Oden or Durant?

[ksushi]

Alright, Celts fans, lets run down the best case scenario. The Celts keep bombing, we wind up with a high pick in the draft. For the purposes of conversation, lets say we don't get robbed by a lottery ball and wind up with the #1.

 

Who do you take with the pick? I'm guessing either Oden or Durant, but if there is someone else throw them out there, but basically its gonna be between these two...

 

Personally, I like Oden, but I'm not too basketball saavy anymore, I need to get back into it. I was wondering what you guys think...

[YanksHater213]

If we get the number one pick, and they both go, they have to pick Oden.

 

How many teams in the NBA do you know that have dominant centers? 1, 2? Those teams ALREADY have the advantage over any other team. Point guards and wing players are so much easier to replace, and even get than dominant big men. That is precisely why the Celtics need to pick Oden. The Center position is so thin in the NBA, especially in the East, and a frontline of Pierce, Jefferson and Oden might become one of the best two way forward groups in the NBA. The Celtics are LOADED with wing players. I realize this isn't the topic of conversation but I wanted to bring it up regardless. Tony Allen, Gerald Green, Paul Pierce, etc. are all very good wing players. Why get another, when we can get a great center in Oden who will be the perfect compliment to Al and Paul because he won't demand a Durant number of touches on the offensive end, and will completely dominate on the defensive end.

 

Finding complimentary pieces to a dominating center is ten times easier than finding complimentary pieces for a wing player.

 

Trust me, when your team gets deep into the playoffs, the Center position will be exploited if you don't have a top notch one, especially in the Western Conference.

 

2006: Suns lost out to Mavs, Pistons lost out to Heat

2005: Suns lost out to Spurs.

 

Just in the last two years, 3 of the four teams who lost in the conference finals lost because the other team dominated them with big men. Its a simple concept, especially since you can find talented wing players on the free agent market every year.

 

You will obviously say you would take Durant if you're just a casual basketball fan that maybe watches a game here and there and looks at stats. Throw stats out the window, Durant is obviously the best player on that team, and commands how they play. Oden is on a team that is a National Championship contender with a lot of good pieces including a great point man in Conley Jr. and a great wing player/PF combo in Cook and Harris.

 

You'll look at the stats and Durants will wow you. What you don't see in the box score is the impact they have on the game. Oden's impact on the game is so much bigger than Durants. Durant is flashy and gets the stats, Oden still puts up great stats, but has a bigger and more important affect on the game. He puts fear in guys driving to the hoop. Just last night he had two beastly blocks, and Purdue wasn't driving often in fear of Oden. Teams don't have that fear of Durant. Sure ,they'll double Durant; they double Oden too.

 

Durant will put up better NBA statistics, but Oden will be an even better player. It's like David Robinson for example: one of the best centers of all time. In this era where wing players dominate, his accomplishments are diminished because he never put up the "ESPN Top 10" dunks or moves, and didn't score 30 PPG.

 

I love how Durant plays, and he will be a star too, but you CAN'T pass on a center that only comes around every so often like Oden.

 

Name me the last team who won a championship without a dominant or at least very good big man. The Bulls in '98? Even then, those teams were completely different since they had Jordan. Without any Jordan teams, because having MJ would transcend having any great big man, and it's the 1990 Pistons. Shaq, Duncan, Olajuwon, etc, without them the Lakers, Spurs, Rockets, Heat, never win championships.

 

Lets just look at this more in depth:

2006 Finals: Miami Heat (Shaq) def. Dallas Mavericks (Dirk) 4-2.

2005 Finals: San Antonio Spurs (Duncan) def. Detroit Pistons (Sheed/Wallace) 4-3.

2004 Finals: Detroit Pistons (Sheed/Wallace) def. Los Angeles Lakers (Shaq) 4-1.

2003 Finals: San Antonio Spurs (Duncan) def. New Jersey Nets (can you consider K-Mart here? 17/8 that year) 4-2.

2002 Finals: Los Angeles Lakers (Shaq) def. New Jersey Nets (no big man, swept. coincidence?) 4-0.

2001 Finals: Los Angeles Lakers (Shaq) def. Philadelphia 76ers (Motumbo/Ratliff had very very good years) 4-1.

2000 Finals: Los Angeles Lakers (Shaq) def. Indiana Pacers (Dale Davis??? haha averaged a double double) 4-2.

1999 Finals: San Antonio Spurs (Duncan) def. New York Knicks (Ewing) 4-1.

 

