Yankees trying for Clemens, earlier start to season?

[TheKilo]

it wouldnt be a couple mil. They are at max salary. Santana will double his current salary on the open market (10 mil right now). Minny has no prayer of inking him when they'll have Mauer and Morneau to worry about.

 

If the Yankees have any hope of landing Santana, Hughes and Tabata will be on their way out.

[jacksonianmarch]

If the Yankees have any hope of landing Santana' date=' Hughes and Tabata will be on their way out.[/quote']

 

I wont be so sure. I have no idea who will be in on it and who would be offering what. Until then, we shall see.

[TheKilo]

I wont be so sure. I have no idea who will be in on it and who would be offering what. Until then' date=' we shall see.[/quote']

 

Well, in order to get the best pitcher and the game, the team who gets him will need to give back top tier minor league talent.

 

That is of course, what you say is true that Minny won't pony up the $$ to re-sign him.

[jacksonianmarch]

Well, in order to get the best pitcher and the game, the team who gets him will need to give back top tier minor league talent.

 

That is of course, what you say is true that Minny won't pony up the $$ to re-sign him.

 

well, like I said, if Johan is dealt in 08, then I dont see Hughes being a part of the equation as I think Hughes will have already won a rotation spot. If Johan were put on the block right now, then Hughes is certainly on that block.

 

By 2008, we might have Hughes in the starting rotation with 4 other top 10 talents in AAA and Chamberlain in AA. That would make us be able to send them a package of 2-4 top tier pitching prospects while sparing the need to send Hughes.

[TheKilo]

well, like I said, if Johan is dealt in 08, then I dont see Hughes being a part of the equation as I think Hughes will have already won a rotation spot. If Johan were put on the block right now, then Hughes is certainly on that block.

 

By 2008, we might have Hughes in the starting rotation with 4 other top 10 talents in AAA and Chamberlain in AA. That would make us be able to send them a package of 2-4 top tier pitching prospects while sparing the need to send Hughes.

 

 

At the same time, if Minny wanted Hughes as part of a package for Johan the Yankees would have a real tough time saying no.

[jacksonianmarch]

At the same time' date=' if Minny wanted Hughes as part of a package for Johan the Yankees would have a real tough time saying no.[/quote']

 

depends on what they see out of Hughes. If Hughes comes up and pulls a Jered Weaver, he becomes flat out untouchable. If he comes up and is average or worse, then the twins may not even want him. That is why I think his debut in the majors is the end point of his trade rumors. The hand will be shown to everyone.

[TheKilo]

depends on what they see out of Hughes. If Hughes comes up and pulls a Jered Weaver' date=' he becomes flat out untouchable. If he comes up and is average or worse, then the twins may not even want him. That is why I think his debut in the majors is the end point of his trade rumors. The hand will be shown to everyone.[/quote']

 

We basically agree...if the Twins want him though, can the Yankees say no?

[jacksonianmarch]

We basically agree...if the Twins want him though' date=' can the Yankees say no?[/quote']

 

today, not at all. If he pulls a Jered Weaver in 08, then yeah, they would and should pull him off the table for good.

 

Also, I think the yankees could still offer the best package without having to give up Hughes (assuming RJ is dealt for Owings and Nippert). Nobody else has so much MLB ready pitching talent in the AAA system with the added caveat of being able to sign Johan.

[TheKilo]

today, not at all. If he pulls a Jered Weaver in 08, then yeah, they would and should pull him off the table for good.

 

Also, I think the yankees could still offer the best package without having to give up Hughes (assuming RJ is dealt for Owings and Nippert). Nobody else has so much MLB ready pitching talent in the AAA system with the added caveat of being able to sign Johan.

 

Minor league talent, yes, but I think that it's possible you see teams make a push with MLB talent to go after him.

 

Again, who, and for what, we'll have to wait and see.

 

edit - Let me go on record as to saying he's in Minny for his career, BTW.

[jacksonianmarch]

Minor league talent, yes, but I think that it's possible you see teams make a push with MLB talent to go after him.

 

Again, who, and for what, we'll have to wait and see.

 

edit - Let me go on record as to saying he's in Minny for his career, BTW.

 

I will go on record as saying the opposite. Actually, let me be bold here. I am 75% sure he is in another uniform by Jan 1, 2008.

[TheKilo]

I will go on record as saying the opposite. Actually' date=' let me be bold here. I am 75% sure he is in another uniform by Jan 1, 2008.[/quote']

 

I think he's gonna be the #1 priority there, over Mauer and Morneau.

