Should Beckett Start WS Game 4?

[YAZMAN]

It is all about oxygen delivery. There is a lower partial pressure of oxygen at that altitude' date=' which leads to less 02 saturation and less Oxygen delivery. And when you are pitching, you are having 150 or so short, powerful bursts that require precise timing. The muscles get more tired at the higher altitude due to increased demand with less supply. I am not denying your experience, you just might have not noticed the difference. Some do, some dont. But the science is there to support me.[/quote']

 

Now Dr. Beeper, surely in med school they taught you the difference between aerobic and anaerobic energy delivery. Pitching is an anaerobic activity, short bursts of explosive activity, primarily utilizing ATP. While there is an oxidative aspect to the body's recharging of the byproduct ADP back into ATP, it is not an aerobic metabolism. The intensity of the aerobic demand on the pitcher's body at that elevation is not compromised by difference in O2. Recovery between pitches and between innings is not significantly different at that altitude as it is at sea level - especially when it's a sea of dirty water.

 

My guess is that any noted gasping would revolve around your fading argument in this thread.

[redsoxrules]

If we go 1-2 (or worse 0-3)' date=' I would like to see Beckett in game 4 and 7. If we go 2-1, then game 5.[/quote']

 

what?

 

theres no way that beckett pitches 1-4-7 , he would have to pitch game 4 and 7 on just 3 days rest , so NO , beckett is starting 2 games , thats it

[ksushi]

what?

 

theres no way that beckett pitches 1-4-7 , he would have to pitch game 4 and 7 on just 3 days rest , so NO , beckett is starting 2 games , thats it

 

Actually, if he went on 3 days rest for Game 4 he would be on full rest if there were a 7th game.

[rician blast]

According to studies (see link below) Viagra has been shown to improve athletic performance at high altitudes, due to its vasodilation tendencies.

 

If true could it be put to work in the WS? Will the Sox be bringing more "WOOD" to the plate than just their Louisville Sluggers? Whatever the case, it's a stiff challenge for the Sox and and they'll certainly rise to the occasion.

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/06/060624120556.htm

 

Kidding aside, based on what I've read, the altitude should have minimal impact, if any. These aren't marathon runners or cyclists we're talking about.

[redsoxrules]

Actually' date=' if he went on 3 days rest for Game 4 he would be on full rest if there were a 7th game.[/quote']

 

no he wouldn't

[TedWilliams101]

what?

 

theres no way that beckett pitches 1-4-7 , he would have to pitch game 4 and 7 on just 3 days rest , so NO , beckett is starting 2 games , thats it

 

So your telling me that if we are down 0-3 and facing elimination, you don't want Beckett on the mound? Wow.

[TheKilo]

Actually' date=' if he went on 3 days rest for Game 4 he would be on full rest if there were a 7th game.[/quote']

 

 

Game 1 - 10/24

Game 2 - 10/25

Game 3 - 10/27

Game 4 - 10/28

Game 5 - 10/29

Game 6 - 10/31

Game 7 - 11/1

 

Rest b/t games 4 and 7....3 days (10/29, 10/30, 10/31)

 

Look...the answer is simple. If Francona, Farrell, and co. didn't throw him on three days rest in Game 4 of the ALCS, why would he do it twice in this series?

 

And to those who are arguing the effect of the oxygen is minimal...I'd really have to disagree with that.

[TheKilo]

So your telling me that if we are down 0-3 and facing elimination' date=' you don't want Beckett on the mound? Wow.[/quote']

 

That may be the only instance. If they're down 1-2 then you'll see someone other than God on the mound.

[redsoxrules]

So your telling me that if we are down 0-3 and facing elimination' date=' you don't want Beckett on the mound? Wow.[/quote']

 

I SAID HE ONLY STARTS 2 GAMES , PERIOD , weather its game 1 and 5 or 1 and 4 , what dont you understand, did i say anything about not pitching beckett in game 4 if we're trailing 0-3 ? no i didn't

[ksushi]

Game 1 - 10/24

Game 2 - 10/25

Game 3 - 10/27

Game 4 - 10/28

Game 5 - 10/29

Game 6 - 10/31

Game 7 - 11/1

 

Rest b/t games 4 and 7....3 days (10/29, 10/30, 10/31)

 

Look...the answer is simple. If Francona, Farrell, and co. didn't throw him on three days rest in Game 4 of the ALCS, why would he do it twice in this series?

 

And to those who are arguing the effect of the oxygen is minimal...I'd really have to disagree with that.

 

 

I wasn't saying he would. I'd like the move, but I also like the rotation we have set up now. I don't think they will and I can see reasons for them not doing it that way.

