April 21 vs. New York

[seabeachfred]

That is true and its also his career high 4th consecutive win. Couple other minor notes is that Ortiz's HR today was his 179th as a Red Sox moving him past Nomar to 10th all-time in franchise history. Manny is 9 hits away from his 1000th as a Red Sox

 

Riverside, though Beckett gave up four runs in the first two inning, tell me how many of those hits were screamers. One bloop, one off of Cora's glove and another that was of the cheap variety; then Lowell's error gave two more runs away. With any luck Josh would have gotten out of the whole mess with one run allowed. I do think, though, that by the seventh inning he was spent and I was hoping he would bring 'Jima' in to face Abreu. At least that's what I was screaming at the TV. Still, it worked out well even though Josh was spent by the time he faced A-Rod.

[seabeachfred]

I'll pat myself on the back. I'm one of the few who thought this team was going to be not just okay, but GOOD this year. So far, so good.

 

Thank GOD for Papelbon in the pen though.

 

Well as long as we are winning as you said go ahead and keep patting yourself on the back. We are playing very good ball but I am waiting for Manny to join the parade. If and when he opens up and starts ripping the baseball our team can compete with anybody. I do have to admit that the Yankees still worry me. Oh sure, if we play well we can beat them but when they play just about anyone else their overwhelming batting order can keep ringing up those 8-6 and 9-7 victories. That is why in head to head competition this year we have to take them-----pure and simple. It might come down to that in the AL East. Anyone agree or disagree with that?

[example1]

I'm not saying this is the greatest team in history. I'm aware just how young the season is. I just think that the outcome ultimately comes down to the play of the team, from David Ortiz at the top all the way down to Alex Cora and Kyle Snyder. Each game is a journey where inches, not star-power often make the difference. On the aggregate those who tend to get the inches right more often end up being stars, but it is as simple as a release point, or a raised seam, or a bouncing ball.

 

The only thing the FO can do is put a team in a good position to win. This year they picked up a number of new relievers, but people said they likely wouldn't be good--arguing more often than not because it was this FO, which has struggled to put together a solid pen in the past, rather than any coherent argument about the guys who comprise that pen. "Romero is crap!" or "Pineiro sucks" are heard all too often before these guys get a shot. You throw s*** to a wall and hope that it sticks. A guy like Okijima shouldn't really be suprising people too much: he was a very established, life-long reliever in Japan who had had success.

 

The signing of Dice-K was an absolute coup, as he and Beckett will form the core of the SP for a few years to come, just at a time when guys like Mariano Rivera are disappearing, making the Yankees have to figure out who will be their 100%, all-the-time closer. He, more than anyone else, is the reason for their success the past few years and now he's 37 or so and on a decline.

 

Things change in baseball, teams change, players change. I hope people at this point have a little bit of faith that the FO knows what it is doing and isn't just throwing out players to fool people into thinking they're trying to be competitive.

 

Are there still people here who wish we had gone after Zito, or Schmidt?

 

Anyway, long story short, there's still a long time to go here and these games have been very nice lately. I hope that Dice comes out rolling tomorrow with some serious cheese, hopefully my wish will come true and A-Rod will finally get one up and in.

 

And YES SBF, if rivera can pull his s*** together then this season very well could come down to the Sox-Yanks head-to-head records. If he doesn't then the Yankees could be in trouble.

[riverside sluggers]

Me as well, my only concern entering this season was the bullpen behind Papelbon. They have proven their steady worth entering the season. Hell Okajima mania is starting to begin, Donnelly has been reliable thus far, and the more the merrier if Timlin comes back anywhere close to his 03-05 self. If needed at all the Sox have good depth in the minors for relief help. I knew the rotation would be solid as they come and produce innings. The offense can be one of the best, now if they can do on the road what theyve done at home... watch out

 

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article_perspectives.jsp?ymd=20070421&content_id=1922298&vkey=perspectives&fext=.jsp

Article here from mlb.com (Yankee writer) Tom Singer, didnt realize this could be the first sweep of the Yankees at Fenway since 1990. While he does make a lot of good points... One quote from has me scratching my head... Ok he said Matsuzaka has to starting pulling his weight soon... um what? Sure Tom he's 1-2, but also compile that with a 2.70 ERA, 24 Ks in 20 innings (2 starts had 10 apiece). Its called bad run support, not him not pulling his weight. For shame Dice that you havent shut out your last 2 opponents

[ANiMAL]

I cant believe our bullpen.

