Is Craig hansen Healthy?

[seabeachfred]

You don't make deals based on the Yankees. Thats how you end up with a $200M payroll and no championships. Overpaying for aging veterains is not the way to go. If you look at Helton's OPS the past 3 years its dropping like a rock' date=' 1.089, .979, 880. This isn't a gradual decline, this is .100 points of OPS dropping each year. He only hit 15 HRs last year, which is exactly 2 more than Youk. I would rather not pay a guy $20M a year until he's 38 to decline. Helton had a .781 OPS last year away from the friendly hitting confines of Coors Field. Way too much money to guarentee a guy that age, with that level of declining abilities. It would be a great pickup for one season but awful for the remainder of the contract. You don't overpay for one of the worst contracts in baseball.[/quote']

 

Helton was hurt last season and wasn't so swift physically in 2005 either. He is having a terrific spring hitting over 440 and driving the ball. Yes, we would be chancing it for five or six years but it might be worth the risk. I wouldn't even bring Helton up anymore if I knew the Red Sox had some desire to resign Mike Lowell but they seem not to be interested in doing so----at least at the present time. We ARE going to need either a 1B or 3B next year and what I don't want to see is us scrambling to get one,, fail to, and wind up with some Veras, Valentin or Nehring smelling up the place. Remember them? And there is no solid guy in either position that I know of who will be a FA this fall.

 

Amazing that on this board most posters are set set against getting Helton and on another I post on they can't get him fast enough. Well I gave my opinion and have to stand by it.

[jacksonianmarch]

Right now, they are content with Monkeybitch as their 1b. So long as he can outperform a .750OPS he would win the spot. He has power potential. Who knows if he will realize it.

[jacksonianmarch]

seabeach, if you want to go off spring training numbers, I have a Benny Agbayani and Enrique Wilson for you, if you will only empty your farm system.

[Mr Crunchy]

adam dunn is an english speaking wily mo pena

[seabeachfred]

This year it would improve them. In the future he'd be their dead weight instead of ours. Call it a wash.

 

I think we can drop the "you heard it here first" mumbo jumbo. Everyone knows the Yankees are out there. Everyone knows what their needs are. You aren't cluing anyone in to anything. So, you predicted the Yankees would be after Damon last December? How did you do it? Might as well quit the day job, Kreskin, and use your powers on the lottery.

 

If I'm given the option of a World Series now with a contract that will be a burden in the future, then, sure, I take the championship. But that's not how it works in the real world. Helton improves our chances, but guarantees us nothing, and has substantial risk attached to him. The new revenue sharing has made it so that fewer and fewer elite players are hitting the free agent market. So, when some of them do, and some of them will, Helton's contract could handcuff them from making the best offer to a Santana, Zambrano, or Cabrera.

 

We agree ORS that this year it would improve the team; it is next year that you're worried about. Fine, but I happen to think that we could get at least three solid years from the guy, and for that I would more than we willing to take my chances on a guy who is hitting over 440 this spring and driving the ball. Some times you have to take a chance; you've heard of the saying--nothing ventured, nothing gained? And I don't consider it a wash. I think it is an advantage to us. I know no more than you do how this would play out over five years; I just have to go with a gut feeling.

 

I also don't need to hear any of that dropping that day job crap either. You say Helton improves our chances but guarantees nothing. Nothing is guaranteed, but if your team is better with him the chances are better that you will go further. You say given the option of a WS Title now and maybe suffer the consequences of such a contract later you would grab it, but you really don't want to take such a chance. Sorry my friend, usually you are clear, to the point with no doubt where you stand, but your post is a lot of double talk nonsense. You have to take chances if you want to succeed.

 

And, oh yes, fewer and fewer players are entering the free agent market. No s***!!!! But you tell me that some will anyway. Yeh? Who? You know for sure. You know their current teams won't resign them. We saw that happen with Wells, Ramirez and others this off season. I would rather have that bird in the hand than the two in the bush.

 

Now I will concede this to you and all others who are leery of such a deal. If I could be sure that the Red Sox will resign Mike Lowell to a two or three year extention I would shitcan this Helton talk in two shakes of a monkey's ass. However, I have not even heard a hint of this and I know we will need a third baseman or a first baseman next year and I don't know of any that will be available. I'd rather strike while the iron is hot. Besides, all this may be moot anyway. I haven't even heard if Helton is still available. I just know the Yankees and if a panic mode sets it they go after any player who can help them. Helton would help them as Abreu did last season. I would rather have him if we could get him.

