Pineiro Expected To Sign

[scaffolds]

I'd use Wakey as a #3. I mean a low 4's ERA and 15 wins is not impossible for this guy. If everyone can recall we used him in the top of the rotation for the past few seasons.

 

Wakefield is what he is, mainly a innings eater, but he could very inconsistent, at best he is a #4, and he may win 15 wins but its very unlikely.

[TGov]

Pineiro would be a great for the Sox, I know he sucked last year but I remember a few years ago when he was really good... he does have great stuff and good for the Sox on going out and getting extra pitching... we dont want what happened last year to happen again...

[TGov]

Wakefield is what he is' date=' mainly a innings eater, but he could very inconsistent, at best he is a #4, and he may win 15 wins but its very unlikely.[/quote']

 

I agree with wake being inconsistent, He's a great veteran pitcher BUT, his knuckleball gets flat at time and batter take advantage, and he only has a low/moderate fastball and an uncle charlie other than that its the knuckleball... he could be great sure, but it's not so much Wake being consistent than it is the knuckleball he throws...

[jacksonianmarch]

Pineiro would be a great for the Sox' date=' I know he sucked last year but I remember a few years ago when he was really good... he does have great stuff and good for the Sox on going out and getting extra pitching... we dont want what happened last year to happen again...[/quote']

 

Piniero hasnt been good since 03. He has worsened badly the past 2 yrs. His stuff has taken a turn for the worse. He is essentially an expensive reclamation project. If it works, and he reclaims his past glory, then this is a steal. But I dont think those chances are too high as of right now.

[jacksonianmarch]

I agree with wake being inconsistent' date=' He's a great veteran pitcher BUT, his knuckleball gets flat at time and batter take advantage, and he only has a low/moderate fastball and an uncle charlie other than that its the knuckleball... he could be great sure, but it's not so much Wake being consistent than it is the knuckleball he throws...[/quote']

 

low/moderate fastball? If he has a moderate fastball, then I have 5 plus pitches and am ready to sign a 10 mil a yr deal with the yanks.

[CrespoBlows]

what is worse is watching a masterfully pitched ballgame get blown by a s*** closer on a repeated basis. A bad closer loses games that you have a lead in late' date=' ie games you should win. Bad closers torpedo good teams.[/quote']

 

Todd Jones didn't, neither did Isringhausen. If the Red Sox can find a pitcher who puts up a 3.50 ERA, he can close, and the Red Sox will be fine.

[jacksonianmarch]

Todd Jones didn't' date=' neither did Isringhausen. If the Red Sox can find a pitcher who puts up a 3.50 ERA, he can close, and the Red Sox will be fine.[/quote']

 

Jones still converted 86% of his save opps (right there with Paps). StL won 83 games in one of the worst divisions in the history of baseball and caught fire at the right time, so they arent the best example of how to build a successful team

 

Timlin has a 63.7% career conversion rate

Tavares has a 47.8% career conversion rate

Donnelly is 4 for 14 in his career.

Pineiro is 1 for 2.

MDC has never had a save opp.

Okajima who knows.

Romero has 2 career saves.

[riverside sluggers]

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=175264

Updated news from the Boston Herald, Piniero will in fact most likely be the opening day closer for the Red Sox. An option for 2008 will be triggered if he finishes 35 games.

 

Long Man/Spot Starter- Julian Tavarez

Middle Relief- JC Romero

Manny Delcarmen

Hideki Okajima

Set Up Men- Brendan Donnelly

Mike Timlin

Closer- Joel Pineiro

 

Hope this is an under the radar signing, the 25-man team is set now lets just look towards spring training. Pitchers and catchers report in 6 weeks

[Cityofchampions33]

That might explain what the Sox thought when they sigend him for 4 mill garunteed. I think we have a good shot this works out, and out of everyone we had Pinerio is certainly better in my mind for the closer's role.