 

This is the best it has been in years. I hope they can keep it up throughout the entire year. I dont know about you guys, but i foresee a "sweep" victory tonight.

[a700hitter]

Let's not get too excited about our bullpen. It's not as good as it looks other than Papelbon. I've said it over and over. Good starting pitching will cover up a lot of deficiencies in the bull pen. It will allow you to keep your good pen arms fresh and to use the bums only in garbage time when they can't hurt you or in very limited instances where they need only get 1 key out, like Snyder the other night. Last year the starters could barely get through the 5th. That caused everyone to be used almost every night. That exposed the bags of s*** like Seanez and it literally broke down Timlin and eventually Papelbon. If the starters keep taking us to the 7th and later, this pen will perform quite well. Piniero, Snyder, Donnelly and Romero will get very limited work and not be exposed for the crap that they are, and the three reliable guys Timlin, Jima and Papelbon will not get overworked. If our starter get injured or stop giving us quality starts on a regular basis, this pen will break apart like last year's. Keep your fingers crossed for the health of the starting rotation, because the pen has only 3 reliable arms out there and only one star.

[riverside sluggers]

Im not really biting my fingernails when I see Donnelly warming up

[seabeachfred]

I'm not saying this is the greatest team in history. I'm aware just how young the season is. I just think that the outcome ultimately comes down to the play of the team, from David Ortiz at the top all the way down to Alex Cora and Kyle Snyder. Each game is a journey where inches, not star-power often make the difference. On the aggregate those who tend to get the inches right more often end up being stars, but it is as simple as a release point, or a raised seam, or a bouncing ball.

 

The only thing the FO can do is put a team in a good position to win. This year they picked up a number of new relievers, but people said they likely wouldn't be good--arguing more often than not because it was this FO, which has struggled to put together a solid pen in the past, rather than any coherent argument about the guys who comprise that pen. "Romero is crap!" or "Pineiro sucks" are heard all too often before these guys get a shot. You throw s*** to a wall and hope that it sticks. A guy like Okijima shouldn't really be suprising people too much: he was a very established, life-long reliever in Japan who had had success.

 

The signing of Dice-K was an absolute coup, as he and Beckett will form the core of the SP for a few years to come, just at a time when guys like Mariano Rivera are disappearing, making the Yankees have to figure out who will be their 100%, all-the-time closer. He, more than anyone else, is the reason for their success the past few years and now he's 37 or so and on a decline.

 

Things change in baseball, teams change, players change. I hope people at this point have a little bit of faith that the FO knows what it is doing and isn't just throwing out players to fool people into thinking they're trying to be competitive.

 

Are there still people here who wish we had gone after Zito, or Schmidt?

 

Anyway, long story short, there's still a long time to go here and these games have been very nice lately. I hope that Dice comes out rolling tomorrow with some serious cheese, hopefully my wish will come true and A-Rod will finally get one up and in.

 

And YES SBF, if rivera can pull his s*** together then this season very well could come down to the Sox-Yanks head-to-head records. If he doesn't then the Yankees could be in trouble.