[seabeachfred]

Seabeach' date=' these arent your typial yankees. We dont have George running around trying to field the (as crunch would say) 1997 all star team. I dont want Helton. We have too many inflexible contracts to begin with and Cashman's MO has been flexibility in light of our newly "flush with talent" minor league system. First base is actually being kept warm for Duncan, IMO. Who to this point has had injury problems derail part of his career, but is still only 21-22 and has already smacked 60 minor league bombs. So in short, f*** Helton. You want him, you can have him. Our lineup will be the best in the game (barring injury) with or without him.[/quote']

 

Chris Duncan is it? Heard some good things about him, so much in fact that the Yankees tried to peddle him to the Dodgers two off seasons ago. That Duncan? Look, you know a helluva lot more about the Yankees than I do, but they are not guaranteed a super season any more than we are and if a couple of them have off years and the Yankees need help fast they will go after Helton in no time flat if they think he can help them. George stayed out of it last year, didn't he? Well, they still went out and payed a shitload of money to get Abreu. The Yankees will always to that if they smell pennant and please don't try to tell me different. I know at least that much about your team. Yes, if Helton was available I would want him. I don't know, though, if this conversation we're having is even worthwhile because Helton may not even be on the market anymore.

[seabeachfred]

Here's the problem with your analysis, Jacko. It's always surficial. You just looked at Dunn's stats and said to yourself, "It happened in the last year, so that must be it", without looking at the ages or levels. Dunn hit 3 levels, ending at the ML level, and raked at each stop when he was 21. Duncan, after being the AFL player of the year, couldn't handle AAA and had to repeat AA. It wasn't just injury. He couldn't handle the level. So, he'll get a second shot that Dunn didn't need.

 

Adam Dunn is a good ball player, but he has warts. His value is his power and patience. Duncan shows the same warts without the same power. Could he do it? Sure, anything can happen. But calling this guy, given his struggles, the future 1B of the $200M Yankees is complete fanboyism. If he can't crank out a consistent .900+ OPS, which is leaps and bounds above anything he has done thus far, then I'll change my mind. Until then, I think they'll find another option.

 

You bet your life ORS the Yankees will find another option and if the guy in Colorado is available, he's it. Do we resign Lowell and stop this ******** about Helton or do we take our chances and wind up with Veras or Valentin or Nehring type next year?

[seabeachfred]

Right now' date=' they are content with Monkeybitch as their 1b. So long as he can outperform a .750OPS he would win the spot. He has power potential. Who knows if he will realize it.[/quote']

 

Are you shittin' me or something? You think Menky is going to be the answer for them at first base? Please my friend, put the crack pipe down. No way he stays in that position and no way do the Yankees not look for someone better. If everyone else has a banner season they might get away with him there, but there is no guarantee that a couple of the Yanks won't have off years just as a couple of ours did last season. If that happens George and his sidekick GM will be on the phones lickity split with their checkbook in hand. You know that better than I do.

[TheKilo]

adam dunn is an english speaking wily mo pena

 

If WMP even approaches the plate discipline Adam Dunn has I'll do backflips.

 

 

 

We agree ORS that this year it would improve the team; it is next year that you're worried about. Fine, but I happen to think that we could get at least three solid years from the guy, and for that I would more than we willing to take my chances on a guy who is hitting over 440 this spring and driving the ball. Some times you have to take a chance; you've heard of the saying--nothing ventured, nothing gained? And I don't consider it a wash. I think it is an advantage to us. I know no more than you do how this would play out over five years; I just have to go with a gut feeling.

 

I also don't need to hear any of that dropping that day job crap either. You say Helton improves our chances but guarantees nothing. Nothing is guaranteed, but if your team is better with him the chances are better that you will go further. You say given the option of a WS Title now and maybe suffer the consequences of such a contract later you would grab it, but you really don't want to take such a chance. Sorry my friend, usually you are clear, to the point with no doubt where you stand, but your post is a lot of double talk nonsense. You have to take chances if you want to succeed.

 

And, oh yes, fewer and fewer players are entering the free agent market. No s***!!!! But you tell me that some will anyway. Yeh? Who? You know for sure. You know their current teams won't resign them. We saw that happen with Wells, Ramirez and others this off season. I would rather have that bird in the hand than the two in the bush.

 

Now I will concede this to you and all others who are leery of such a deal. If I could be sure that the Red Sox will resign Mike Lowell to a two or three year extention I would shitcan this Helton talk in two shakes of a monkey's ass. However, I have not even heard a hint of this and I know we will need a third baseman or a first baseman next year and I don't know of any that will be available. I'd rather strike while the iron is hot. Besides, all this may be moot anyway. I haven't even heard if Helton is still available. I just know the Yankees and if a panic mode sets it they go after any player who can help them. Helton would help them as Abreu did last season. I would rather have him if we could get him.

