Reactions to Clemens on 60 Minutes

[ARod2212]

This is the disposition against McNamee in the defamation suit.

 

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/080107/mlb_clemens.pdf

 

Pretty clear, unequivocal statements by Clemens. Between that and the phone conversation, McNamee is not in a good spot right now.

[BudLight]

We can't believe Roger Clemens because he is an egotistical prick who turned his back on Boston and because he is in his 40's now must have been on steroids to continue pitching this long.

 

We must believe McNamee because he only gives lethal doses of GHB to women at 4:00 in the morning in a swimming pool at a team hotel. He's a stand-up guy!!

 

I don't know who to believe, so I'll just wait to see what comes out in court.

[Mr Crunchy]

i believe clemens

of course i believe clemens,inspite of him leaving the sox to pitch closer to his family in texas and for a contender i have no reason not to believe him now..

 

my god

there are people who will believe him but none have their own teeth

[a700hitter]

This is the disposition against McNamee in the defamation suit.

 

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/080107/mlb_clemens.pdf

 

Pretty clear, unequivocal statements by Clemens. Between that and the phone conversation, McNamee is not in a good spot right now.

I disagree. I think Clemens shot himself in the foot by playing the surreptitiously taped conversation. One thing that tape does for certain. It disarms Clemen's counsel of the defense that McNamee had an axe to grind with Clemens or that he did it out of malice. McNamee was clearly and genuinely upset that he gave up his friend Roger, but in the end he was not willing to go to jail, so he told the truth. Clemens did it without any doubt. Are we to believe that he had no idea what his good buddy Andy was doing? The three of them were tight friends. Clemens introduced McNamee to Andy. Are we to believe that Roger is so naive about steroids that he thinks steroids can grow a third ear or make you be able to pull a tractor with your teeth? What was that all about? Does he think everyone is stupid? Also, he admits taking painkillers and viox like skittles. No one in there right mind would think that doesn't have some sort of negative effect on your body. Athletes do it, because they need it to compete even though the negative effects of long term use of large doses of anti-inflammatories. Clemens said he would never do anything to hurt his body, but he admits to "eating" lots of medications. Does anyone else see the contradiction? That is the way Clemens is. He makes it up as he goes along, regardless of how stupid it makes him look. I am glad he doesn't give a rat's ass about the HOF, because he will not get there in 5 years or possibly ever. At least he will not have to battle over the cap on his plaque.

[das11209]

You know about the second shooter - have you heard of the second tape and why Raja won't talk about it?

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2008/01/08/2008-01-08_brian_mcnamees_lawyers_demand_release_of.html

[Mr Crunchy]

i didnt hear clemens ask mcnamee for a retraction in that 17 minute phone call

anyone else??

are we missing something??

clemens is on the phone with this guy for 17 minutes and doesnt scream holler threaten or demand a retraction??

this is the guy who was throwing sandwich rolls at george kimball and the guy who threw a broken bat at piazza

why didnt he attack the trainer and demand a retraction??

[das11209]

Mcnamee fights over the taped conversation:

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2008/01/08/2008-01-08_brian_mcnamees_lawyers_demand_release_of.html

[a700hitter]

If Clemens has nothing to hide, they should make the tape public.

[das11209]

Dropped call commercial between Pettitte and Clemens:

 

Clemens : Andy - I heard this ******* Mcnamee is telling the truth - what do you think we should do?

 

Dropped call:

 

Andy: Roger - I feel guilty about taking the HGH - I think I am gonna come clean. I think you should do that also.

 

Clemens : Yeah - I was so mad I was speechless too - let's just deny everything and sue his ass.

[a700hitter]

i didnt hear clemens ask mcnamee for a retraction in that 17 minute phone call

anyone else??

are we missing something??

clemens is on the phone with this guy for 17 minutes and doesnt scream holler threaten or demand a retraction??

this is the guy who was throwing sandwich rolls at george kimball and the guy who threw a broken bat at piazza

why didnt he attack the trainer and demand a retraction??

He never accuses him of lying, because that would be slander. His attorney no doubt coached him not to call him a liar. Bonds must be very interested in watching this. If Clemens succeeds, it will open the doors of the HOF for Bonds, and if Clemens goes down in flames, Bonds is no worse off than he already is.

[rician blast]

clemens is on the phone with this guy for 17 minutes and doesnt scream holler threaten or demand a retraction??

 

Exactly...which is why we know this was a set-up, looking for Mcnamee to say something, anything that could be distorted or taken out of context to incriminate him. My guess is Raja was well-coached regarding the conversation..he couldn't say "how could you lie" because Mcamee could have replied "I didn't."

 

Kind of a game of cat and mouse (or rat, perhaps), with Clemens being the pompous feline.

 

Hmmmm...speaking of cats, I wonder if Roger will commit "purrrrr-jury?"

[BudLight]

McNamee initiated the phone call to Clemens. Who was trying to set-up who here.

[das11209]

McNamee initiated the phone call to Clemens. Who was trying to set-up who here.

 

Clemens of course. It is perfectly legal to record a conversation if you are receiving a call - but illegal if you initiate the call - go figure.

