How good is Cla Meredith?

[a700hitter]

5.24 ERA.... thats pretty bad for a NL pitcher

...or any pitcher.

[Mr Crunchy]

i dont have time for the personal ******** as much as i want to play

some other time kids

anyways

the nite i said arroyo pitched well he gave up 3 runs in 6 ip

a quality start as they say

and ya

theyve been few and far between for arroyo who is on the worst hitting team in mlb last i checked

 

i know arroyo is getting knocked around and i understand he isnt a guy who will be a stud

i am not blind and i can read

 

however understand this

he did throw 230 innings last yearafter signing a home town deal that was very generous to us

he was traded for what amounts to be a 5th outfielder who has been a bust whether its his contracts fault or not.

 

put arroyos 30?? + starts on paper against the jj johnsons and the other f***ing scatine we had out there and we have a team that wins 10 more games i feel.

thats not unrealistic

the guy won 14 in 05 and had an era under 4.5 or around there

he loved it here he was too goofy to be frightened by the yankees and he got corholed by the front office because his contract was short money and he was easily movable.

the reds toss around quarters like manhole covers and game him 12M per for 3 years??

i think??

they were happy with him

 

pena is a sox throwback

phil plantier rick lancelotti sam horn etc...

a big strong guy who cant hit a curve ball cant catch and makes rob deere look like a contact hitter

with schilling and foulke and clement and a s*** load of questions in the bullpen it was the worst time possible to trade him and we did

and we paid

of course late season injuries finished them off but at the break we were still in the race but had no arms left to get over the hump

 

pena will hit 35hrs given 500abs but he wont get them here and im not sure anyone club will tolerate his lack of patience and fielding skills

it was a failure any way you cut the cake

[CrespoBlows]

i dont have time for the personal ******** as much as i want to play

some other time kids

anyways

the nite i said arroyo pitched well he gave up 3 runs in 6 ip

a quality start as they say

and ya

theyve been few and far between for arroyo who is on the worst hitting team in mlb last i checked

 

You are quite easy to debate. You spin more ******** than Bill O'Reilly, Keith Olbermann, and George Bush combined.

 

The Reds offense averages 4.54 runs a game. Good enough for sixth in the National League.

 

i know arroyo is getting knocked around and i understand he isnt a guy who will be a stud

i am not blind and i can read

 

You can read, you're just having troubles with comprehension.

 

however understand this

he did throw 230 innings last yearafter signing a home town deal that was very generous to us

he was traded for what amounts to be a 5th outfielder who has been a bust whether its his contracts fault or not.

 

A 5th outfielder? Your anti-Wily Mo bias is very obvious, and it deludes you from thinking rationally.

 

When Wily Mo was given a chance to play everyday, he hit .301 with 12 HR's. If you gave those at-bats to Willie Harris and Dustin Mohr, I can safely say the Red Sox would lose about two games in the standings.

 

 

 

put arroyos 30?? + starts on paper against the jj johnsons and the other f***ing scatine we had out there and we have a team that wins 10 more games i feel.

thats not unrealistic

 

Yes, it is totally unrealistic. Let me ask you a few questions.

 

Are you adjusting for the difficulty of pitching in the American League?

Are you adjusting for the familiarity American League hitters had with Bronson Arroyo?

 

If not, you're getting a wildly inflated number, which still wouldn't account for 10 wins.

 

If you use the accepted formula that 10 runs = 1 win, do you believe Bronson Arroyo would keep 100 more runs off the scoreboard than Jason Johnson would?

 

 

the guy won 14 in 05 and had an era under 4.5 or around there

he loved it here he was too goofy to be frightened by the yankees

 

He should send the Red Sox offense a thank you card for those 14 wins.

 

In 39.2 IP against the Yankees, Bronson Arroyo has managed to put up a 5.45 ERA. I'm not even counting that horrible Game 3 start against them in 2004.

 

and he got corholed by the front office because his contract was short money and he was easily movable.the reds toss around quarters like manhole covers and game him 12M per for 3 years?? i think?? they were happy with him

 

They should have been, but they should have waited.