 

Two quick things about Helton. First, his contract could be the worst in baseball. 9 years, 141 million dollars? That kind of coin can really hurt a franchise even with the resources of the Red Sox. Was he worth $15 million last year? No. I don't know much about the AAV of his contract, whether or not he's being paid more now or later, but if his contract is back-loaded, you have to say no dice to someone who couldn't crack an .800 OPS away from Coors last year.

 

Second, to piggy-back onto SuperManny's earlier post, it seems that Helton is hitting a real decline as he ages. Losing 100 points of OPS a year does not sound like a ballplayer I want to invest in. And if his OBP is remaining constant (which IMO is his biggest selling point, gotta love a guy who gets on base 40% of the time), it means his slugging his dropping considerably. So you want to spend $15 mil per for a singles hitter?

 

Also, I REALLY don't like the idea of re-signing Lowell. But they may have to.

[TheKilo]

Eyechart can make up for a lot of holes in that NYY infield defense. That's his real value.

 

Like Jacko said, if he can put up between a .750-.800 OPS, the job's his.

[seabeachfred]

seabeach' date=' if you want to go off spring training numbers, I have a Benny Agbayani and Enrique Wilson for you, if you will only empty your farm system.[/quote']

 

Jackson, there is no one I respect more on this board than you and ORS because you don't pull any punches and let me have it when you think it's appropriate. I respect the hell out of that. But today you two are off the wall with some of the things I've heard. You sit there are try and compare Benny Agbayani and Eric Wilson with Todd Helton???? Are you really feeling well today? Helton is one of the greatest natural hitters in the past quarter century and would be a great improvement for either of our teams. Please Jackson, you can do a helluva lot better than that.

 

I know I'm in the very small minority with this Helton thing. Even Crunch is dead set against it and we usually are on the same wave length on things like this. Frankly, I am more worried about our bullpen than getting Helton, but I just feel the Red Sox are going to let Lowell walk and we need someone to play either first of third next year. We sign Lowell and you will hear not another peep from me about Todd.

[ORS]

You say Helton improves our chances but guarantees nothing. Nothing is guaranteed' date=' but if your team is better with him the chances are better that you will go further. You say given the option of a WS Title now and maybe suffer the consequences of such a contract later you would grab it, but you really don't want to take such a chance. Sorry my friend, usually you are clear, to the point with no doubt where you stand, but your post is a lot of double talk nonsense. You have to take chances if you want to succeed.[/quote']

It's pretty simple, Fred. I say I'd do it if it's assured to happen. Since it can't be assured, I don't do it.

[jacksonianmarch]

Seabeach, here is the deal. I am a die hard yankee fan and would rue the day Todd Helton was traded for anything more than a paperweight and a six pack of Natty lite.

 

Helton has the roidy rumors floating around. He has seen a significant drop in power while playing in the best hitters park ever created. His health has been declining and the dreaded mid 30s back injury has set in. His average dropped to the lowest level it had been in yrs. Right now the guy is pretty much good for .300 15HR and a .400OBP. Sound familiar? That is Kevin Youkilis territory. And if you want to have a 34 yr old left handed Kevin Youkilis in Fenway for the next 5 yrs at 90 mil then be my guest. IF, and that is a huge IF, he returns to form, you have a steal. But sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.

 

Helton is a left handed 1b who is losing power as he is aging. Right now he is a high average lefty who takes pitches well but no longer hits the long ball with great frequency. He is not worth being locked up to 39 in the ALE, especially when he wont have the DH to fall into as he gets older. You want him, go get him, and while you are at it, deal some solid players for him. But right now, he is a major gamble that could hinder you from making moves in the future.

[a700hitter]

When I hear this debate over whether a WS championship is worth the risk of Helton's huge contract, I cringe. First of all, we wouldn't be taking his whole contract. Maybe we'd have to pay him as much as 13 or 14 million a year. He's certainly worth it if he reverts to form. Second, if we don't win a championship with him in the first year or two, we could trade him. Unless he falls off a cliff this year, someone will want him. We may have to eat 2-3 million a year, but so what. That's what a POS like Tavarez or Cora makes. It's chump change to the Red Sox and it wouldn't impede other dealings or signings. It's not an all or nothing proposition so why do you guys weigh a WS Championship against a 5 year huge contract. Those are not the only options.

[jacksonianmarch]

think about it 700, if he doesnt bring a championship, then he becomes a bear on the salary sheet. And, he holds a full NT, so if you get him, he may never want to leave.