The list goes on... Bulls with Rodman, Jazz with Malone, Sonics with Kemp, Rockets with Olajuwon, Magic with Shaq, Pistons with Laimbeer and Rodman, Suns with Barkely, Lakers with Abdul-Jabbar, Worthy, and Wilt, the Celtics with Russell, etc.

 

Look at the last 8 finals winners. Seven of them have been by two of the most dominant big men of this era in Shaq and Duncan, and with the Pistons being the only one without them, still had a two headed scoring/rebounding monster in Sheed and Ben.

 

YOU DO NOT PASS ON A CENTER LIKE ODEN FOR A WING PLAYER LIKE DURANT. (yes i threw this post together from other posts by me in another thread )

[Soxfan1]

This is where Yankshate is productive.

[NateGrey]

The Bulls in '98? Even then' date=' those teams were completely different since they had Jordan. Without any Jordan teams, because having MJ would transcend having any great big man, and it's the 1990 Pistons. [/quote']

 

.. What if ..

 

Oden = Sam Bowie

 

&

 

Durant = MJ

 

.. ? ..

[HeadOfSoxNation]

D-U-R-A-N-T

[ksushi]

And what if Oden is the next shaq?

[YanksHater213]

1. Oden =/= Bowie. Oden is a much more polished defender than Bowie ever was and much more efficient on the offensive end. During his college career at Kentucky he shot around 50% whereas Oden is shooting 63% with his OPPOSITE HAND. Oden has an NBA body and is going is the most dominating presence down low the NCAA has seen in a long time. Comparing Oden and Bowie is like comparing apples and oranges - makes no sense.

 

1a. Oden is David Robinson, not Sam Bowie. He has the size and body. Great athlete, can run the floor and is a great leaper. Has the best footwork I've ever seen any college player have and is very intelligent when getting position in the post. He protects the ball very well, finishes with authority, doesn't bite on fakes, blocks shots, and puts fear in opposing guards driving the lane. His defense is NBA ready. He has great hands and can get positional rebounds, and can leap for them. Only knocks on him are that his post moves aren't very polished, and it's been fun watching his moves progress and how far he has come offensively with both his back to the basket and facing up (even though he still looks uncomfortable facing up).

 

2. If we have the choice between Oden or Durant (which would mean getting the #1 pick, and both going into the draft, the latter of which is more likely), choosing Oden would be a killer to the Celtics future. It makes no sense to pass on a guy who can dominate as much as Oden, to make an even bigger log jam at the wing position where they already have three excellent players for now AND the future in Pierce, Green and Allen.

 

3. I have yet to see anyone give decent evidence as to why it would be smart for the Celtics to take Durant over Oden.

[jacksonianmarch]

Oden is dominant. Consider this, the guy is absolutely nasty and he cannot even shoot with his shooting hand because of surgery!! We will see the real Oden by the time the league championships are going on.

[schillingouttheks]

Oden.

 

"But Durant's numbers are so good and blah blah..." NO.

 

Oden.

[Cocos Disciples]

Agreed. Oden.

[BoSox34]

They're both ridiculous and the Celtics would be incredibly fortunate to get either one but Oden probably has a better chance at being a dominant force in the NBA. Since when are you a Celtics fan, Ksushi?

[jacksonianmarch]

I am not a big NBA fan. I hardly root for anyone, but the first BBall game I went to as a kid was a Celtics game at the Harford Civic center. So I am somewhat a Celts fan and a Knicks fan. But I really dont care either way.

[Manny Goes Boom]

If Boston gets the number one pick, I'd have to agree with the majority of the posters here and say Oden. Because the Celtics are already set at the wing position, and have no depth at the Center/PF positions and Oden would be an impact player there. But if another team got the #1 pick it could be different depending on what their current situation is.

