Is the Grace Period Over?

[TheKilo]

I'm tired of the excuses, I'm tired of the hissy fits.

 

Improve the team.

[Dojji]

I'm tired of the excuses, I'm tired of the hissy fits.

 

Improve the team.

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2261/1685886084_ddd3497b44.jpg

 

A little harsh? Perhaps. Buit tell me something, Kilo, exactly why does a team that got to Game 7 of the ALCS with one of its best hitters injured and out for the series and its best hitter hurt and slumping need to make a dramatic overhaul just to please the bored masses of Red Sox fans?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Should have, should have, should have. Good god people.

 

This is a team that has missed the playoffs exactly once since Theo Epstein got here. Remember where we were before that during the height of the Yqankee dynasty and appreciate what we have here. If you want a GM with a 1.000 AVG I'm with you and we should hire him as soon as you find one. Well, what are you waiting for?

 

For all he's done or hasn't done that you, personally, disagree with this is a GM that has taken a disgraced team that hadn't done anything meaningful since 1995 and got them into the playoffs in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007, and 2008 and won the World Series twice. That's a damn good run no matter what else he's done or will ever do.

 

We're talking about the most dominant stretch of Red Sox baseball since 1918 and dissing the GM that got us there. I mean come on people!

 

IMHO Theo Epstein's grace period is renewed every time the Sox go deep into the playoffs. It is DANG HARD to win back to back world series, and the Sox are a David Price pitch 18 inches outside the strike zone for called strike 3 in the 8th inningof ALCS Game 7 from accomplishing exactly that. It was the most effective title defense since 2000, which is an accomplishment itself working with a team that had an extra month of baseball just the year before.

He is right.

[TheKilo]

Let me ask you - they didn't do anything to improve the team last offseason. Ortiz and Lowell are not going to be around forever and the offense has the chance to struggle next season if these guys don't bounce back and continue to decline.

 

Teixeira could have solved both problems.

 

They are the second most profitable franchise in all of baseball. They preach payroll flexibility for some reason - and then do NOTHING when they have the opportunity to flex their muscle. They cry that they are at a disadvantage and it sounds completely disingenuous.

 

I still have not gotten this answer from anyone - if you're not going to spend FA dollars on Teixeira, who are you going to spend this money on?

 

Youkilis? Nope - they aren't negotiating with him now.

 

Bay? Seems like if they really wanted him, they would have signed him already.

 

Are they waiting for Matt Holliday? If they do it will be an incredible mistake because the Yankees are going to sign him next offseason too.

 

Papelbon? Nah - it looks like Paps wants to be a FA and get paid more than anything else.

 

For every Dustin Pedroia who takes a team-friendly deal, there are tens of others who want to get the money.

 

A dramatic overhaul is not needed unless it improves the team in the short, medium, and long terms, which is what the Teixeira deal would have done. It would have only cost them money but they decided not to use it.

 

Now that negotiations with THEIR MVP caliber 1B have fallen through, it'll be interesting to see what they do, if they do anything. I wonder if JWH send out a pissy email about Youkilis's agent?

[26 to 6]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2261/1685886084_ddd3497b44.jpg

 

A little harsh? Perhaps. Buit tell me something, Kilo, exactly why does a team that got to Game 7 of the ALCS with one of its best hitters injured and out for the series and its best hitter hurt and slumping need to make a dramatic overhaul just to please the bored masses of Red Sox fans?

Because players age and injuries persist.

 

Are they waiting for Matt Holliday? If they do it will be an incredible mistake because the Yankees are going to sign him next offseason too.

I hope not, I don't really want him. I would prefer the Mets sign him. But if it means keeping him away from you guys I say go for it Cash! lol

 

Papelbon? Nah - it looks like Paps wants to be a FA and get paid more than anything else.

When does he hit the market? Maybe he can replace Mo

[redsoxrules]

 

 

 

 

When does he hit the market? Maybe he can replace Mo

 

wouldn't suprise me one bit

[Dojji]

Because players age and injuries persist.

 

Mikey ain't cooked just yet, and Ortiz' problems boil down to just the one bad year. If they falter we have Carter, Bailey and Anderson behind them to pick up the slack

 

I see no reason why either player is now doomed to instant, swift decline and actually expect both men to bounce back nicely and even if one or both of them struggle we're not hurting for alternates with the ability to put good wood on a baseball.

[26 to 6]

Mikey ain't cooked just yet, and Ortiz' problems boil down to just the one bad year. If they falter we have Carter, Bailey and Anderson behind them to pick up the slack

 

I see no reason why either player is now doomed to instant, swift decline and actually expect both men to bounce back nicely and even if one or both of them struggle we're not hurting for alternates with the ability to put good wood on a baseball.

For your sake I hope they do. Well not really, but they're both good guys who have been great for the game. But Ortiz' problems don't just boil down to one bad year, they boil down to a bum wrist. And as for Lowell, he might not be cooked just yet, but he's boiling. It's only a matter of time.