 

But, are you sure thats how the WS is gonna play out? I'll go look at the dates myself after I post this, I'm sure there up on MLB.com, but why would they have a day off after game 4 in ALCS and not in the WS? Was there some special reason. I can do basic math like counting and can tell normally that there would only be room for three rest days between those starts, I just thought they were setting it up like the LCS because most of the reason I liked Beckett going on 3 days rest in LCS is because it would have put him on full rest for game 7.

 

That said, if snow allows for josh to get on full rest to pitch three games in this series, you better bet he'll go 3 games.

[TedWilliams101]

I SAID HE ONLY STARTS 2 GAMES ' date=' PERIOD , weather its game 1 and 5 or 1 and 4 , what dont you understand, did i say anything about not pitching beckett in game 4 if we're trailing 0-3 ? no i didn't[/quote']

 

So if we were 0-3, you want Beckett game 4, but if we then made it to game 7, you don't want him pitching, even tho he would have won game 4 on 3 days rest...

[redsoxrules]

I wasn't saying he would. I'd like the move, but I also like the rotation we have set up now. I don't think they will and I can see reasons for them not doing it that way.

 

But, are you sure thats how the WS is gonna play out? I'll go look at the dates myself after I post this, I'm sure there up on MLB.com, but why would they have a day off after game 4 in ALCS and not in the WS? Was there some special reason. I can do basic math like counting and can tell normally that there would only be room for three rest days between those starts, I just thought they were setting it up like the LCS because most of the reason I liked Beckett going on 3 days rest in LCS is because it would have put him on full rest for game 7.

 

That said, if snow allows for josh to get on full rest to pitch three games in this series, you better bet he'll go 3 games.

 

game1 oct 24

game2 oct25

game3 oct27

game4 oct28

game5 oct29

game6 oct31

game7 nov1

 

unlike the ALCS there is NO extra days off between game 4 and 5 so in order for beckett to pitch 1-4-7 he would have to do the last 2 starts on 3 days rest , and i cant see that hapening

[redsoxrules]

So if we were 0-3' date=' you want Beckett game 4, but if we then made it to game 7, you don't want him pitching, even tho he wouldn't have won game 4 on 3 days rest...[/quote']

 

????? that dosent make any sense

 

if were down 0-3 and he dosent win game 4 we're out

[TheKilo]

So if we were 0-3' date=' you want Beckett game 4, but if we then made it to game 7, you don't want him pitching, even tho he wouldn't have won game 4 on 3 days rest...[/quote']

 

If we're down 3-0 I find it difficult to believe we'll even get the series back to Fenway.

 

Why do you want to manage for a Game 7? That's ridiculously stupid.

[TheKilo]

I wasn't saying he would. I'd like the move, but I also like the rotation we have set up now. I don't think they will and I can see reasons for them not doing it that way.

 

But, are you sure thats how the WS is gonna play out? I'll go look at the dates myself after I post this, I'm sure there up on MLB.com, but why would they have a day off after game 4 in ALCS and not in the WS? Was there some special reason. I can do basic math like counting and can tell normally that there would only be room for three rest days between those starts, I just thought they were setting it up like the LCS because most of the reason I liked Beckett going on 3 days rest in LCS is because it would have put him on full rest for game 7.

 

That said, if snow allows for josh to get on full rest to pitch three games in this series, you better bet he'll go 3 games.

 

Not to sound like an ass, but you should have probably looked up the dates beforehand before you made that statement. There is no day off in the WS like there was in the ALCS.

 

And of course, if Beckett could pitch three times on normal rest, he'd do it. That's not the question being asked.

 

Weather forecast for Colorado this weekend is for it to be in the 50s, BTW.

[TedWilliams101]

????? that dosent make any sense

 

if were down 0-3 and he dosent win game 4 we're out

 

Edited, I meant "would" not "wouldn't"

[ksushi]

Not to sound like an ass, but you should have probably looked up the dates beforehand before you made that statement. There is no day off in the WS like there was in the ALCS.

 

And of course, if Beckett could pitch three times on normal rest, he'd do it. That's not the question being asked.

 

Weather forecast for Colorado this weekend is for it to be in the 50s, BTW.

 

Sorry for not doing my homework to post on a .... forum. I mean, I just kind of figured that they would set it up similarly to the ALCS. I don't think Beckett should or will pitch three times in the series if its set up on a 9 day schedule.

 

Yeah, I know about the forecast too, and it might be just a new england thing, but forecasting the weather can be tricky. Always a chance... kinda.

