Who's on Second?

[ORS]

I saw a kid who hit the ball hard, but was bit snakebit with where the ball was headed. He stung the ball quite a few times that went right to a fielder. That .190 BA you love to point out was in only 89 ABs. That's less than a quarter of the season. You need more chances to let the bounces even out. Loretta was hitting .200 in mid-May, but he was hitting it hard. By the break he was up to .300.

 

I saw a kid who wasn't a statue manning the keystone. I loved Loretta's sure hands, but everything left or right got by him. There's more to fielding than not dropping the ball.

 

The thing I liked best was just his demeanor, though. I saw a 5' - 8", 175 lbs soaking wet kid that wasn't fazed by where he was.

 

I could be off in what I saw, but I think it was enough to give it a go with him.

[rician blast]

I saw what I described months ago as a player that, best case, might be a David Eckstein some day, but would more likely resemble Tony Graffanino.

 

However, if they are inclined to let Loretta walk away, I'd prefer giving this kid a shot versus playing Cora there...or worse yet, bringing in someone like Tony Graff.

 

The other side of this is the following...we're all aware of the scouting reports on the kid and he was very highly touted, but right now he is worth less than when he was a promising AAA player. As an organization looking beyond the issue of who starts at 2nd on opening day I expect the FO will be inclined to do what they can to raise his value. That's only going to happen if he (1) gets the opportunity to play in the bigs and does reasonably well or (2) goes down to AAA and absolutely rips the s*** outta the ball. I just don't see him going down, so my hunch is he's the starting 2B in April.

[Mr Crunchy]

i was in fenway when he hit his 1st homer

it was a 370 foot rocket that may have been going up when it hit the monster seats

i was so disgusted with the team after the break that i didnt see many positives out there

i wasnt optimistic

i was f***ing miserable between ortiz heart,mannys legs and paples shoulder

the farthest thing from my mind was what pedroia was doing

 

so based on the last month of the season

shall we name julian tavarez as our#1??

without a doubt,he was our best pitcher in september

[rician blast]

I hear ya Crunch but Theo has a big-time hard-on for the kid

AND

I think they want to boost his value

AND

I think there is a certain amount of egg on their face over Hanley that they might want to force the issue with Pedroia.

 

Of course if he flops it'll show the fanbase that the FO has no clue who their better prospects are.

 

Risky proposition, but I'm afraid he's the man this April. Christ, I even heard some apologists stating that his tough start could have been due to a wrist injury that hadn't fully healed. Funny..it didn't hurt him in AAA.

[a700hitter]

Christ' date=' I even heard some apologists stating that his tough start could have been due to a wrist injury that hadn't fully healed. Funny..it didn't hurt him in AAA.[/quote']It didn't stop him from swinging from the heels on every swing.

[seabeachfred]

Excuse me my friends, but the fact is Dustin Pedroia missed ALL of Spring Training and the first few days of the regular season because of that injury. He started absolutely cold and got off to an expected slow start. Yet he came on like a prairie fire and wound up hitting 305. He also hit 324 in AA in 2005. I can understand the worry you anti-Pedroia campers might have but I think this kid is going to be a very good player for us. He has nothing down below to prove. As for his slow start, remember he was jerked in and out of the lineup, hit a number of ropes right at people, and was up and down the lineup. You should also remember that he showed a particular ability to take it to the Yankees, and on their home turf. This guy is going to be fine. Relax and enjoy this young man. He will probably be around for a long time. I've loved this kid since the first day I saw him play in a ST game on TV in '05.

[example1]

They were backing up Nomar. Pedroia is not Nomar.

 

Pokey played plenty of 2B, so, he was backing up who... nobody? And by "Pedroia is not Nomar" you must mean the Nomar BEFORE Pokey Reese came along, because the Nomar of 04 sucked and he was injured before the season started. Look at the articles when the Sox signed Reese... it says they signed him to be their next 2B. Lo and behold, he ended up playing some SS too, but they got Reese to START at 2B, not to backup Nomar. Reese didn't even end up starting at 2B for much of the season once Bellhorn was found... but I digress.