 

pena is a sox throwback

phil plantier rick lancelotti sam horn etc...

a big strong guy who cant hit a curve ball cant catch and makes rob deere look like a contact hitter

with schilling and foulke and clement and a s*** load of questions in the bullpen it was the worst time possible to trade him and we did

and we paid

of course late season injuries finished them off but at the break we were still in the race but had no arms left to get over the hump

 

Pena - .258 career average

Deer - .220 career average

 

There's no way Arroyo could have prevented that. I don't even think an Andruw Jones would have saved that ball club.

 

Lester went down, Schilling faded, Wakefield went down, Beckett was awful, Foulke went down, Ortiz missed a couple weeks, Gonzalez was on the DL, Ramirez missed a month, Lowell faded, Youkilis was banged up, Crisp was hurt the entire season, Nixon was hurt, Varitek went down.

 

That team was f***ed.

 

pena will hit 35hrs given 500abs but he wont get them here and im not sure anyone club will tolerate his lack of patience and fielding skills

it was a failure any way you cut the cake

 

He's an average defensive CF.

 

I can't believe you continue to rip Wily Mo Pena as often as you do. This guy has gotten one chance to play everyday, and he ran with that opportunity. Now, he's getting f***ed around with by the front office, and the manager. Guys like Wily Mo Pena, aren't usually great pinch hitters. In order to gauge his ability, he needs to play everyday. He likely won't get that chance.

[redsoxrules]

Meredith not doing so good this year

[Jayhawk Bill]

Bump. This is as good a day as any to discuss past presents to other teams.

 

Cla Meredith didn't miss his 2007 PECOTA projection by too much--he was between the 25th and 40th percentiles. Note that his defense let him down badly: hitters facing Meredith had a .429 BABIP in May and a whopping .462 BABIP in June--that didn't last, and he posted a 3.11 ERA in the second half.

 

He'll probably match up with the careers with other relief pitchers who enjoyed brief success despite their lack of strikeouts. Jim Willoughby comes to mind: he was highly regarded by fans in the mid 1970's, but he faded fast after Boston sold him to the White Sox in the Buffalo Head purge. Bill Castro, Rusty Meacham, and Randy Moffitt could be considered similar; although he was a starting pitcher, Cy Young winner Randy Jones was kinda similar.

 

All of these guys put up very good ERAs until they lost a little bit off their fastball, when they suffered swift declines. Moffitt was effective at age 34, but the others were washed up around age 30, and even Moffitt posted ERAs over 7.00 at ages 30 and 32.

 

I expect that Cla Meredith will be a good set-up man, earning a few saves, for two or three more years despite his trouble in May and June last year. If given a chance to close, he'll do a credible job unless he suffers again from shell shock as he did with Boston. I see an early decline for Meredith, though, somewhere around his later arb years if he's unlucky or soon after his first shot at free agency if he's lucky.

[jacksonianmarch]

A good amount of Meredith's success is arm angle rather than velocity, IMO. His sub 3/4 arm angle puts wicked movement on the ball which allows for him to keep the ball down and get outs. The issue with him will be health, as many of these awkward delivery guys blow out their arms at young ages and never get that movement again.

[Jayhawk Bill]

A good amount of Meredith's success is arm angle rather than velocity' date=' IMO. His sub 3/4 arm angle puts wicked movement on the ball which allows for him to keep the ball down and get outs. The issue with him will be health, as many of these awkward delivery guys blow out their arms at young ages and never get that movement again.[/quote']

 

 

Wouldn't dispute any of that: it's just that there's also a point where, unless you're throwing a knuckleball or you get the strike zone size that Greg Maddux gets, without at least an 88mph fastball to set up your other pitches you tend to become ineffective. Cla Meredith is already having trouble throwing any harder than 85mph--if he loses just a tiny bit of velocity due to a lesser injury, he'll have trouble retiring MLB hitters.

 

IMO...YMMV.