[Beckett95]

Id take either and just hope the C's get one of the first 2 picks in the draft.

 

But i guess if they got the first pick, you have to take Oden cause hes a legit center, which is hard to find these days.

 

so ya id take oden for the same reasons yankshater said, but wont be upset at all if we ended up with Durant.

[See Red]

It depends on what you need. I like what Durant brings to the table and he hasn't even scratched his potential.

 

As you all know, I have the great honor of watching Carmelo Anthony play just about every game. The one thing you notice is that 'Melo creates mismatches like just about no other player in the league can. You try and match up against his size and he destroys you with his speed. You put a speedier player on him and 'Melo uses his size to beat you. Once Durant bulks up, and he will eventually, that's how I imagine he'll be. He's got the ability to play down low and he can stretch out the floor and pull down boards and he's doing it right now without an NBA size body, which Oden already has.

 

I like Durant. Give me a player that can knock down a three and then beat you in the low post in the next possession.

[Mr Crunchy]

the celtics allowed detroit to shoot 68% thru 3 quarters and were down 25 in the 4th

 

we need the better defensive player and based on what ive seen from oden hes the man

seems to me we've drafted nothing but swing men over the last 10 years

we got a shitload of 6'6 6'7 players who cant play nba defense

durant is a scoring machine but i'd prefer the legit bigman

[CrespoBlows]

I'll go with Durant.

 

Look at the two players right now. When you look at Greg Oden, you know he won't get any bigger. He looks like he's forty, and his body type is clearly indicitive of a guy who won't likely mature any further.

 

Durant, on the other hand, looks like a 17 year old kid. He's not even close to being done with his physical maturity. When this guy bulks up, he's going to be absolutely massive. He's already averaging a double-double with his body size. Picture his statistics if he was at his peak in terms of physical development. This guy might be averaging 40 points, and 15 rebounds a game.

 

Forget his statistics, picture his presence on the basketball court with his size, speed, and shot threats. You can't guard someone like this.

 

Oden's going to be a very good player in the NBA, but Durant's peak is so unbelievably high, you got to take the chance on Durant. I think we're looking at Kevin Garnett, with Nowitzki's ability to bury three's.

[Mr Crunchy]

its hard not to like his(durants) game

he had 37-22 againt ttech??

ya

thats good

but watching the celtics its obvious to me that they need a defensive presense and they need it now

oden will be a 20/10/5 block guy the day he shows up in the nba and with the celtics current version of ole defense hes the man i feel would turn them around faster

 

my god the celtics suck

 

quite frankly

the more i see them both the more i like them both big time

i dont think we lose either way

[BoSox34]

I'll go with Durant.

When you look at Greg Oden, you know he won't get any bigger. He looks like he's forty, and his body type is clearly indicitive of a guy who won't likely mature any further.

 

Because the fact that he looks like he's 40 really makes a difference and it really held back Bill Russell from being a legendary force in the NBA...

[Mr Crunchy]

oden is 19,on the road every week,starring millions of dollars in front money in his face

banging any woman he wants

 

and he has a 3.7 gpa??

who here could maintain that kind of a schedule and hang #s like that up in class?

hes not taking basket weaving aids awareness of phys ed either.

i believe hes in finance

 

that tells you the man isnt going to be bothered by the obstacles the nba can create for a young guy and will be focused on his game.

also

the big 10 isnt really a scoring league either

teams like wisconsin indiana and michigan state play hellacious defense

his offense will come

 

then we have durant

37-22 agains ttech and 30 a nite against everyone else??

 

i like both but we need the defensive stopper out there 1st

[CrespoBlows]

Because the fact that he looks like he's 40 really makes a difference and it really held back Bill Russell from being a legendary force in the NBA...

 

Wow. You completely missed the point. I'm surprised your limitations in your mental aspects didn't hold you back from being able to type.

 

The point is, Greg Oden is done growing, the guy you're looking at right now, is the guy you'll see 20 years from now.

[jacksonianmarch]

except in 20 yrs he will officially have old balls.