 

How many of our recent second round picks have become starters in their rookie years? Don't you think that the Red Sox also valued the other second round picks?

 

Does it matter? They seem to be valuing HIM quite a bit and it seems to be something people here should just accept rather than bitching and moaning as if they have some better idea of what to do at 2B.

 

I love when another poster tells me that I have to accept FO moves. Do I have any other choice? Do you? Duh! Do you drink before you make these posts?..

 

Yes, a700. You figured it out. I drink before I post.

 

and none of them were given starting jobs on a contending team when they first came to the majors.

 

Very smart a700. Very smart. You're right, Mays etc., weren't given starting jobs. Of course, neither was Pedroia. This kid played for 2 months last season, without being told that he was the starter. So, interestingly, Pedroia wasn't "given" the starting job at all, he played backup for much of last season.

 

I have no problem with having a backup plan, you and I just disagree about it. We can go and find guys who are EXACTLY LIKE EVERY OTHER plan we've had in the past. Guiteriez, Reese, Damian jackson, Willie Harris, etc., are all the types of players that we can have in a heart beat...

 

so would that make you happy? Or, do you have to pay a guy like Loretta a ton of money to sit on the bench... or, is it possible that you actually aren't concerned about the BACKUP plan, but more about the PLAN itself? I think its the latter, because you've never been comfortable with the idea of Pedroia being a starter despite pretending to have accepted it and really just looking for a backup plan when backup plans are a dime a dozen.

[example1]

If you sign him for two years and Pedroia wins the job' date=' the FO could trade Loretta in a salary dump. We are talking about nickels and dimes here in the overall scheme of things.[/quote']

 

But then we'd be without a backup plan! Pedroia has the job. I don't think the Sox are going to back out of that. they will have a backup plan, but its not going to be a guy who demands (and deserves) to start for the last few years of his career...

 

but point taken, we are talking nickels and dimes. What we are also (not) talking about is team chemistry and dynamics and the Sox clearly think their team will come together better without a disgruntled veteran who is demanding to start.

[example1]

i was in fenway when he hit his 1st homer

it was a 370 foot rocket that may have been going up when it hit the monster seats

i was so disgusted with the team after the break that i didnt see many positives out there

i wasnt optimistic

i was f***ing miserable between ortiz heart,mannys legs and paples shoulder

the farthest thing from my mind was what pedroia was doing

 

so based on the last month of the season

shall we name julian tavarez as our#1??

without a doubt,he was our best pitcher in september

 

The only people saying the last month of the season counted are the anti-Pedroites. While you were too pissed off to notice, aparently a number of us noticed that this kid has some skills and appears to have the ability to play in the bigs.

 

Also, why do you have to type like its a sonnett? I'm getting used to it but man its annoying.

[a700hitter]

Pokey played plenty of 2B' date=' so, he was backing up who... nobody? And by "Pedroia is not Nomar" you must mean the Nomar BEFORE Pokey Reese came along, because the Nomar of 04 sucked and he was injured before the season started. Look at the articles when the Sox signed Reese... it says they signed him to be their next 2B. Lo and behold, he ended up playing some SS too, but they got Reese to START at 2B, not to backup Nomar. Reese didn't even end up starting at 2B for much of the season once Bellhorn was found... but I digress.[/quote']Yes, you do digress. Of course you fail to mention that Pokey Reese had two gold gloves under his belt by the time he got to Boston and that he was a very proficient base-stealer. Also, Bellhorn had hit 27 Homers only one year prior. It seems to me that the Red Sox had two major league starting options going into 2004.

Does it matter? They seem to be valuing HIM quite a bit and it seems to be something people here should just accept rather than bitching and moaning as if they have some better idea of what to do at 2B.