 

Great post EX; you hit it on all cylinders. Where I have my doubts, though, are with Pineiro and Romero. Romero cannot pitch worth a damn against the Yankees and if doesn't have his control, which is often, he is not that much help with lefties. If he has his control, then he could be used that way and THAT WAY ONLY. No way he becomes our main lefty in the bullpen, not after shithole seasons with the Twins and Angels. He might be on his way down. As for Piniero, the human pin cushion, the last three years should have told Theo all he needed to know about this guy and that he is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

On the other fronts you were a spot-on. Getting Drew and Lugo strenghtened our hitting attack, Dice K our rotation, and Okajima and Donnelly our bullpen. The only place where Theo "might" have failed is in getting that reserve catcher we all thought we needed, but even here Mirabelli has gotten off to a flying start and in the telecast yesterday Buck and McCarver were bemoaning the Yankees' shortage in that area while throwing bouquets at our situation with Doug. It must have killed McCarver to have to say that, though.

 

Zito is coming around for the Giants, however. He has pitched two gems in a row, and Schmidt may come around when his shoulder inflamation heals. Still, like you, I will go with Matsuzaka. That was far and away the best move we could have made for our starting pitching from my vantage point.

[seabeachfred]

Me as well, my only concern entering this season was the bullpen behind Papelbon. They have proven their steady worth entering the season. Hell Okajima mania is starting to begin, Donnelly has been reliable thus far, and the more the merrier if Timlin comes back anywhere close to his 03-05 self. If needed at all the Sox have good depth in the minors for relief help. I knew the rotation would be solid as they come and produce innings. The offense can be one of the best, now if they can do on the road what theyve done at home... watch out

 

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article_perspectives.jsp?ymd=20070421&content_id=1922298&vkey=perspectives&fext=.jsp

Article here from mlb.com (Yankee writer) Tom Singer, didnt realize this could be the first sweep of the Yankees at Fenway since 1990. While he does make a lot of good points... One quote from has me scratching my head... Ok he said Matsuzaka has to starting pulling his weight soon... um what? Sure Tom he's 1-2, but also compile that with a 2.70 ERA, 24 Ks in 20 innings (2 starts had 10 apiece). Its called bad run support, not him not pulling his weight. For shame Dice that you havent shut out your last 2 opponents

 

Did Singer really say those stupid things? And we thought some of the Boston writers were out to lunch. Someone get that guy a box score of the last two games Dice K threw. I was at one of them and, believe me, Felix Hernandez could have beaten anyone but God that night. Please, though, let's shut up Singer tonight by having our hitters go out there and get about six or seven runs for Matsuzaka. We do that and we take the hat trick in this series.

[a700hitter]

Im not really biting my fingernails when I see Donnelly warming up

You should. We used to beat him like a pinata before Scoscia could get to KRod. He's okay in a limited role, but if we start going to him on a regular basis in pressure situations in the 7th or 8th, he will be exposed.

[seabeachfred]

Let's not get too excited about our bullpen. It's not as good as it looks other than Papelbon. I've said it over and over. Good starting pitching will cover up a lot of deficiencies in the bull pen. It will allow you to keep your good pen arms fresh and to use the bums only in garbage time when they can't hurt you or in very limited instances where they need only get 1 key out' date=' like Snyder the other night. Last year the starters could barely get through the 5th. That caused everyone to be used almost every night. That exposed the bags of s*** like Seanez and it literally broke down Timlin and eventually Papelbon. If the starters keep taking us to the 7th and later, this pen will perform quite well. Piniero, Snyder, Donnelly and Romero will get very limited work and not be exposed for the crap that they are, and the three reliable guys Timlin, Jima and Papelbon will not get overworked. If our starter get injured or stop giving us quality starts on a regular basis, this pen will break apart like last year's. Keep your fingers crossed for the health of the starting rotation, because the pen has only 3 reliable arms out there and only one star.[/quote']

 

Another good post with one glaring exception. Like Riverside, I have full confidence in Brendan Donnelly. I have seen this guy pitch enough times out here in Sou. Cal. to know that he has the guts, fortitude and stuff to be successful. Include him with Timlin, 'Jima, and Paps and you have the Big Cahoona in your post. Snyder used as he was Friday is excellent. He can't complain; he got two outs and picked up a victory. Romero? He is out situational lefty, not Jima. Jima is one helluva pitcher. Piniero? No comment.