[TheKilo]

oden is 19,on the road every week,starring millions of dollars in front money in his face

banging any woman he wants

 

and he has a 3.7 gpa??

who here could maintain that kind of a schedule and hang #s like that up in class?

hes not taking basket weaving aids awareness of phys ed either.

i believe hes in finance

 

that tells you the man isnt going to be bothered by the obstacles the nba can create for a young guy and will be focused on his game.

also

the big 10 isnt really a scoring league either

teams like wisconsin indiana and michigan state play hellacious defense

his offense will come

 

then we have durant

37-22 agains ttech and 30 a nite against everyone else??

 

i like both but we need the defensive stopper out there 1st

 

Emeka Okafor also graduated from UConn, in 3 years, with a degree in finance and a GPA similar to 3.7.

 

If he was Greg Oden's size...oh man.

 

That being said, I think you take Oden in the draft, but the gap is so close either pick would be a good one.

[Mr Crunchy]

agreed

[BoSox34]

Wow. You completely missed the point. I'm surprised your limitations in your mental aspects didn't hold you back from being able to type.

 

The point is, Greg Oden is done growing, the guy you're looking at right now, is the guy you'll see 20 years from now.

 

WTF? "He's done growing"....OK.....he's 7'1'', 280 pounds and he's only 19. I guarantee he'll get stronger, more agile, and become an overall better athlete in the coming years. Hakeem Olujuwan was 7'0'', 255 pounds. Dikembe Mutombo was 7'2'', 260 pounds. Alonzo Mourning is 6'10'', 260 pounds. David Robinson was 7'1'', 250 pounds..Duncan...6'11'' 260 pounds. The point is that not every dominant game changing center has to be 7'6'' like Yao or a Tank like Shaq to have a legendary career at the center position in the NBA. One of the more appealing parts about Oden is his size and strength and to use his size against him is ridiculous.

[TheKilo]

WTF? "He's done growing"....OK.....he's 7'1''' date=' 280 pounds and he's only 19. I guarantee he'll get stronger, more agile, and become an overall better athlete in the coming years. Hakeem Olujuwan was 7'0'', 255 pounds. Dikembe Mutombo was 7'2'', 260 pounds. Alonzo Mourning is 6'10'', 260 pounds. David Robinson was 7'1'', 250 pounds..Duncan...6'11'' 260 pounds. The point is that not every dominant game changing center has to be 7'6'' like Yao or a Tank like Shaq to have a legendary career at the center position in the NBA. One of the more appealing parts about Oden is his size and strength and to use his size against him is ridiculous.[/quote']

 

The way in which Durant can physically change is far greater than Oden can however.

[BoSox34]

The way in which Durant can physically change is far greater than Oden can however.

 

I agree that Durant has an outstanding overall game and that he could potentially help make this a team with the ability to go deep into the playoffs, I just think that a dominant center has a bigger impact in the game of basketball (especially when we have Pierce and Jefferson) than a dominant hybrid SF-PF.

[TheKilo]

I agree that Durant has an outstanding overall game and that he could potentially help make this a team with the ability to go deep into the playoffs' date=' I just think that a dominant center has a bigger impact in the game of basketball (especially when we have Pierce and Jefferson) than a dominant hybrid SF-PF.[/quote']

 

I said I'd take Oden, but I really think you're selling Durant a bit short here. The gap really isn't all that far between the two.

[BoSox34]

They're both ridiculous and the Celtics would be incredibly fortunate to get either one.

 

I agree that Durant has an outstanding overall game and that he could potentially help make this a team with the ability to go deep into the playoffs.

 

I'd really like to see where I'm "selling him a bit short". I have nothing but praise and optimism for both players and they both look like they have the ability and potential to be dominant players in the NBA.

[TheKilo]

I'd really like to see where I'm "selling him a bit short". I have nothing but praise and optimism for both players and they both look like they have the ability and potential to be dominant players in the NBA.

 

He's not a typical PF-SF player though...he has the skill set to be Kevin Garnett.

 

I'd take Garnett over Hakeem Olajuwon. He's a more complete player.