Chamberlain to Start Season in 'Pen?

[BoSox21]

ESPN's Buster Olney said he heard Joba Chamberlain could open next season in the bullpen in an effort to limit his innings total for the season.

 

If the Yankees don't think Chamberlain is ready to throw 200 innings, then two months in the pen, followed by a move to the rotation, might be just the thing to see that he's strong in September and October. Still, it'd also be a good way to get him hurt if they don't handle the move back to the rotation correctly. For what little it's worth, the Yankees have said all winter that they're planning on starting Chamberlain off in the rotation next year. If that doesn't happen, Ian Kennedy would likely be the fifth starter.

 

Rotoworld

[26 to 6]

I guess I can't be completely against this, considering how good he was last year. Although I was curious to see how he did in spring training preparing as a starter. This does make our rotation a little less cramped though.

[example1]

The Yankees seem to be all over the place right now. NewStein and Cash can't agree on whether or not they're willing to move Hughes for Santana? Waffling? Chamberlain is in the pen, no, he's in the rotation. A-Rod? no-A-Rod. A-rod.

 

For all the s*** the Sox FO got the past few years for their various decisions, I can't see how this scenario is any better. Especially with a new manager coming on board.

[26 to 6]

It's not. Hank is a mess. I like his enthusiasm and attitude, but he doesn't know baseball. When Cash negotiated his deal with George, it was included that HE would be the baseball man. I think it's disrespectful of Hank towards not only Ca$h, but George as well. In the article I posted in the Prior thread yesterday, Hank has a quote in there that's along the lines of "in the end the final decision will be mine, i'm the owner" regarding Santana. That erks me. I hope we dont have to witness the 1980's all over again. Hopefully little Stein learned something from Big Stein's mistakes.

[rician blast]

This does make our rotation a little less cramped though.

 

Yeah, you guys are loaded with quality starting pitching.

[example1]

It's not. Hank is a mess. I like his enthusiasm and attitude' date=' but he doesn't know baseball. When Cash negotiated his deal with George, it was included that HE would be the baseball man. I think it's disrespectful of Hank towards not only Ca$h, but George as well. In the article I posted in the Prior thread yesterday, Hank has a quote in there that's along the lines of "in the end the final decision will be mine, i'm the owner" regarding Santana. That erks me. I hope we dont have to witness the 1980's all over again. Hopefully little Stein learned something from Big Stein's mistakes.[/quote']

 

To even discuss how one day he and Cashman wake up thinking they want to do the deal, and other days they disagree, and some days he wants it and other days Cashman wants it, and some days they are willing to trade Hughes and others they are not.... totally disorganized.

 

For all the blustering and complaining people do here talking about specifics of potential deals for the Sox, at least there seems to be someone intelligent running the ship. As far as organizational philosophy goes, Phil Hughes should have some quantifiable value that they are working from. Whether that means they see him as a 20 WinShare pitcher for the next 3 years on average and then 27 on average the few years afterwords, or they see him as much less than that, it really doesn't matter. What is funny from my end is that they appear to have said "Joba Chamberlain is not available for Johan Santana, but Phil Hughes may be." I see their values as the opposite, with Hughes being the guy with the higher upside and Chamberlain being the stopper/reliever/closer of the future. In most cases, the ace SP is more valuable than the RP.

 

If the Twins were willing to do Santana for Chamberlain and Melky, I would do it right away. In this case, though, it appears that the Yankees are so desperate for a player that the fans can latch onto (despite their huge spending on glorified stars like A-Rod and Abreu, who have little popularity overall) that they have labeled an otherwise tradeable piece, who may never have higher upside, untouchable. Weird.

 

What matters is that they have some measure by which they consistently guage players and which they use to project the future value of these players.

 

Hearing that they are just haphazard about what they are willing to offer makes me wonder who is really going on there, and makes me hope that Stein wakes up one of these days and just says "Screw it, I LIKED it when my dad used to assert himself and force Cashman to get big name players... spend whatever it takes, get us Johan Santana". Lord knows that Theo and Co wouldn't do any such thing at this point (or ever, as far as I can tell).

[26 to 6]

Yeah' date=' you guys are loaded with quality starting pitching.[/quote']

Considering Joba would step in and be the best arm in the bullpem, it allows the 5 rotation spots to go to Wang, Andy, Hughes, Kennedy, Mussina. That way Moose doesn't have to pitch in long relief, a role that I truly believe he would not do well in. I still personally think Kennedy should start the seaosn at AAA, but indications are that he's expected to fill one of the starting spots on the big club. This in turn allows the likes of Igawa, Wright, Rasner, etc. to win over a spot as the long man. Eliminate starting pitching jam, solidify the setup role, give another young guy a shot in the pen. All works out IMO.

 

Hearing that they are just haphazard about what they are willing to offer makes me wonder who is really going on there, and makes me hope that Stein wakes up one of these days and just says "Screw it, I LIKED it when my dad used to assert himself and force Cashman to get big name players... spend whatever it takes, get us Johan Santana". Lord knows that Theo and Co wouldn't do any such thing at this point (or ever, as far as I can tell).