[Dipre]

I have only two words:

 

It's December.

 

If ya wanna bitch and moan, do it in March when the final product is ready, i say, if Tex didn't really wanna be here (and all signs point to that fact), then f*** him, and let's not bash FO until they put the 2009 Red Sox on the field.

[example1]

I still have not gotten this answer from anyone - if you're not going to spend FA dollars on Teixeira, who are you going to spend this money on?

 

I guess I would ask why you think that the Yankee mode of spending money is the correct one? Or, why do you think that they have to spend all of this money in the first place and keep spending it over and over again? I mean, on one hand they should put a comptetitve team out there. On the other hand, as far as I know they arent a non-profit agency so making a profit seems allowed.

 

Furthermore, it seems like you would be happier if they had a bunch of cumbersome contracts under their belt so you could say they are both competitive and have spent their money. Would it be better if they had signed Jason Schmidt (15.6m), Vernon Wells (18m)and Fukudome (12m), so they had respent their money? I don't think so.

 

So they have low paid players in key positions currently: 1B, 2B, CF, LF, SP1, SP2, SP3. Beckett isn't in the top 18 of pitchers, Dice-K isn't either, and neither is Lester. Pedroia is a steal as the 6th highest paid player at his position, Youk makes 1/7th of what Teixeira will make next year, and Ellsbury is making virtually the MLB minimum.

 

There are many players who they could spend money on, but aside from Teixeira I didn't hear many people here advocating for them getting Burnett or Sabathia at the prices they were asking for.

 

Youkilis? Nope - they aren't negotiating with him now.

 

Bay? Seems like if they really wanted him, they would have signed him already.

 

Are they waiting for Matt Holliday? If they do it will be an incredible mistake because the Yankees are going to sign him next offseason too.

 

Maybe so, maybe not. Youkilis could resign to a lucrative deal eventually, Bay could do the same. Holliday is not as good as Teixeira and unfortunately I don't see a spot for him on this team unless Drew can play 1B.

 

Papelbon? Nah - it looks like Paps wants to be a FA and get paid more than anything else.

 

Not the fault of the FO, right?

 

For every Dustin Pedroia who takes a team-friendly deal, there are tens of others who want to get the money.

 

I don't think there are 10 Pedroia's out there. If they want to get the money that may mean they choose one of the other teams.

 

A dramatic overhaul is not needed unless it improves the team in the short, medium, and long terms, which is what the Teixeira deal would have done. It would have only cost them money but they decided not to use it.

 

Now that negotiations with THEIR MVP caliber 1B have fallen through, it'll be interesting to see what they do, if they do anything. I wonder if JWH send out a pissy email about Youkilis's agent?

 

Didn't you start the "Apparently Opening Day is Tomorrow Thread?"

[example1]

I'm tired of the excuses, I'm tired of the hissy fits.

 

Improve the team.

 

I think you're projecting Kilo. I feel like the hissy fits are actually coming from the people who are posting the same thing over and over, either pulling random quotes of Theo's to throw in the FOs face, or claiming that the team hasn't improved over and over, or complaining about losing out to the Yankees and rehashing all the old times that the Sox didn't get their way. Hissy fits, to me, are when people complain about the FO not spending as much money as they wanted and suddenly losing their usually cool heads.

 

Until I see JH screaming and banging his shoe on the podium, I will keep my eyes open for hissy fits on the part of the FO.

 

Not ten days ago you wrote:

 

I think it's fair to expect this team to be close to the same next season (better if they land Tex). Having a healthy Drew, Lowell, Ortiz, and Beckett will counter any regressions from Pedroia, Youkilis, and Lester.

 

Then the Yankee fans are able to come here and gloat and suddenly I see hissy fits left and right. I miss the 12-15-08 Kilo, not the one who is accusing others of hissy fits when they have made a total of 3 public sentences over the past 4 days. How is "I think it's fair to expect this team to be close to the same next season" suddenly flipped on it's head? If it is still the case then who, exactly, is having hissy fits?

[TheKilo]

Their negotiating tactics have left a sour taste in my mouth, and the left the Yankees won the sweepstakes for a mere $12 million.

 

They have time to remedy it. They can't sit back and claim poverty and wish that Lowell and Ortiz have bounceback seasons. They can't do it.

[example1]

Their negotiating tactics have left a sour taste in my mouth, and the left the Yankees won the sweepstakes for a mere $12 million.

 

They have time to remedy it. They can't sit back and claim poverty and wish that Lowell and Ortiz have bounceback seasons. They can't do it.