 

Dude's a HoF pitcher, and he's a lefty.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think he's gonna be the #1 priority there, over Mauer and Morneau.

 

Dude's a HoF pitcher, and he's a lefty.

 

but he is gonna cost 20 mil a season on a team that hardly breaks 40mil in total payroll. He can thank Zito for completely pricing himself out of 2/3's of the teams in the MLB's league.

[TheKilo]

but he is gonna cost 20 mil a season on a team that hardly breaks 40mil in total payroll. He can thank Zito for completely pricing himself out of 2/3's of the teams in the MLB's league.

 

They picked up Torii Hunter's 12 million dollar option this offseason.

 

If they're willing to spend $12 mil on Hunter, they'll sign Santana.

 

edit - the Twins' payroll was close to $65 million last year.

[jacksonianmarch]

They picked up Torii Hunter's 12 million dollar option this offseason.

 

If they're willing to spend $12 mil on Hunter, they'll sign Santana.

 

edit - the Twins' payroll was close to $65 million last year.

 

I have a feeling picking up Hunter's option is a good way to get something for him at the deadline.

[TheKilo]

I have a feeling picking up Hunter's option is a good way to get something for him at the deadline.

 

And if not, he's costing them $12 million.

 

Again, I find it really hard to believe the Twins will part with the best SP in baseball unless it's a great deal for them.

[jacksonianmarch]

And if not, he's costing them $12 million.

 

Again, I find it really hard to believe the Twins will part with the best SP in baseball unless it's a great deal for them.

 

But the question remains. They wont be the highest bidder when Johan hits the market. Hence, they have to protect themselves against his impending departure. They get a 1st rounder and a sandwich if he leaves via FA. They can fleece a team for 3 or 4 top 100 prospects if they deal him. I think they deal him.

[BSN07]

MINN is going to have a new stadium soon, With M and M, Santanna, Liriano, and a couple other young pitchers they have, they are looking to be a strong team in the near future and for awhile after that. Expect Minny to expand there payroll to allow them to keep all these guys under contract. They will need all those guys to sell tickets to the new park.

 

The only way Santanna gets dealt, is if he comes out and says flat out that he either doesn't want to resign or that his contract demands will be astronomical( 20M+ a yr). The only other possibility is that if Liriano comes back 100% Minny might decide to trade Santanna and rely on Liriano as the ace. I don't see this because liriano isn't going to be back for 07 and they won't know how effective he will be until 08.

 

This is just a guess for what I think Minny's players will get for contracts,

 

Hunter- gone

Mauer- 5yrs 50M

Morneau- 5yrs 55M

Santanna- 6yrs 100M+( 100M is hometown discount, if he hits the open market, Boras will commit suicide because hes not his client, and Santanna gets a 7yr 150M+ deal from Texas,BOS,NYY,NYM,LAA,LA( or whoever can afford it). But I think he stays in Minny, he doesn't seem the type of player to chase money.

[jacksonianmarch]

guys. Lets be honest here. Any good pitcher who just watched Barry Zito, essentially a solid #3 and a potential #2 sign for 7yrs at 18 mil just saw dollar signs flash before their eyes. He will be the barometer for future ace deals.

 

Carlos Zambrano? Younger, better stuff, just as durable, and improving rather than regressing? He'll beat Zito's deal.

 

Johan Santana? Will turn 30 in ST of 2009. He'll be a FA after the 2008 season. He is by all accounts the best pitcher in all of baseball. He has the best stuff in all of baseball. He has the best location, etc. And, he is left handed. Expect him to BLOW both of those two above out of the water. How do you expect Minnesota to compete with the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets and the like for him? And lets not fool ourselves here. He may be a nice guy, but every agent from here to japan is telling their pitchers to wait it out till FA cause someone will make a ridiculous offer. He is done in Minnesota in 2 yrs and if they want to get something for him, he should be dealt by 2008.