That would be a terrible scenario. Hopefully BIG Stein wakes up from his non-existant state and tells Little Stein to easo off the GM, wright checks, and handle business operations. Leave the baseball to Ca$h, Stick, Opp, Newman, etc.

[TheKilo]

Considering Joba would step in and be the best arm in the bullpem' date=' it allows the 5 rotation spots to go to Wang, Andy, Hughes, Kennedy, Mussina. That way Moose doesn't have to pitch in long relief, a role that I truly believe he would not do well in. I still personally think Kennedy should start the seaosn at AAA, but indications are that he's expected to fill one of the starting spots on the big club. This in turn allows the likes of Igawa, Wright, Rasner, etc. to win over a spot as the long man. Eliminate starting pitching jam, solidify the setup role, give another young guy a shot in the pen. All works out IMO..[/quote']

 

That rotation doesn't exactly strike fear into the hearts of MLB hitters and RSN.

[Soxfan1]

As a Sox fan, I hope they throw him in the rotation in a sink or swim situation. Sure the guy is intimidating and a great pitcher, but how long can he stay intimidating because it's a huge part of his pitching strategy and he's going to have to go around 6-8 innings a night.

 

But this would be best for them in my opinion. The only negative is converting his arm to pitch more innings a night.

[26 to 6]

That rotation doesn't exactly strike fear into the hearts of MLB hitters and RSN.

It's whatever. That's what we have to work with. I'm trying to be optimistic, how would you like me to feel about the pitching staff?

[YAZMAN]

It's whatever. That's what we have to work with. I'm trying to be optimistic' date=' how would you like me to feel about the pitching staff?[/quote']

 

No offense, but it read like Riv is ghostwriting your posts.

[TheKilo]

It's whatever. That's what we have to work with. I'm trying to be optimistic' date=' how would you like me to feel about the pitching staff?[/quote']

 

Realistic.

[26 to 6]

You don't think, realistically, that a rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, Moose, Kennedy is pretty solid? Granted it's not the Red Sox rotation, but I think these guys can certainly get the job done. Look at the names in the Rockies rotation last year and look where they took them. You wan't be to be realistic or pessimistic?

[a700hitter]

You don't think' date=' realistically, that a rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, Moose, Kennedy is pretty solid? Granted it's not the Red Sox rotation, but I think these guys can certainly get the job done. Look at the names in the Rockies rotation last year and look where they took them. You wan't be to be realistic or pessimistic?[/quote']It has the potential to be solid, but IMO Moose is cooked. You need the rookies to step up. If I were you, I'd be very concerned about the rotation, because the rookies have not proved that they can take the ball every fifth day and be effective. You are pinning your hopes on the unknown. As a Sox fan I did that for many years. If this guy is good and if this guy comes back from injury and so forth. If you need the "ifs" to happen in order to have a good year, you are in bad shape, because more often than not the question marks don't answer your needs.

[26 to 6]

Despite Buster's report that the Yanks would use Joba in the bullpen, the Yankees still intend to use him as a starter.

 

rotoworld

[Mr Crunchy]

the gnats got to joba last year when it mattered

that was great tv,it was better than the gross out show where the guy would drink 500 y ear old egg nog or eat out of a s***** diaper but anyways,

hes probably seeing them every time he looks at a baseball these days

ahhh the bugs....ahhhhhhhhhhhh i cant see ....please help me....

 

hopefully he goes into the pen and girardi has him burnt out by august.

they need their starters to show up this year or this kid will be at 100ip before the allstar break....pette and wang are decent,if not at least consistant,hughes and kennedy are very questionable yet promising.. they''ll have to shine for the yanks to have a pop,mussina is a broken man,he should go teach aloof and arrogance 101 somewhere where pretentious deep thinkers congregate,maybe over at leslie college or perhaps amherst is a good fit..

he cant pitch anymore

the yanks are 1 stud arm away from being as good as we are on paper but they do have alex rodriguez,the man who will bring your rising star back to earth every october it seems.

[jacksonianmarch]

Crunch. Despite reports from outside news organizations, the yankees have no intentions of having Joba in the pen. They have not waivered from having Joba start. The question is, where will he start.

 

The most recent news is that Cashman and Newman both agreed that all 3 kids will have innings caps.

 

Joba last yr hit 135IP. He will most likely be capped around 170IP

 

Hughes hit 150 in 2006, but was short due to injury last yr. He will most likely be capped at 170IP as well.

 

Kennedy threw 165 last yr and is on pace for 200IP this yr.

 

The other news is that, at least out of the gate, Mussina will start the yr as the #5. And while that is going on, Joba might be the odd man out in Scranton. Due to the fact that the yankees can control his innings in AAA, the season starts 3 weeks later, and eventually Moose will need replacing, this idea works.