Again' date=' with the admonishment to accept a FO decision. What the hell does that mean? I have no input in their decisions and neither do you, so both of us have no choice but to accept their decisions. Does this mean we have to agree with their decision? If so, why? I have no control over Tito's game moves. Do I have to accept those too? Your admonishment is a little ridiculous. What next. Will you tell me that I should root for the Yankees unless I drink the FO Kool Aid?

Yes, a700. You figured it out. I drink before I post.[

Another possibility could be that you are off your meds.

I have no problem with having a backup plan, you and I just disagree about it. We can go and find guys who are EXACTLY LIKE EVERY OTHER plan we've had in the past. Guiteriez, Reese, Damian jackson, Willie Harris, etc., are all the types of players that we can have in a heart beat...

 

so would that make you happy? Or, do you have to pay a guy like Loretta a ton of money to sit on the bench... or, is it possible that you actually aren't concerned about the BACKUP plan, but more about the PLAN itself? I think its the latter, because you've never been comfortable with the idea of Pedroia being a starter despite pretending to have accepted it and really just looking for a backup plan when backup plans are a dime a dozen.

I am not looking for a backup, but an alternative with experience and success as a major league starting second baseman, not a fill in like Gutierrez or Damian Jackson. BTW Loretta doesn't make a ton of money. He makes about the same money as Julian Tavarez. Why are you opposed to Pedroia winning the job? If he's as good as you think, he should have no problem vanquishing Loretta. What's your reluctance?

[seabeachfred]

Loretta would never accept a backup role. He thinks he has three or four good seasons left, and, while we are about it, I think some of you are thinking of a guy like Belliard to play second for us. Forget that!!!! The Guardians and Cards both discarded him and that's the kind of players we've been signing t he past few years with lousy results. Damian Jackson, Willie Harris, Guitierrez, Bellhorn, they all turned out to be crappy. Let's start using our good young players instead of seeing them doing well for other teams while we keep getting stuck with other teams' rejects. Enough of that. Pedroia is the man at 2B next year and the years after that.

[a700hitter]

Loretta would never accept a backup role. He thinks he has three or four good seasons left' date=' and, while we are about it, I think some of you are thinking of a guy like Belliard to play second for us. Forget that!!!! The Guardians and Cards both discarded him and that's the kind of players we've been signing t he past few years with lousy results. Damian Jackson, Willie Harris, Guitierrez, Bellhorn, they all turned out to be crappy. Let's start using our good young players instead of seeing them doing well for other teams while we keep getting stuck with other teams' rejects. Enough of that. Pedroia is the man at 2B next year and the years after that.[/quote']Okay, give him the job. Don't make him earn it, and if he bombs we can give up some prospects to get Belliard or someone of his ilk.

[ORS]

Okay' date=' give him the job. Don't make him earn it, and if he bombs we can give up some prospects to get Belliard or someone of his ilk.[/quote']

Belliard was better than Loretta last year, and he was acquired for Hector Luna. Sounds good to me.

[example1]

Yes, you do digress. Of course you fail to mention that Pokey Reese had two gold gloves under his belt by the time he got to Boston and that he was a very proficient base-stealer. Also, Bellhorn had hit 27 Homers only one year prior. It seems to me that the Red Sox had two major league starting options going into 2004.

 

So now its okay to point to someone's stats/accomplishments to justify giving them a spot, but referring to Pedroia as the Sox minor league offensive player of the year, or the NCAA defensive player of the year doesn't count for something? I mean, Pedroia's stats/accomplishments in lower levels are not the same as a gold glove, but in combination, with a real eye toward who Pokey Reese was when the sox got him I think it easily balances things out.

 

 

 

Again, with the admonishment to accept a FO decision. What the hell does that mean? I have no input in their decisions and neither do you, so both of us have no choice but to accept their decisions. Does this mean we have to agree with their decision? If so, why? I have no control over Tito's game moves. Do I have to accept those too?