[BudLight]

Clemens of course. It is perfectly legal to record a conversation if you are receiving a call - but illegal if you initiate the call - go figure.

 

 

So Clemens and his lawyers somehow baited McNamee to make this phone call??? Conspiracy theory?? Akin to the conspiracy theory that Clemens' legal team states existed when McNamee was being questioned (threatened) by federal agents regarding his testimony?

[das11209]

So Clemens and his lawyers somehow baited McNamee to make this phone call??? Conspiracy theory?? Akin to the conspiracy theory that Clemens' legal team states existed when McNamee was being questioned (threatened) by federal agents regarding his testimony?

 

I don't know if they had a bait - for some reason they were ready to record the call. Clemens was well prepped for the call. He pressed his trainer but remained quite to the question ' What could I have done'.

 

Just stating facts - merely playing the phone call tells me that Clemens was trying to use it to his advantage. I don't see how Mcnamee was baiting Clemens into anything with the phone call. I don't think he knew that the call was recorded till the news conference.

 

As usual - feel free to draw your own conclusion from facts - this is America. I have seen in the past that the justice system and public opinion irrationaly base the decision on trivial parameters like how a person dresses up in courtroom or is he well groomed. People make their judgement if someone is remorsefull from 'did he cry on camera' or someone if telling the truth by 'did he shout enough and looked angry at his accusitions?' I don't get it - but that's the way it is.

[BudLight]

das

 

I'm just enjoying the spirited conversation here on this issue at large. It is entertaining to read everyone's conclusions of the conversations, the news conferences, the lawsuit, etc., etc.

 

As I stated before, I don't know if Clemens or McNamee is telling the truth, time will tell, hopefully. It's a great way to pass time though until spring training camps open!!

 

I will say though, if it comes down to a matter of money in determining the outcome of this, Clemens will bury this guy. Sadly, that is how some cases are won or lost in America (O.J., movie stars, etc.)

[a700hitter]

I am amused by TV and Radio commentary that says there is no evidence. It just one persons word against another. Eyewitness testimony is very strong evidence. If Kato had seen OJ kill Nicole and Ron, he'd be in jail today. On TV and Radio, I have heard this referred to as hearsay. Testimony by an eyewitness to the acts in question is not hearsay. Eyewitness testimony by someone that knows you is particularly strong. He had no motive to get Clemens, unless it can be shown that he was pressured to name Clemens. He was pressured to tell the truth, and he feels bad that he turned in a friend, which makes the evidence more compelling. The investigators wanted full and honest disclosure from him. They certainly didn't want him making false accusations. It's not like this is a murder case where the cops are under pressure to arrest and convict someone.

 

Clemens is 100% guilty. I guess to paraphrase Johnny Cochrane: "Give me one Clemen's fan on the jury and I'll get him off."

[das11209]

das

 

I will say though, if it comes down to a matter of money in determining the outcome of this, Clemens will bury this guy. Sadly, that is how some cases are won or lost in America (O.J., movie stars, etc.)

 

I could not have said it better - our legal system is royally f***ed up. I understand why - because the lawyers will have to make millions with every loophole of the justice system that they can exploit. Where I have a real problem is with public perception. In the court of public opinion - we start just by deciding someone is guilty or not and try to allign the facts so as to support our supposition. If Jeter is implicated in this - the Yankee fans will just make a decision that he could not have done this and spin the facts to support his innocense. And nothing against Yankee fans - Red Sox fans will probably do the same with Papi. Very few people will actually look in the fact and think 'Well I really love this dude - but looks like he is screwed'.

[a700hitter]

Hopefully, this will be Jim Rice's day. Clemens can screw himself some other day.

[das11209]

Nice article on ESPN about Rogers claims :

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3185451&sportCat=mlb

[das11209]

Hopefully' date=' this will be Jim Rice's day. Clemens can screw himself some other day.[/quote']

 

Unfortunately he could not make it - I think he will next year though.

[ARod2212]

The call was made because McNamee's 10 year old son was sick, and he emailed Clemens about it. Clemens emailed him back, then the call was made.

 

The call was legally recorded because in the states on New York and Texas only one party must consent to the recording of the call, in this case Clemens.

 

Clemens couldn't come out and say "tell them I didn't take steroids." That would be witness tampering. Clemens was definitely advised by his lawyer to be very cautious with his responses, so he doesn't do anything illegal. McNamee looks bad if you listen to the convo. He never said Clemens did take steroids, which is really not good for his side.

[a700hitter]

The call was made because McNamee's 10 year old son was sick, and he emailed Clemens about it. Clemens emailed him back, then the call was made.

 

The call was legally recorded because in the states on New York and Texas only one party must consent to the recording of the call, in this case Clemens.

 

Clemens couldn't come out and say "tell them I didn't take steroids." That would be witness tampering. Clemens was definitely advised by his lawyer to be very cautious with his responses, so he doesn't do anything illegal. McNamee looks bad if you listen to the convo. He never said Clemens did take steroids, which is really not good for his side.

