Hank: Joba needs to start now

[26 to 6]

You are the one that used the term "going right after him"' date=' in other words using his best stuff. His curveball is not his "best" stuff, his fastball is his best stuff.[/quote']

What are you saying??? Have you ever seen Joba Chamberlain's slider? Either way, going at him means being aggressive, not predictably throwing fastball after fastball.

[26 to 6]

It's not going out of the way to find something to complain about. Disregard the result and think about it with a dash of baseball acumen. He elected to pitch to the team's hottest hitter in a tie game in the 9th inning on the road with a runner in scoring position and first base open with a light hitting groundball machine on deck. You IBB the hot hitter 100 times out of 100 there. Hell' date=' when you consider how they are hitting right now, you even do it if Swisher was on deck, which tells you how my reaction would be to your hypothetical there at the end. Walking Crede was the move. Joe didn't make it.[/quote']

I'm just gonna back off now because this is getting ridiculous. I'm not arguing that walking Crede wasn't the best option, I even said that that was my initial thought, all I am saying is that I'm not going to crucify Joe and Joba for trying to be aggressive and go right after him. Honestly, I would expect nothing less from Joba, whether that be a good thing or a bad thing. Fact of the matter is he wasn't walked, he drove in the winning run, the game is over and the Yankees left Chicago after taking 2 of 3 from the WSox. They're in Cleveland right now, and that's where the focus should be. It's all hindsight now.

[ORS]

Who said you have to crucify him? You are admittedly giving him a pass for this +1 in the loss column when it is a decision he should be held accountable for. We don't live in a world of absolutes. It's not crucify or excuse. You can hold him accountable, ie add this to the negative side of the balance sheet, and still like him as a manager.

[BudLight]

What are you saying??? Have you ever seen Joba Chamberlain's slider? Either way' date=' going at him means being aggressive, not predictably throwing fastball after fastball.[/quote']

 

 

He threw 33 pitches in 1.1 innings last night. I wouldn't characterize that as really going right after anybody.

[26 to 6]

He threw 33 pitches in 1.1 innings last night. I wouldn't characterize that as really going right after anybody.

Because he wasn't perfect that means he wasn't being aggressive? Are you kidding me?

 

Have you ever watched Joba pitch routinely, outside of SUnday night baseball or Yankee/Red Sox games? If so, then you would know that Joba is arguably th most aggressive pitcher in baseball right now and goes right after EVERY hitter.

 

You can hold him accountable, ie add this to the negative side of the balance sheet, and still like him as a manager.

ok, fair enough.

[ORS]

(You Sox fans can try to argue this' date=' but to no avail. He has been simply the BEST)[/quote']

I'll bite...since Aug 1....

 

[table]Player|H/9|HR/9|(BB+HBP)/9|K/9

Joba|5.40|0.27|2.70|12.15

Papelbon|4.26|0.57|1.70|13.64[/table]

 

The HR, (BB+HBP), and K yield FIPs of....

 

Joba - 1.79

Papelbon - 1.56

[Jayhawk Bill]

Look' date=' I see all of your points, but I'm not going to get in an uproar because of a loss that got away from us in April. [/quote']

 

OK.

 

Joe Girardi threw away, I'd quickly estimate, between one and two tenths of a win with the decision to pitch to Crede, almost half of the total WPA added when Crede's hit won the game. I'd be in an uproar were Tito that numb; it's your choice not to get worked up, and it's better for your health. :thumbsup:

[BudLight]

Because he wasn't perfect that means he wasn't being aggressive? Are you kidding me?

 

Have you ever watched Joba pitch routinely, outside of SUnday night baseball or Yankee/Red Sox games? If so, then you would know that Joba is arguably th most aggressive pitcher in baseball right now and goes right after EVERY hitter.

 

 

ok, fair enough.

 

Does he not pitch aggressively on Sunday night baseball or against the Red Sox? You're very confusing. Not worth any more effort here.

[a700hitter]

Now you're just being silly. Do you really expect me to get into this? Who cares. It has no effect on me, only the players. If they want candy they can get it themselves, they're not confined to the clubhouse 24/7, 365. It's a non-issue for me. If the manager wants to put rules in place for his players, why is it necessarily a bad thing and who am I to question it? Do I think it's a little ridiculous, yeah sure, but I'm not going to get in an uproar over it. So what, he had ice cream machines removed and doesn't allow candy. Who cares. If those things were proven help the players play better then yeah, you can get me to bite on the topic, but they don't, so WHO CARES!? Now you're just being petty.