 

I just think that if you're going to disagree with a FO that has some of the best sabermetric minds (people like Bill James) consulting them about how to evaluate players and value, you better first try and construct what the FO's argument is about why Pedroia should start, and then construct a better argument that addresses the FO's argument. You gotta bring some ammo. Saying that a guy hasn't played, or he's a rookie and shouldn't be given the spot because of that seems pretty dogmatic if you ask me. Is that a rule that applies to baseball across the board? Does it apply just to 2B, or just to 2B with + defensive skills and + on-base skills?

 

You should just go root for the yankees if you don't like what this FO does!!

 

Your admonishment is a little ridiculous. What next. Will you tell me that I should root for the Yankees unless I drink the FO Kool Aid?

 

:harhar:

 

I love grape flavored kool aid myself.

 

Another possibility could be that you are off your meds.

 

You're just the pillar of rationality and soberity huh a700? Mr. Balanced.

 

I am not looking for a backup, but an alternative with experience and success as a major league starting second baseman, not a fill in like Gutierrez or Damian Jackson. BTW Loretta doesn't make a ton of money. He makes about the same money as Julian Tavarez. Why are you opposed to Pedroia winning the job? If he's as good as you think, he should have no problem vanquishing Loretta. What's your reluctance?

 

My only real reluctance is for the FO to spend a considerable amount of time seeking a second baseman who meets your standards, although its not really an issue since I don't think they're going to. I mention the type of guys they've traditionally gone for for the position you're talking about and you seem to agree that at best the Sox can hope for one of the numerous 'average' 2B who are always out there. So why freak out about a guy like Pedroia?

 

The annoyance I have with this situation in particular is that otherwise level-headed people are using this as a platform to criticize the FO's ability to construct a team when, by most estimations this is on only going to happen soon one way or the other (be it April or Sept), but Pedroia is the plan for 2B for the forseeable future.

[example1]

Pokey Reese, 2003, PIT, Age 30

 

37G, 107 AB, 1 HR, 12 RBI, .215 AVG, .271 OBP, .303 SLG,

 

Dustin Pedroia, 2006, BOS, Age 23

 

31G, 89 AB, 2 HR, 7 RBI, .191 AVG, .258., .303 SLG

 

Pedroia and Reese both sucked in the seasions prior to being hired for a starting job for the Red Sox. Both of them have a good reputation for being able to field and for being tremendous team players and good guys in the clubhouse. Pedroia has the added reputation (that Reese still hasn't acquired and never had even in the minors) of getting on base, which is associated with scoring runs and winning. We're not going to trade him, and we are going to play him over the next 5 years, he's not 16 years old, he's a 23 year old man. Plenty of 23 year old men have done well in the majors. Being a "rookie" is a relative term.

[a700hitter]

So now its okay to point to someone's stats/accomplishments to justify giving them a spot' date=' but referring to Pedroia as the Sox minor league offensive player of the year, or the NCAA defensive player of the year doesn't count for something? I mean, Pedroia's stats/accomplishments in lower levels are not the same as a gold glove, but in combination, with a real eye toward who Pokey Reese was when the sox got him I think it easily balances things out. [/quote']I don't think so. Pokey's accomplishments were at the major league level. He also had two plus skills-- his speed and arm.

I just think that if you're going to disagree with a FO that has some of the best sabermetric minds (people like Bill James) consulting them about how to evaluate players and value, you better first try and construct what the FO's argument is about why Pedroia should start, and then construct a better argument that addresses the FO's argument.

Those great minds did quite a job turning the second highest payroll in the game into a third place team that was out of the race by the first week of August.

You gotta bring some ammo. Saying that a guy hasn't played' date=' or he's a rookie and shouldn't be given the spot because of that seems pretty dogmatic if you ask me. Is that a rule that applies to baseball across the board? [/quote'] Yeah, it's been a fairly common and successful practice throughout the history of the game that rookies, especially average-skilled rookies, need to win a job.

You're just the pillar of rationality and soberity huh a700? Mr. Balanced.