 

I'm all for a Beckett, Schilling, DiceK, Lester, Repeat rotation. I think it will get it done. I like how we match up against the rocks, I like that their best pitcher had a 4.22 ERA in the light hitting NL West. I think its advantage sox big time in this series, and while that doesn't guarentee anything, I don't think we have to run beckett out there everyday in order to win.

[TedWilliams101]

Wakefield isn't on the Roster for the World Series.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071023&content_id=2279512&vkey=ps2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

 

... Beckett should pitch 3 games ...

[See Red]

Wakefield isn't on the Roster for the World Series.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071023&content_id=2279512&vkey=ps2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

 

... Beckett should pitch 3 games ...

 

No he shouldn't. Knock it off.

[TedWilliams101]

Why not? He's been successful doing it before. It's fairly common for strong Aces to go 3 games in the playoffs. It gives us a better chance at winning.

[TheKilo]

Why not? He's been successful doing it before. It's fairly common for strong Aces to go 3 games in the playoffs. It gives us a better chance at winning.

 

You answer me this then.

 

If Francona wouldn't throw Beckett when we were down 2 games to 1 in the last series on three days rest, why would he do it at all in this series?

[TedWilliams101]

I'm not saying that I think Tito will pitch Beckett in 3 games, I'm saying that I WANT Beckett to pitch in 3 games. I think that is the best move.

[TheKilo]

I'm not saying that I think Tito will pitch Beckett in 3 games' date=' I'm saying that I WANT Beckett to pitch in 3 games. I think that is the best move.[/quote']

 

Explain to me why Beckett pitching twice in this series on 3 days rest is a good move.

[Rdsxmbnt]

because its the World Series?

[TedWilliams101]

Because he has proven in the past that he can pitch on 3 days rest and dominate. Because he is our best pitcher in baseball, and he is already one of the best big-game pitchers of all-time. What more do you need?

[TheKilo]

because its the World Series?

 

We were confronted with the exact same situation in the ALCS. If the FO, Tito, Farrell, etc. didn't think it was a good idea to do it then, why is it a good idea now?

 

I understand he had success doing it twice in 2003. However, do the words small sample size mean anything? To anyone???

 

If they are down 3-0, then fine, use him. Any other scenario should have Beckett in game 5 (if necessary) and Beckett ready to come out of the pen in Game 7 just like the ALCS.

[TheKilo]

Because he has proven in the past that he can pitch on 3 days rest and dominate. Because he is our best pitcher in baseball' date=' and he is already one of the best big-game pitchers of all-time. What more do you need?[/quote']

 

2 Games. 2.

 

SMALL. SAMPLE. SIZE.

[TedWilliams101]

Of course, but the point is there isn't anything suggesting he can't perform just as well on 3 days rest. Its common practice using #1 starters on 3 days rest in the playoffs. My preference would be to use him 3 times and not use Lester. I think that would give us the best chance of winning. He is a better pitcher than Lester. He has proven he can pitch well on 3 days rest. Whats to suggest that its a bad move?

 

I admit Farrell and Tito know far more than I do about Beckett, his healthy, etc. But he was VERY strong in game 5 against the Guardians. Whats to suggest that he would have done significantly worse on 1 day less rest? He certainly didn't say anything along the lines of him not feeling like he could pitch on 3 days rest.

 

The truth is its all speculation. Some want him to pitch 3 games, some want him to pitch 2. Its pure opinion. There really isn't any way to prove which is better. Beckett has done it in the past, but as you have said, that is a small sample size. But I guess a small sample size that suggests one thing is better than nothing that suggest the other...

 

I'd say if Beckett feels strong enough to pitch on 3 days rest, do it. If he doesn't, don't.

 

Either way, lets just win.

[YAZMAN]

TW, he had 5 days rest, not 4. Wednesday was an off day. He pitched on Friday then came back on Thursday.

[jacksonianmarch]

Now Dr. Beeper, surely in med school they taught you the difference between aerobic and anaerobic energy delivery. Pitching is an anaerobic activity, short bursts of explosive activity, primarily utilizing ATP. While there is an oxidative aspect to the body's recharging of the byproduct ADP back into ATP, it is not an aerobic metabolism. The intensity of the aerobic demand on the pitcher's body at that elevation is not compromised by difference in O2. Recovery between pitches and between innings is not significantly different at that altitude as it is at sea level - especially when it's a sea of dirty water.

 

My guess is that any noted gasping would revolve around your fading argument in this thread.

 

this is absolutely false. Pitching is an anaerobic activity? The only anaerobic activity you perform is when your 02 demand exceeds its supply, then you shift your energy making capability from oxidative phosphorylation to lactate production from pyruvate. The lactic acid builds up which causes fatigue.