[CrespoBlows]

If no one wants Helton at the price the Rockies are currently offering, with the exception of the Red Sox, what makes you think the Red Sox can deal him?

[jacksonianmarch]

If no one wants Helton at the price the Rockies are currently offering' date=' with the exception of the Red Sox, what makes you think the Red Sox can deal him?[/quote']

 

totally agree.

[seabeachfred]

Hey, you guys slug it out over this phantom thread. Helton is not coming here. There is no deal in the works from what I've heard. Not a smattering of a rumor. I'm going to concentrate on this season and worry about 2008 after the World Series.

 

There is some good news to report. Steve Phillips just predicted the Yankees are going to win the AL East and if Pavano comes through run away with the title. Gentlemen, our chances just increased 50% with those pearls of his.

[a700hitter]

think about it 700' date=' if he doesnt bring a championship, then he becomes a bear on the salary sheet. And, he holds a full NT, so if you get him, he may never want to leave.[/quote']I think he'd waive the NT clause as a condition of coming to Boston.

[a700hitter]

Hey, you guys slug it out over this phantom thread. Helton is not coming here. There is no deal in the works from what I've heard. Not a smattering of a rumor. I'm going to concentrate on this season and worry about 2008 after the World Series.

 

There is some good news to report. Steve Phillips just predicted the Yankees are going to win the AL East and if Pavano comes through run away with the title. Gentlemen, our chances just increased 50% with those pearls of his.

You are right Fred. He just sealed the Yankees doom. He's always wrong. Two years ago he predicted that Sosa hit 50 HRs for the Orioles.

[ORS]

I heard he did a complete waffle today during the game's broadcast on ESPN. Before the game started he said Dice-K looked like nothing special and he'd be a disappointment. At the end of his outing, he said he'd be the staff ace. The guy is 500% buffoon.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think he'd waive the NT clause as a condition of coming to Boston.

 

right, he would waive it once. He would still have it. He would still have to waive it to be moved again.

[jacksonianmarch]

I heard he did a complete waffle today during the game's broadcast on ESPN. Before the game started he said Dice-K looked like nothing special and he'd be a disappointment. At the end of his outing' date=' he said he'd be the staff ace. The guy is 500% buffoon.[/quote']

 

Steve Phillips is a douche. He does exactly what Gammons and the rest do. Pick the yankees before the season then bash them once the season starts until the season finishes. Yet we cannot call them homers cause they chose the yankees in the preseason.

[a700hitter]

right' date=' he would waive it once. He would still have it. He would still have to waive it to be moved again.[/quote']Theo would have to insist on a permanent waiver. Maybe he would be able to rule out a few teams.

[ORS]

Isn't that a big no-no for the MLBPA?

[jacksonianmarch]

Theo would have to insist on a permanent waiver. Maybe he would be able to rule out a few teams.

 

Regardless, if Helton has hardly any market right now, and he gets worse to the point where the sox want him gone, what makes you think he will have a market? If you get him, you will either be happy with him or be stuck with him. There wont be any dumping.

[jacksonianmarch]

Isn't that a big no-no for the MLBPA?

 

yes, the sox would have to give him an incentive. I would assume that would be considered lessening the value of a contract.

[Mr Crunchy]

steve phillips is a latino woman trapped in a blonde mans body

the anti robin roberts if you will

 

he sucks blows and bends over for the rubber fist

however

i have yet to be in the company of a woman who sees him on tv without commenting on how cute he is

he needs a scar across the face or maybe a weekend with john kruk and dibble

 

what exactly is his claim to fame outside his purty hair??

he was a failure as far as im concerned as a gm

does he have anything on his resume that indicates he knows the game??

[a700hitter]

Regardless' date=' if Helton has hardly any market right now, and he gets worse to the point where the sox want him gone, what makes you think he will have a market? If you get him, you will either be happy with him or be stuck with him. There wont be any dumping.[/quote']If he fell off a cliff, that could happen. I don't think it will happen. He's 32 not 42. I'd risk that he'd perform well enough that he'd still have a market after 1 or 2 years.

[jacksonianmarch]

steve phillips is a latino woman trapped in a blonde mans body

the anti robin roberts if you will

 

he sucks blows and bends over for the rubber fist

however

i have yet to be in the company of a woman who sees him on tv without commenting on how cute he is

he needs a scar across the face or maybe a weekend with john kruk and dibble

 

what exactly is his claim to fame outside his purty hair??

he was a failure as far as im concerned as a gm

does he have anything on his resume that indicates he knows the game??

 

he needs a night with the walrus.