Oh' date=' go take your meds.

My only real reluctance is for the FO to spend a considerable amount of time seeking a second baseman who meets your standards, although its not really an issue since I don't think they're going to.

Considerable time? Offer Loretta 2 years $6 million and it's done. That didn't take much time. If Pedroia wins the job, dump as much of Loretta's salary as you can. If Pedroia bombs, Loretta steps in.

I mention the type of guys they've traditionally gone for for the position you're talking about and you seem to agree that at best the Sox can hope for one of the numerous 'average' 2B who are always out there. So why freak out about a guy like Pedroia?

Freak out? I am just disagreeing with their approach. After last year's debacle' date=' they are not above criticism.

The annoyance I have with this situation in particular is that otherwise level-headed people are using this as a platform to criticize the FO's ability to construct a team when, by most estimations this is on only going to happen soon one way or the other (be it April or Sept), but Pedroia is the plan for 2B for the forseeable future.

So, because it is going to happen, we should not criticize it? That's what boards like this are about, providing a forum for the fans opinions and thoughts, so piss off. J.D. Drew is going to happen also, but I don't agree with that move either. I'd much prefer it if they had re-signed Damon instead.

[a700hitter]

Pokey Reese, 2003, PIT, Age 30

 

37G, 107 AB, 1 HR, 12 RBI, .215 AVG, .271 OBP, .303 SLG,

 

Dustin Pedroia, 2006, BOS, Age 23

 

31G, 89 AB, 2 HR, 7 RBI, .191 AVG, .258., .303 SLG

 

Pedroia and Reese both sucked in the seasions prior to being hired for a starting job for the Red Sox. Both of them have a good reputation for being able to field and for being tremendous team players and good guys in the clubhouse. Pedroia has the added reputation (that Reese still hasn't acquired and never had even in the minors) of getting on base, which is associated with scoring runs and winning. We're not going to trade him, and we are going to play him over the next 5 years, he's not 16 years old, he's a 23 year old man. Plenty of 23 year old men have done well in the majors. Being a "rookie" is a relative term.

Reese had injury problems in 2003, but he was a proven Major leaguer prior to that. Pedroia is not a proven major leaguer. There is a difference between the majors and the bush leagues despite your protestations, and that's why the major leaguers make the big bucks.

[example1]

Reese had injury problems in 2003' date=' but he was a proven Major leaguer prior to that. Pedroia is not a proven major leaguer. There is a difference between the majors and the bush leagues despite your protestations, and that's why the major leaguers make the big bucks.[/quote']

 

Yes, his 1999 .747 OPS (career high) was pretty impressive. Especially when compared with his other previous full-season totals: .571, .705, .627, .682. Proven major leaguer? I guess...

 

My point is not to bash Pokey Reese. It's to show that if you're willing to defend Pokey Reese as a legitimate 2B a few years ago then I don't see why its such a stretch to look at Pedroia as your starting 2B next year. Reese is a career .248 hitter with a career .659 OPS not some superstar. He played great defense but apparently Pedroia is a plus defender too, and I would hope you will acknowledge that he's likely a better hitter than Reese was.

 

I guess when it comes down to it I'm happy we have Pedroia, I'm psyched that he'll be playing for the sox in the future. I think this discussion is similar to the ones we have had about Kevin Youkilis and his value to the team. I think that a hard-working, scrappy on-base machine is inherently useful on a team, particularly if they play solid defense and don't cost that much. I don't particularly care what position they play, as long as we have hitters like Ramirez and Ortiz who are both better than the best hitters in almost every other team's lineup.

 

EDIT: Also, Pokey Reese played in 128 G in his rookie season. You think Pedroia can beat a .284 OBP in his first 128 games next season? I do.

[a700hitter]

Yes, his 1999 .747 OPS (career high) was pretty impressive. Especially when compared with his other previous full-season totals: .571, .705, .627, .682. Proven major leaguer? I guess...