[Mr Crunchy]

i understand

my concerns for my yank friends will be when theyre 8 out on 6-1 with chamberlain in columbus being brought up to go every 5th day because phil hughes isnt all that and kennedy is a cross between kei igawa and carl pavano

[26 to 6]

If one of the 3 young guys were to have to start the season in Scranton, I really think it should be Kennedy. Joba was too good, and became too much of a fan favorite last year to start him in AAA this year.

[jacksonianmarch]

i understand

my concerns for my yank friends will be when theyre 8 out on 6-1 with chamberlain in columbus being brought up to go every 5th day because phil hughes isnt all that and kennedy is a cross between kei igawa and carl pavano

 

We shall see. Hughes is the goods and he showed it to end the yr. We'll see who shows up. And I totally think you are selling Kennedy short. We will see.

[jacksonianmarch]

If one of the 3 young guys were to have to start the season in Scranton' date=' I really think it should be Kennedy. Joba was too good, and became too much of a fan favorite last year to start him in AAA this year.[/quote']

 

Kennedy is the last of the 3 I'd start in the minors solely because his innings cap will be set at 200 this yr. He can theoretically throw a full MLB season while both Hughes and Joba will need their innings garnished.

[26 to 6]

How come Kennedy's is higher compared to Hughes and Joba? I hope he's ready and can be productive in the bigs..

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

How come Kennedy's is higher compared to Hughes and Joba? I hope he's ready and can be productive in the bigs..

 

I'm guessing Kennedy's cap is higher because he's hasn't been set back by injuries like Joba and Hughes have. Hughes would probably be capped at 200 this year if he didn't pull his hammy, because I believe his cap last year was ~175. Joba had tendonitis in college in '06 that limited him to 89.1 innings, which is why he only pitched a total of 112.1 innings last year.

[26 to 6]

Right. The Yankees have always been ultra-conservative with Hughes's innings coming up, so I figured the same would be true this year, didn't even take into account his injuries though. I don't know what it is, but I just have a pessimistic feeling about Kennedy. That's why I tend to be down on the idea of him starting the season out in the bigs, but this is a big factor, especially considering our nice rich bullpen featuring the likes of Kyle Farnsworth and LaTroy Hawkins!

[jacksonianmarch]

I'm guessing Kennedy's cap is higher because he's hasn't been set back by injuries like Joba and Hughes have. Hughes would probably be capped at 200 this year if he didn't pull his hammy' date=' because I believe his cap last year was ~175. Joba had tendonitis in college in '06 that limited him to 89.1 innings, which is why he only pitched a total of 112.1 innings last year.[/quote']

 

It is solely based upon their prior yr's workload and typically you dont want to increase that by more than 50 in one season, ideally you would like to keep it at 30. Joba threw 135 IP last yr. Hughes only threw 110, but he threw 150 the yr before and his decrease was due to a non-arm ailment. So he should be on track for what he was supposed to throw last yr (about 170 or a 20IP increase from his 06 workload). Kennedy threw 165 IP last yr and going by the formula, he should be on pace for 200IP.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

It is solely based upon their prior yr's workload and typically you dont want to increase that by more than 50 in one season' date=' ideally you would like to keep it at 30. Joba threw 135 IP last yr. Hughes only threw 110, but he threw 150 the yr before and his decrease was due to a non-arm ailment. So he should be on track for what he was supposed to throw last yr (about 170 or a 20IP increase from his 06 workload). Kennedy threw 165 IP last yr and going by the formula, he should be on pace for 200IP.[/quote']

 

Where do you see Joba throwing 135 innings last year? By my count he had 24 IP in the majors and 88.1 in the minors. Are you including winter league or something?

[jacksonianmarch]

you are correct. My mistake. So the fact that he threw essentially 115IP including playoffs has him set for 150, not 170. Another reason why he should start the yr in AAA.

[26 to 6]

I see your point, but don't you think we could use him in at the Major League leve;? And whether he's in Scranton or the Bronx, he's still gonna be pitching innings. So I don't understand the reasoning.

[Gom]

As a Sox fan, I hope they throw him in the rotation in a sink or swim situation. Sure the guy is intimidating and a great pitcher, but how long can he stay intimidating because it's a huge part of his pitching strategy and he's going to have to go around 6-8 innings a night.

 

But this would be best for them in my opinion. The only negative is converting his arm to pitch more innings a night.

The truth of the matter is that the trio of Hughes, Kennedy, and Chamberlain could be the next Smoltz, Glavine, and Maddux.

 

Now to hope these pitchers turn into them is a stretch. However, that is the hopes the Yankees have for them. Hughes 1.28 whip is the highest of the three.

 

Now, do I expect them to each win 20 games? Not any time soon, if ever. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Wang or Pettitte was our worst starting pitcher next year. They could pan out to be the Braves trio.

 

They could also turn out to be Generation K from the Mets. Isringhausen, Pusipher, and Wilson. We know how they turned out.

 

I'm just glad we got rid of Torre. This would have been Prior and Wood all over again.

[jacksonianmarch]

It certainly is intriguing. I just hope they are able to keep the innings down somewhat. If Chamberlain doubles his innings this yr, we might as well book the OR.