

 

I think that Marlin's only hope of making a considerable amount of money is to build up on young, good, cheap players. Hanley fits that description, but he's only one guy. I think that is why the Sox would even propose anything to them about Hanley. Only by getting a cheap, solid bunch of players does it make any sense for teams like Florida to jump into the FA market to get that "one last piece".

[example1]

By the way, has anyone else looked at the WARP numbers from this last year (DT Card, Baseball Prospectus)? They have Ellsbury listed as 6.4 wins-above replacement. I think this metric is an important one with regard to Ellsbury, as it takes fielding into account. Anyone who watched the Sox last year knows that Ellsbury was involved in a number of big fielding plays, and he seemed to have a pretty significant impact in a lot of games, despite his relatively poor offensive performance. Even I have been guilty of throwing his name around as a potential trade piece, but now I think that was hasty. 6.4 wins is not to be disregarded, especially considering he will likely contribute more with the bat in the future.

 

Ellsbury's VORP numbers make him look much less useful than his WARP numbers do.

[Redguitar985]

Howard gets his team anywhere between 5 and 9 wins per season, depending on how well he plays. For a team like Philadelphia who is likely an 89 win team without him, his production will make a difference between playoffs and no playoffs (94 to 98 wins). The difference there is something on the magnitude of $20 or 25m for the team, in terms of pay off for publicity, extra games, advertizing, etc., and it carries on for a few years. He might also be the difference between the team having a 1/8 chance of making the world series, which is another millions of dollars. Economically, there is little that should hold Philadelphia back from paying Howard to keep him.

 

He is also a key face to the franchise, and he projects to keep up his production for a number of years.

 

The question is whether Philadelphia sees itself as a continuing force in the NL East, or whether they see themselves having hit a peak and will be rebuilding soon. If they start rebuilding then Howard will quickly lose value, because his wins might only boost the team from 83 to 89 wins, which would mean they are not in the playoffs and they lose that extra revenue.

 

Given that Philadelphia has some great young talent like Utley and Hammels, and a number of other good players (Rollins, Myers, etc.,) I don't see them as a rebuilding team for quite awhile, especially in such a big market as Philadelphia.

 

Long story short, Howard doesn't make sense at all unless the Sox gave them "win-now" pieces AND "win later" pieces. Maybe they could get him for a deal involving Youkilis, Buchholz and Ellsbury, but who would want to make that deal? Not me, certainly.

 

I think if we're looking for potential trade deals we need to look at teams who either

a) believed they could compete when they signed the player to their current deal, but now clearly no longer can compete or

young players who are costing their team a reasonable amount but whose teams are languishing in the basement and could use considerably more pieces.

 

I think teams like A might include someone like Berkman, and B might include someone like Hanley.

 

I think that Marlin's only hope of making a considerable amount of money is to build up on young, good, cheap players. Hanley fits that description, but he's only one guy. I think that is why the Sox would even propose anything to them about Hanley. Only by getting a cheap, solid bunch of players does it make any sense for teams like Florida to jump into the FA market to get that "one last piece".

 

I was gonna say maybe Prince Fielder fits into your option A, but then he doesn't actually have a long-term deal right now. But I wonder what it would take for him. Probably too many prospects, and then Milwaukee isn't exactly out of contention even after losing Sabathia.

[BSN07]

By the way, has anyone else looked at the WARP numbers from this last year (DT Card, Baseball Prospectus)? They have Ellsbury listed as 6.4 wins-above replacement. I think this metric is an important one with regard to Ellsbury, as it takes fielding into account. Anyone who watched the Sox last year knows that Ellsbury was involved in a number of big fielding plays, and he seemed to have a pretty significant impact in a lot of games, despite his relatively poor offensive performance. Even I have been guilty of throwing his name around as a potential trade piece, but now I think that was hasty. 6.4 wins is not to be disregarded, especially considering he will likely contribute more with the bat in the future.

 

Ellsbury's VORP numbers make him look much less useful than his WARP numbers do.

 

I think Ellsbury has tons of potential. The only deal I even considered him in was the one for Hanley. Outside of Hanley, I'd rather see the team keep him. He had a decent season last year, considering it was his first in the Majors. I think some on here had higher expectations for him after his late 07 run. And that's why it seems he has a down year.

 

I see Ellsbury developing some power once he grows into his body some. I think he has the potential to be a Damon/Beltran type player(ceiling) offensivley. Throw in his Defense, and he has the chance of being a top CF in the league.

[jacksonianmarch]

I dont get everyone's love affair with Ellsbury. His potential is a high OBP speedster. Thats a nice piece to have. But he will never be a big power guy, so it isnt like he's a 5 tool player. We have a guy similar to him in offensive talent. And I wouldnt call him untouchable.