[Mr Crunchy]

the people in houston,number than s***,would rather see clemens than ny or boston fans

its a novelty in houston

they think hes nolan ryan returned

 

anyone north of arlington texas who thinks they got a shot at mr april best bring their checkbook with a deuce and 0000000's in the register

 

f*** this guy

[jacksonianmarch]

Clemens is the ultimate mercenary. But sometimes, mercs are necessary. If we deal RJ, then we are relying on Pavano as our #5. With our farm system and the options available pitching wise, I dont mind that. We need to develop young pitching, we have it MLB ready, why not now? But if Cashman is of the idea that these kids need one more yr (which I would certainly endorse) and he is of the idea that Pavano is a walking 15 day DL and cannot be trusted (which again I'd endorse) then he has to fill the 5 hole with a commodity that can handle the Bronx and pitch well. Clemens will give him that. And if that means slogging through april and may with Pavano et al in the 5 slot only to have Mr May make it through the season and not be lame in October, then so be it. Is he a merc, absolutely. Will he always be a merc, absolutely. Does anyone actually think he is going to give a rats ass about sentiment in his hometown, in boston or in NY. Well, they'd ne naive.

[Mr Crunchy]

who ever comes up with the biggest coin will get him

[jacksonianmarch]

who ever comes up with the biggest coin will get him

 

agreed old timer.

[TheKilo]

guys. Lets be honest here. Any good pitcher who just watched Barry Zito, essentially a solid #3 and a potential #2 sign for 7yrs at 18 mil just saw dollar signs flash before their eyes. He will be the barometer for future ace deals.

 

Carlos Zambrano? Younger, better stuff, just as durable, and improving rather than regressing? He'll beat Zito's deal.

 

Johan Santana? Will turn 30 in ST of 2009. He'll be a FA after the 2008 season. He is by all accounts the best pitcher in all of baseball. He has the best stuff in all of baseball. He has the best location, etc. And, he is left handed. Expect him to BLOW both of those two above out of the water. How do you expect Minnesota to compete with the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets and the like for him? And lets not fool ourselves here. He may be a nice guy, but every agent from here to japan is telling their pitchers to wait it out till FA cause someone will make a ridiculous offer. He is done in Minnesota in 2 yrs and if they want to get something for him, he should be dealt by 2008.

 

I believe it is inaccurate to use this year's market to guage what it will be like a few years down the road.

 

Remember the ridiculous year when Manny signed his deal with us? The market corrected itself in a few years.

[jacksonianmarch]

the market corrected itself cause the FA class sucked cajones. The only true blue, A#1 player to hit the market in that time and not get a monster deal was Vlad, and that was only because he had a back issue in his walk yr.

[ARod2212]

I didn't read the thread, but this Johnson move I think indicates that Clemens is going to be back in New York.

[jacksonianmarch]

I didn't read the thread' date=' but this Johnson move I think indicates that Clemens is going to be back in New York.[/quote']

 

I think it is a sure sign that the yankees are ready to outbid the s*** out of everyone.

[Mr Crunchy]

as they should

slap raja with as many 000000s as possible and count on his 45 year old ass to beat kc and tampa but get his ass handed to him by boston chicago and toronto

 

honestly speaking for a moment while my monday hangover carries into tuesday nite...

he will be a great inning eater for a team that lacks pitching depth

if the yanks think pavano and iguana are solid keepers then i think theyre wasting their money

nobody can tell me that the sox would be better off facing rj than clemens

i

as well as you guys

watched both these men against boston

clemens gets his ass handed to him in every game that ever mattered

rj is beatable as well as is mussina these days

however

they always pitched good enuff to win the tight ones against us

as opposed to clem,who always pitched good enuff to lose the big ones,be it against dave stewart,ronny darling(another local kid) or el presidente dennis martinez or the other martinez

 

if the sox think their 5+ are ready to roll?

they too wouldnt invest in this ********** either

 

of course come june and things turn hot and the pitching wilts or burns or both

a guy like raja would be a good fit for any team in the running

 

im just wondering why they would invest that kind of coin on raja as opposed to the likes of jason schmidt who they couldve rented for the stretch run

 

i think its a marketing ploy by the sox

a competetive ploy by the yanks

who may feel that theyre outgunned at the starting rotation area

[a700hitter]

I didn't read the thread' date=' but this Johnson move I think indicates that Clemens is going to be back in New York.[/quote']What will they do until June when the Rocket wants to start his season.

[ARod2212]

What will they do until June when the Rocket wants to start his season.

I'm sure they'll figure something out. Whoever they send out can't be worse than Jaret Wright was.

[a700hitter]

I'm sure they'll figure something out. Whoever they send out can't be worse than Jaret Wright was.

Sure they could. Did you see the crap that we were rolling out in the 5th slot last year-- Pauley, Snyder and "the Ultimate Loser" Jason Johnson.