[ORS]

Of course it is because of Rivera. His presence pushes solid middle relievers into middle relief roles. We arent relying on old middle relievers on the downslope of their career for closing duties in quite possibly the toughest place to play in all of baseball.

 

Also, we are doing what the sox should have been doing. We are stockpiling young arms and putting them in low pressure situations to begin with. The sox should have done that with Hansen. They should have done that with MDC. They didnt. They went right from the minors to setup roles. They cracked under the pressure. If we went into this season without Farns, Proctor, insert any other reliable reliever we may acquire from now until the season and had to rely on Bruney, Britton, or Medders as SU men, then I'd be worried. But these kids will likely see 40-50 innings this season of variable pressure which will only be to their benefit. AND, all of them have options left should they stumble. And, all of them could step up into more formidable roles should they play well.

You don't watch the games, do you? Hansen and MDC were both used in 6th/7th inning situations last year prior to getting the set-up spot. Both looked good in the lower pressure spots early in the year, and when Timlin went down, along with Tavarez and Seanez being unreliable, Tito went to the people performing at the time. This is exactly the scenario you claim should have happened. Don't chime in with your inanities when they don't match reality.

[riverside sluggers]

That might explain what the Sox thought when they sigend him for 4 mill garunteed. I think we have a good shot this works out' date=' and out of everyone we had Pinerio is certainly better in my mind for the closer's role.[/quote']

 

Hey another plus is that he has done a good job at handling the Yankees

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6549/splits;_ylt=AlRFjMWOafWO_G79crJiTvaFCLcF?year=career&type=Pitching

This past season in 2 games (1 start) he posted a 3.18 ERA. In 11 games (8 starts) vs New York he has a career 3.38 ERA

[hoke3182]

a bit pricey for buillpen help, but i think we added that spot starter that jacksonianmarch said we didn't have

[elsrbueno]

Hey another plus is that he has done a good job at handling the Yankees

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6549/splits;_ylt=AlRFjMWOafWO_G79crJiTvaFCLcF?year=career&type=Pitching

This past season in 2 games (1 start) he posted a 3.18 ERA. In 11 games (8 starts) vs New York he has a career 3.38 ERA

 

Another nugget I pull from those splits is that he's WAY better at home (Seattle's a pitcher's park) than on the road over his career.

 

He also in general wasn't a very good pitcher last year. Now, horrible starters become dominant relievers all the time. It's partly because relieving is easier, partly because it's a much more random sample size than starting (which is why it fluctuates from season to season). I'd be concerned if Piniero was my #5 starter, but seeing as the incentives are based on games finished, they signed him with designed towards giving him a shot as the closer.

 

To me he doesn't seem like a closer type. High homer and walk rates, low strikeout rates to me spells disaster in relief. But maybe the scouts saw something they liked, or some delivery flaw they thought they could fix?

[jacksonianmarch]

You don't watch the games' date=' do you? Hansen and MDC were both used in 6th/7th inning situations last year prior to getting the set-up spot. Both looked good in the lower pressure spots early in the year, and when Timlin went down, along with Tavarez and Seanez being unreliable, Tito went to the people performing at the time. This is exactly the scenario you claim should have happened. Don't chime in with your inanities when they don't match reality.[/quote']

 

Hansen was good initially? So his 6+ ERA in his first month of work was an aberration? His numbers after 2 months were still poor (4.58ERA .290+ BAA).

 

Now I understand why he was brought in. I understand why they had to do what they had to do. But the fact is, we shouldnt have to do that repeatedly to a young reliever. We arent going to be stepping them up into pressure roles after crap performances in s*** roles. Other options are available. Therefore, they will be moved up only based on merit rather than need (unless some sort of catastrophic bullpen ailment hit). That's my point ORS.

[jacksonianmarch]

Another nugget I pull from those splits is that he's WAY better at home (Seattle's a pitcher's park) than on the road over his career.