He would not have been tampering if he had asked him: "why did you lie about me taking steroids?"

[TedWilliams101]

He's guilty. Period. No innocent man would say "I want SOMEONE to tell the truth". He would have been angry and asked "Why did you lie about me? Why did you say I took steroids when I didn't?" And when McNamee kept asking "What do you want me to do", Roger should have said "Tell the truth". Instead he just kept quiet and continued to bounce around "Someone tell the truth".

 

None of that would be witness tampering. Tampering with a witness is making them change their story. Thats it.

 

I can't believe how big of an ******* Clemen's is. Just admit it and move on.

[a700hitter]

Defamation lawsuits are no joke. For a statement to be defamatory it needs to be specific, untrue, published to a third party, and most importantly- the prosecution needs to prove damages.

Clemens probably destroyed any chance at winning a defamation action against McNamee when he played the tape. As a public figure, he must prove that the statements were untrue and that they were made with malice. Showing that the statements were untrue would be difficult enough, but after that tape it is obvious that McNamee did not have an Axe to grind with Roger and that he felt very bad about giving him up. The only shot Clemens would have had was to try to establish McNamee as a disgruntled former employee with a grudge against Clemens. The defamation suit is dead. I am calling it here and now. McNamee would have to state that he was told that he didn't give up Roger he'd go to jail.

[Thumper]

I'm starting to think what went wrong... Clemens's really didn't do it. It just so happens that during his phone conversation with Mcnamee the call was dropped because ironically, Clemens doesn't have Verizon... I think it was something like:

 

McNamee: What do you want me to do? Go to jail?

Clemens (Unheard): I want you to come clean, and tell them I didn't use steroids, you know I didn't! I know I didn't. And if you keep acting like I did do it, I'm taking you to court for slander!

McNamee: Rog, what do you want me to do?

 

Silly endorsements!

[Soxfan1]

That would be an amazing advertisement for At&T

[das11209]

From NY Times - pretty much what we discussed. I will be interested to see the arguments from the Yankee fans from this.

 

No interviewer, not Mike Wallace of “60 Minutes” or any of the reporters who attended the Clemens news conference Monday, asked him if he had prescriptions for lidocaine and injectable B12. If he didn’t, he used them illegally. If he did have a prescription, why didn’t he have the doctor who prescribed them give him the shots? If not the doctor, why not the team trainer? Why his personal trainer?

 

Many other questions could be raised. For example, when Brian McNamee, his former trainer, asked him repeatedly during their telephone conversation last Friday, “What do you want me to do?” why didn’t Clemens tell him: “Just tell the truth: I didn’t take steroids.”

 

The problem is McNamee might have responded, “I have told the truth, Roger, and you know it.”

 

In the view of a New York criminal defense lawyer, who spoke on the condition of anonymity: “If you are purer than the driven snow, you fear no response. You ask only for an honest and truthful exoneration.”

 

Exoneration or conviction could come next Wednesday at a scheduled Congressional hearing. If Clemens and McNamee stick to their stories, one of them will be lying under oath. The key to the conflict is Andy Pettitte.

 

Pettitte, former teammate and workout partner of Clemens, has admitted using human growth hormone with McNamee, as the Mitchell report said. Pettitte’s admission bolsters McNamee’s credibility.

 

Clemens said he had no knowledge of what Pettitte was doing, but that is difficult to believe. In their relationship, Pettitte was the little brother, the puppy dog, who followed big brother and copied everything he did. There seems to be no way Pettitte would have used H.G.H. without discussing it with his role model.

 

Pettitte would also very likely be in position to know if Clemens used steroids and H.G.H. Players generally might not have stood around the water cooler and talked about steroids, but Clemens and Pettitte were so close — Clemens aborted a brief retirement to join Pettitte in Houston — it would defy common sense to think one didn’t know what the other was doing. If Pettitte appears before the Congressional committee and is asked what he knows about Clemens, if he knows, he will be faced with telling the truth or lying. I don’t think he would lie, not a guy who so readily admitted he did what the Mitchell report said he did.

 

[das11209]

Rare to see NY post and NY times on the same page ( no pun intended). More media consipiracy against Roger?

 

Members of the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee are preparing to grill Clemens a week from today and they, like many in the general public, are having a tough time believing the pitcher never used steroids, as his former trainer alleges.

 

“I'll be frank with you, I don't know what to believe," Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-Md.) said. “I'm a lawyer. Brian (McNamee) is in an interesting situation. As I understand it, the feds said to him tell the truth and you going to be OK. You lie, you got a major problem. I'm trying to figure out why would he be lying. It doesn't make any sense at all."

 

At his Monday press conference, Clemens played a 17-minute tape of a phone conversation he secretly recorded with McNamee, his trainer of 10 years. The hope of Clemens and his attorneys was the tape would sway public opinion in his direction but most people, including congressmen, seem unmoved.

 

“I still can't figure out why he played that tape," Rep. Mark Souder (R-Ind.) said. “It was unconvincing."

 

[das11209]

Sports and the law from SI.com - a lawyer's take:

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/michael_mccann/01/07/clemens.presser/index.html