I am being petty? I started this whole conversation by asking Yankee fans how they felt about some of the decisions made last night by Girardi. I only offered my opinion about pitching to Crede which seemed to me to be an obvious error in judgment regardless of the outcome. I don't care if he makes his team take Castor Oil. I was wondering what you Yankee fans thought. Apparently, you are okay with it. I am a bit surprised. I would have thought that Yankee fans would have thought it silly, and maybe even petty, for a manager of rich adult athletes to ban candy in the clubhouse. As you point out, they can get it outside of the clubhouse. Syringes with fake B-12 was okay in clubhouses not that long ago, but now candy is banned. Can coffee be far behind.

[26 to 6]

Does he not pitch aggressively on Sunday night baseball or against the Red Sox? You're very confusing. Not worth any more effort here.

You completely missed my point. I was asking if you watch him regularly on a consistent basis or only on a prime-time or big stage? My question had nothing to do with varying efforts.

[26 to 6]

I am being petty? I started this whole conversation by asking Yankee fans how they felt about some of the decisions made last night by Girardi. I only offered my opinion about pitching to Crede which seemed to me to be an obvious error in judgment regardless of the outcome. I don't care if he makes his team take Castor Oil. I was wondering what you Yankee fans thought. Apparently' date=' you are okay with it. I am a bit surprised. I would have thought that Yankee fans would have thought it silly, and maybe even petty, for a manager of rich adult athletes to ban candy in the clubhouse. As you point out, they can get it outside of the clubhouse. Syringes with fake B-12 was okay in clubhouses not that long ago, but now candy is banned. Can coffee be far behind.[/quote']

When did I say I was ok with it?

 

Do I think it's a little ridiculous, yeah sure

All I said is that I don't care. It doesnt matter whether they do or don't have candy in my eyes. Who the f*** cares, that's Joe's decision, I don't have an opinion either way.

[26 to 6]

I'll bite...since Aug 1....

 

[table]Player|H/9|HR/9|(BB+HBP)/9|K/9

Joba|5.40|0.27|2.70|12.15

Papelbon|4.26|0.57|1.70|13.64[/table]

 

The HR, (BB+HBP), and K yield FIPs of....

 

Joba - 1.79

Papelbon - 1.56

I'm not as stat savvy as you and there fore don't know how to calculate stats from a particular date to now, but let me take a shot here.

 

First off, FIP's are an experimental stat, something you seem to be very drawn to as you're always throwing these unconventional stats mustered up by the likes of baseball prospectus out there for your analysis. I'll stay on more of the conventional side.

 

 

......actually, I give up haha. How about I rephrase that to "Joba has been the best SETUP man since ha came up last August 7th."

 

There we go...

 

Hat off

[a700hitter]

Yaba Daba Dayhoo is in for the Yankees.

[jacksonianmarch]

and he isnt too bad

[Jayhawk Bill]

First off' date=' FIP's are an experimental stat...[/quote']

 

 

xFIP is called "an experimental stat," even though it's been around a few years now, but DIPS goes back to 1999 and Tango invented FIP soon thereafter.

[Mr Crunchy]

i havent seen much of him outside the sox games and the playoffs from last year

do you know why?

HE HASNT PITCJHED 40 f***ING INNINGS YET

i do like him and yanks fans must love him and he does remind us a lot of paps

that said

paps has been in the sun since july 05 and has had 2.5 years of pitching under his belt including the 05 playoffs against the chisox and last years post season dominance.

off season heading into the 06 season the f/o brought in a cast of men who were to audition for the closers job and we were to stretch paps out into a starter because common sense dictates that 200ip is better than 85ip...

makes sense on paper but in practicw when you can turn the ball over to your man with 3-4-5 outs to go with no worries you have yourself a weapon that few possess.

since 1994 ny has been at the top or in the post season every year which is remarkable in the competetive al east as baltimore and toronto were competetive and the sox have been in 1st place each june since 98...

theres 1 common denominator on that staff

mo rivera

originally a setup man for wettland but a closer at heart

not many have the make up internally for that job and few have had long term success without injury or mental breakdowns

paps has it

he doesnt give a f*** if hes pitching at the breau bridge craw daddy festival in marerro louisiana or in yankee stadium ofr first place

complelty above it all

al the mad hungarian hrabowsky had that indifference

and i think joba has a little of that swagger that seperates the closers mind from that of the other members of the staff

im joe girardi and i have 2 starters breaking in this year and a s*** load of coin at my disposal next fall

joba stays put unless satan comes out of the ground and kisses girardi on the lips and suggests chamberlain get the starters role

[26 to 6]

 

xFIP is called "an experimental stat," even though it's been around a few years now, but DIPS goes back to 1999 and Tango invented FIP soon thereafter.