 

He also in general wasn't a very good pitcher last year. Now, horrible starters become dominant relievers all the time. It's partly because relieving is easier, partly because it's a much more random sample size than starting (which is why it fluctuates from season to season). I'd be concerned if Piniero was my #5 starter, but seeing as the incentives are based on games finished, they signed him with designed towards giving him a shot as the closer.

 

To me he doesn't seem like a closer type. High homer and walk rates, low strikeout rates to me spells disaster in relief. But maybe the scouts saw something they liked, or some delivery flaw they thought they could fix?

 

el sr, not necessarily true. Reliever is a chore that is not necessarily for everyone. A lot of pitchers cannot throw 3-4 times a week and get by without a sore arm. Also, repetition of delivery when tired is harder too, and relievers who get leaned upon pitch contantly when tired. Now, I will agree that less is required. While a serviceable starter requires 3 pitches, maybe 4, a superstar reliever can get by on 2, 1 if you have an lights out pitch (like Mo). It all depends on how he takes to it. Last season, there was an improvement, albeit not a great one from starting to relieving. But he could be a steal if he can recapture his stuff of old (as he still is young) and be a force out there.

[seabeachfred]

Pineiro would be a great for the Sox' date=' I know he sucked last year but I remember a few years ago when he was really good... he does have great stuff and good for the Sox on going out and getting extra pitching... we dont want what happened last year to happen again...[/quote']

 

TGov, it doesn't seem we ought to run short on pitchers this time around since Theo seems to be signing everyone in sight. That is, except for the closer we need. You're right about one thing, though. Piniero was good a few years ago but my question is what does he have left. You know, he got exactly ONE save last year. Doesn't sound to me like this is the guy I want in there against the Yankees in the ninth inning with a 4-3 lead.

[seabeachfred]

His stuff dropped off from his stellar campaign a few yrs ago, but he did have a short, successful stint in the pen last yr. I like the idea as his upside in the pen may have never been reached, but 4 mil guaranteed is way too much for a guy whose only other serious suitor was Pittsburgh. Also, the sox need a closer, and this guy is not that. They already have a pen full of middle relievers and fringe major leaguers, they didnt need another one.

 

You know what they say, throw enough s*** against the wall, something will stick. The sox better hope that wall is like flypaper, and not teflon.

 

Jack, if we have enough "B" games and split squads this spring we might give these plethora of pitchers Theo has come up with a chance to show what they can do. However, it looks to be like this is just a lot of quantity without all that much quality. What the hell has Piniero done the last couple of years to warrant the possible closer's role? Then there's headcase Hernandez? I still think we have a ways to go before we can say we will beat the Yankees this coming season.::dunno: :dunno: :thumbdown :thumbdown

[Mr Crunchy]

the pen will be less used this season than last

with this there should be no doubt

with paps,a psuedo healthy wake,schilling and matsusaka

the innings left for the bullpen should be much less than last year when our 4-5 starters rarely saw the 4th inning taxing our aged and heavily used bullpen to death

 

im looking for the jules to be more effective this year as well

dont most 56 year old set up men placed into the starting rotation succeed??

[SCM33]

Theos bullpen every year:

 

Throw a whole lot of s*** against th walls....see what sticks. I guess this SEA signing is better than the Halama one he tried to sell to us?

[jacksonianmarch]

Theos bullpen every year:

 

Throw a whole lot of s*** against th walls....see what sticks. I guess this SEA signing is better than the Halama one he tried to sell to us?

 

I forgot about Halama, the underrated soft tossing, middle of the bullpen innings eater who ate a lot of s*** when he was in Boston.

[seabeachfred]

SCM, ever think the Front Office is taking all of us for a ride? I'm beginning to think they believe we are a bunch of rubes that will believe anything. Runny Hernandez? Joel Piniero? Manny Delcarmen? The only thing that will stick against the wall with these guys is the smell. I will tell you this. Without a closer and a J.D. Drew batting fifth for our offense, we might be looking at another lost season unless the strating pitching is so fantastic as to rate as one of the best staffs in AL history.