[ORS]

I won't worry with Donnelly against the weak hitting AL West and the lighter halves of the AL Central and East, but I'll be every bit as worried about him as would be for Timlin against NYY, CLE, CWS, and DET. I agree with a700. The bully has been great so far, but Papelbon is the only guy I have no fear with. Jima, after the last two outings, is approaching a similar, albeit not as absolute, comfort level.

 

I think this BP has a chance to be good, especially since the rotation looks like it can get deep into a great majority of the games, even against good teams. I stood up for it on those premises earlier after Jackson's homer predictions had them as a bottom of the league bully, but I'll need to see some continued success before I think it's truly a league leader. Could be, but time will tell.

[a700hitter]

Against us he allowed 32 base runners in 22 innings, including 12 walks, and he has had inexplicable trouble against the KC Royals. WHen he pitches too much in pressure situations, it has been a problem. He has a serviceable arm that can find a productive role in the pen if used on a limited basis. Am I vomitting when he comes into a pressure spot, like Seanez would cause me to do? No, but I am not brimming with confidence either. I am fine with him working the 7th inning once or twice a week with a 3 or more run lead, but I don't want to see him trotting to the mound in the 8 th or 9th against the Yankees with the game on the line.

[a700hitter]

I think this BP has a chance to be good' date=' especially since the rotation looks like it can get deep into a great majority of the games, even against good teams. I stood up for it on those premises earlier after Jackson's homer predictions had them as a bottom of the league bully, but I'll need to see some continued success before I think it's truly a league leader. Could be, but time will tell.[/quote']The pen will be as good as the rotation let's it be. If Tavarez can't get past the 5th and one or two other starters have trouble getting to the 7th on a regular basis, this bullpen will pull apart like a piec of cheap fabric. If JT can't hold his own, I'd go get Clemens to keep the rotation formidable and the pen fresh.

[seabeachfred]

I won't worry with Donnelly against the weak hitting AL West and the lighter halves of the AL Central and East, but I'll be every bit as worried about him as would be for Timlin against NYY, CLE, CWS, and DET. I agree with a700. The bully has been great so far, but Papelbon is the only guy I have no fear with. Jima, after the last two outings, is approaching a similar, albeit not as absolute, comfort level.

 

I think this BP has a chance to be good, especially since the rotation looks like it can get deep into a great majority of the games, even against good teams. I stood up for it on those premises earlier after Jackson's homer predictions had them as a bottom of the league bully, but I'll need to see some continued success before I think it's truly a league leader. Could be, but time will tell.

 

Yes Red, you made the key point----THE STARTERS MUST GO DEEP IN THE GAMES!!!. No more of this five inning nonsense. They have to go seven and, in some case, eight innings, which I think is very doable. Beckett usually has had a big pitch count but yesterday wasn't all his fault with those bleeders and that error in the second prolonging our agony. If the starters do their job we have only two innings, and sometimes one, to concern ourselves with, and the four relievers mentioned should be able to handle that fine.

[seabeachfred]

Against us he allowed 32 base runners in 22 innings' date=' including 12 walks, and he has had inexplicable trouble against the KC Royals. WHen he pitches too much in pressure situations, it has been a problem. He has a serviceable arm that can find a productive role in the pen if used on a limited basis. Am I vomitting when he comes into a pressure spot, like Seanez would cause me to do? No, but I am not brimming with confidence either. I am fine with him working the 7th inning once or twice a week with a 3 or more run lead, but I don't want to see him trotting to the mound in the 8 th or 9th against the Yankees with the game on the line.[/quote']

 

"trotting to the mound in the 8th or 9th with the game on the line." Well since you put it that way, I don't want that either unless we have a three run lead. On that score, I would trust Papelbon and Okajima, though. Yes, Jima. He looks like the real deal to me and we only have to see what he's done the last two games under pressure circumstances to know that. As for Timlin, I guess I have more confidence in him that most of the rest of you.