 

It wasn't for $12 million Kilo. Once you get that you will be much more at ease, I think. He. Didn't. Want. To. Be. A. Red. Sox. Perhaps he wanted to go to the Yankees AND screw the Red Sox over. You say he's the ultimate businessman, well, might he also remember his experience with the Sox when they drafted him? He might. I don'tknow one way or the other, I just think it is myopic to say "the Sox didn't land Teixeira, he's what they needed" when there appear to have been other factors involved.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure the Yankees will be paying about 31m for Teixeira's services with their cap tax.

[rician blast]

Teixeira could have solved both problems.

 

At what cost? They made a very, very solid offer, and if you read most of what's being written now, the consensus seems to be that teh Sox knew they wouldn't be a factor because Kotexeira was showing little interest in becoming a Red Sock...so should they have paid $190m to trump the Yanks $180m offer? And what if the Yanks came back at $195...do the Sox go to $200m? They set a target...his asking price exceeded that target.

 

They cry that they are at a disadvantage and it sounds completely disingenuous.

 

They are...and it'll probably be approx. an $80m disadvantage again.

 

I still have not gotten this answer from anyone - if you're not going to spend FA dollars on Teixeira, who are you going to spend this money on?

 

There are 17 owners of the Boston Red Sox...some of them want a return on their investment. The FO can not simply go out and pay whatever it costs to attract or retain players. They are not the Yankees. I think this is something Sox fans need to accept and with it understand that the Yankees will continue to try and buy themselves a championship...and that the Sox have to operate differently.

 

 

 

A dramatic overhaul is not needed unless it improves the team in the short, medium, and long terms, which is what the Teixeira deal would have done. It would have only cost them money but they decided not to use it.

 

And potentially would have impacted whatever plans they have long term.

[riverside sluggers]

They had $50-$60 million coming off the books, a tex signing wouldnt tie them up severely

[Dojji]

They had $50-$60 million coming off the books' date=' a tex signing wouldnt tie them up severely[/quote']

 

Nonetheless, needing to spend money solely on the basis of having money is a poor business model. When you've got a fund manager for a principal owner and a major recession underway it's very reasonable to expect spending to be cut back for the good and health of the ballclub.

[riverside sluggers]

So who's our left fielder for 2010? I highly doubt the Sox will lock up Bay now or go after Holliday

[Dipre]

So who's our left fielder for 2010? I highly doubt the Sox will lock up Bay now or go after Holliday

 

And how would you know that?

 

Because you've given us no indication that you have knowledge of the internal discussions the Sox have had about either player.

 

Assuming is a way to set yourself up to look like a moron, no offense meant, sir.

[Dojji]

Honestly IMHO the Sox should look into finding a good RF, not a LF. Drew's bat would be in the lineup more if he was playing the least strenuous outfield position and the new RF would probably be healthier.

 

But if they bring Bay back I have no issues.

[TheKilo]

What RF are they going to sign? The Yankees have holes in the corner OF positions after this year and will be filling them with choice FAs.

[jacksonianmarch]

I find that to be likely Kilo. Swisher is the only guys in the OF/DH discussion who is locked up. I have a feeling we will extend a contract to Damon as well and AJax likely will get the CF job. But that leaves one of the corner OF slots open and with Bay and Holliday hitting the market, you better believe we'll be the highest bidder on one of them.

[TheKilo]

If the Sox don't extend Bay I expect them to land both.

[jacksonianmarch]

I doubt we land both solely because our FO likes the idea of a solid leadoff guy and Damon has fit the bill for us. If he stays healthy and puts up a good yr, I wouldnt be surprised if we offer Johnny a short term deal to be the leadoff guy and the DH. if Johnny has a bad yr, then I think the yankees will be in on both. I also think that the Holliday thing is just friggin awesome. We get a chance to see what he can do in a pitchers park on a one yr deal with a team that has no chance of resigning him. If he proves to be a Coors flop, then we pass. If he proves he can hit .330 with 30 bombs, then we go balls out.

[diony]

I find that to be likely Kilo. Swisher is the only guys in the OF/DH discussion who is locked up. I have a feeling we will extend a contract to Damon as well and AJax likely will get the CF job. But that leaves one of the corner OF slots open and with Bay and Holliday hitting the market' date=' you better believe we'll be the highest bidder on one of them.[/quote']

 

They won't. If this offseason shows you something (Tex, Swish) is that they're aiming to get prime that can get better. Damon can barely play the field and his offense will only get worse.

 

It'll all depends of how Gardner and Ajax perform next year at the majors and AAA respectively. If Gardner pans out, he's a legit leadoff hitter. Ajax is still too raw to tell.

[jacksonianmarch]

Gardner is more raw than Jackson in terms of approach. Gardner's approach is walk first, which wont work in this league when you dont have any power to speak of. Jackson is the more professional hitter, capable of driving the ball all over the field and take the walk. I have no doubt Jackson will adjust and play well. The question is, will be be a .280-15HR guy as a Yankee or will he blossom into the 25HR .300+ hitter his talent indicates he should become.