I'd say FIP was invented around 2001 or 2002 as they began being used for the 2003 season (So I imagine around 01-02, could be earlier though).

 

This is what I read at least, there could be a mistake. Or I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure.

[a700hitter]

Kennedy lowered his ERA to 8.57. 4 hits and 4 walks in 5 innings is nothing to crow about either.

[a700hitter]

Posada threw out one base runner, but his arm is shot. He's got no zip on the ball at all.

[Jayhawk Bill]

I'd say FIP was invented around 2001 or 2002 as they began being used for the 2003 season (So I imagine around 01-02, could be earlier though).

 

This is what I read at least, there could be a mistake. Or I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure.

 

Isn't 2001-02 soon after 1999 from the perspective of 2008? :dunno:

[Mr Crunchy]

he was patient and effectively on command when need be

wait

did mj get my password??

did curtis granderson inherited lf for the tribe

i aint seen a collasal f*** up like that since david ecksteins 280 foot triple in the 06 series

[a700hitter]

Thuuuh Yankees Loooose!!!

Thuuuh Yankees Loooose!!!

[Mr Crunchy]

9 inning heartbreaker too

im tellin ya

theres going to be a real s*** fight to make 92-95 wins in the al this year

[ORS]

Dorf on Baseball rules.

[das11209]

Girardi so far has been worse than I would have thought - wonder if Jackson misses Torrie already.

 

Why walk Pronk to get to Victor - who is the best hitter of the Guardians?

 

Melky trying to bunt?? Please do that again so I can have a good laugh.

[Mr Crunchy]

girardi had 1 season of 500 ball to hang his hat on and the ny medias ballwashing forced joe t out to bring in a sunnier face that didnt pick his nose with his middle finger 2 knckles deep

good

august 1st he's out with medical problems

[a700hitter]

girardi had 1 season of 500 ball to hang his hat on and the ny medias ballwashing forced joe t out to bring in a sunnier face that didnt pick his nose with his middle finger 2 knckles deep

good

august 1st he's out with medical problems

He fell short of .500 a nd finshed 4th out of 5 ahead of the hapless Nats. I don't think he'll need medical leave as his health is very good. He follows a strict lowfat diet.

[Mr Crunchy]

low fat diets dont help nervous breakdowns and depression

not that i am aware of anyway

lets refer to the medical people and see if we can determine whats what

[jacksonianmarch]

Couple things.

 

I like Girardi more for the confidence he tries to place in his pitchers. He allows his starters to go deeper than Torre ever would. But today was brutal IMO. If he insisted on leaving Joba and Mo out of it until there was a lead, then he should have used the vets in the later innings. Ohlie got torched his last time around and throwing a rookie in a do or die ninth is not a way to ease him back into things. Now, instead of building confidence, his is shot.

[a700hitter]

Couple things.

 

I like Girardi more for the confidence he tries to place in his pitchers. He allows his starters to go deeper than Torre ever would. But today was brutal IMO. If he insisted on leaving Joba and Mo out of it until there was a lead, then he should have used the vets in the later innings. Ohlie got torched his last time around and throwing a rookie in a do or die ninth is not a way to ease him back into things. Now, instead of building confidence, his is shot.

Torre always went to his horses when he smelled a win. He left a lot pitchers on the side of the road after he ruined their arms and careers. Quantrill, Sturtze, Gordon, and Proctor are just a few. He was always careful to take care of Mo because he was the money. When he burned out a guy, the GM went to get more middle relief for him. It was because of his pattern of use (abuse?) of the bullpen that the Yankees had to implement "Joba Rules" to keep Torre from abusing him. This was a winning formula for Torre. Go for the throat when you smell blood, and more often than not, he won. Girardi is willing to sacrifice today for tomorrow, and that would be okay if he had a dominant team, but he doesn't.