[riverside sluggers]

The pen will be as good as the rotation let's it be. If Tavarez can't get past the 5th and one or two other starters have trouble getting to the 7th on a regular basis' date=' this bullpen will pull apart like a piec of cheap fabric. If JT can't hold his own, I'd go get Clemens to keep the rotation formidable and the pen fresh.[/quote']

 

Its holding on a prayer for Tavarez to produce the same results as his start vs Toronto, he's facing Halladay & the Jays on Tuesday and then the Yankee lineup at Yankee Stadium. Tavarez is nothing more than a stop gap until Lester finds himself or Roger comes back, although Id be much more comfortable if Hansack was the 5th starter right now

[a700hitter]

Its holding on a prayer for Tavarez to produce the same results as his start vs Toronto' date=' he's facing Halladay & the Jays on Tuesday and then the Yankee lineup at Yankee Stadium. Tavarez is nothing more than a stop gap until Lester finds himself or Roger comes back, although Id be much more comfortable if Hansack was the 5th starter right now[/quote']Forget about Lester. Let the kid get healthy and learn to pitch first. We don't need hmi thrwoing 100 pitches over 4 or 5 inning. We could stay with Tavarez to get 5 innings. Hansack? Do you really want to start trotting hopes and prayers to the mound every fifth day? That can snowball on you pretty fast, escpecially if one of the other arms gets shutdown for even a short period. That would have the domino effect of exposing the weaker arms in the pen and overusing the 3 reliable arms. Hopes and prayers don't get answered. If JT cannot get us to the 6th or 7th in 60% of his starts, the FO needs to get a legitimate starter in here if for no other reason than to eat innings and protect the bullpen. Everything looks greast now, because we used the 5th slot only once. When we start trotting the #5 guy out there consistently, we will see what we are dealing with.

[riverside sluggers]

Read my post clearly: I said until Lester finds himself, huh that isnt me wanting them to rush him back up ether, is it?

 

Sorry my mind is slipping here... but to you Tavarez is a decent starter while Hansack is crapshoot hopes & prayers?

[a700hitter]

Read my post clearly: I said until Lester finds himself, huh that isnt me wanting them to rush him back up ether, is it?

 

Sorry my mind is slipping here... but to you Tavarez is a decent starter while Hansack is crapshoot hopes & prayers?

No, I said we need to wait and see if JT can do the job, but he is a major league experienced while Hansack is not. Trotting in bush leaguers is nothing more than hopes and prayers. JT can pitch in the majors, but the starters role is new to him and he needs to show some consistency. We don't know if Hansack will be good enough to hold down any ML roster spot, never mind a spot in the rotation. I realize that you are not looking to rush Lester, but I am saying something else. He should be scratched from the 2007 ML plans except for a spot start or two in August when the double headers start to pile up. He needs to learn to pitch. He's just not ready.

[Ray10]

What a start by Beckett 4-0 with 25 K's he's looking great so far this year, hope he keeps it up and continues to pitch amazing.

[ORS]

No' date=' I said we need to wait and see if JT can do the job, but he is a major league experienced while Hansack is not. Trotting in bush leaguers is nothing more than hopes and prayers. JT can pitch in the majors, but the starters role is new to him and he needs to show some consistency. We don't know if Hansack will be good enough to hold down any ML roster spot, never mind a spot in the rotation. I realize that you are not looking to rush Lester, but I am saying something else. He should be scratched from the 2007 ML plans except for a spot start or two in August when the double headers start to pile up. He needs to learn to pitch. He's just not ready.[/quote']

I think the make or break factor for me in the Tavarez/Hansack issue is control. As long as JT can limit the free pass and keep us in the games he pitches, then I don't see a real problem with him. What he can't do is what he did in Texas where he walked 5 in 4.

 

Hansack doesn't have a lot going for him, but he does possess command of 3 pitches. That's enough to keep hitters guessing and make them hit his pitch most of the time. He won't come up and fan 9 per 9 and get deep into 80% of his games, but I think he can give us pretty much what Arroyo did. Nothing spectacular, but a good rate of QS and some innings.