 

My point is not to bash Pokey Reese. It's to show that if you're willing to defend Pokey Reese as a legitimate 2B a few years ago then I don't see why its such a stretch to look at Pedroia as your starting 2B next year. Reese is a career .248 hitter with a career .659 OPS not some superstar. He played great defense but apparently Pedroia is a plus defender too, and I would hope you will acknowledge that he's likely a better hitter than Reese was.

Although Reese was not an offensive force, he was a proven major leaguer. Pedroia is not.

I guess when it comes down to it I'm happy we have Pedroia' date=' I'm psyched that he'll be playing for the sox in the future.[/quote']I am rooting for the guy big time, but I am not willing to bet the success of a $150 million payroll on him.

I think this discussion is similar to the ones we have had about Kevin Youkilis and his value to the team. I think that a hard-working' date=' scrappy on-base machine is inherently useful on a team, particularly if they play solid defense and don't cost that much. I don't particularly care what position they play, as long as we have hitters like Ramirez and Ortiz who are both better than the best hitters in almost every other team's lineup.[/quote']I like Youk, but I think he has just qabout reached his ceiling, and his power and speed are both well-below average. Below average speed and below average power tends to negate his OBP.

[example1]

Although Reese was not an offensive force' date=' he was a proven major leaguer. Pedroia is not. [/quote']

 

Just becomes some other team chose to put up with Reese's crapiness does not necessarily make him a more legitimate player than a minor leaguer. Great, Reese managed to play in lots of games and be unproductive at the plate for a few years before the sox signed him. I'm confident that, given his success in the minors, Pedroia would be a 'proven' player at this point if he played for the Rockies or Royals or any other s***** team. There are plenty of crappy MLB players who are just waiting around to lose their spot to a better, younger player. Being 'proven' in a case like Reese's just means that he's been in a lot of games and, in his case, walked back to the dugout with a bat in your hand after making an out considerably more than some minor leaguer.

 

I am rooting for the guy big time, but I am not willing to bet the success of a $150 million payroll on him. I like Youk, but I think he has just qabout reached his ceiling, and his power and speed are both well-below average. Below average speed and below average power tends to negate his OBP.

 

Does any team bet the success of a payroll on a single player? Here are a list of players who, regardless of their production this season, are going to be more important for the Red Sox success for better or worse:

 

Manny Ramirez

David Ortiz

Curt Schilling

Josh Beckett

Jonathan Papelbon

JD Drew

Coco Crisp

Jason Varitek

Daisuke Matsuzaka

Julio Lugo

Mike Lowell

 

somewhere after all of these guys is the importance of Pedroia's performance actually supporting the sox 150m payroll. Let's not pretend that the season hangs in the balance on a guy who likely made 300,000K last year. He'll be a nice piece if they win but it won't be his doing either way.

[a700hitter]

Just becomes some other team chose to put up with Reese's crapiness does not necessarily make him a more legitimate player than a minor leaguer. Great' date=' Reese managed to play in lots of games and be unproductive at the plate for a few years before the sox signed him. I'm confident that, given his success in the minors, Pedroia would be a 'proven' player at this point if he played for the Rockies or Royals or any other s***** team. There are plenty of crappy MLB players who are just waiting around to lose their spot to a better, younger player. Being 'proven' in a case like Reese's just means that he's been in a lot of games and, in his case, walked back to the dugout with a bat in your hand after making an out considerably more than some minor leaguer. [/quote']Pedroia could only dream of being the defensive player that Pokey was. Pokey wasn't a plus fielder in the minors. He was a breath-taking major league defender at two positions. Pokey had speed that Pedroia doesn't have, and he hit just enough to stay around for a few years. His lifetime BA was .248.

Does any team bet the success of a payroll on a single player?

He will be one of nine starters, and he plays a very important position. He needs to hit at least .250 to earn his keep and not adversely affect others in the lineup. .250 is not a very high bar, but there is no guaranty that he will perform at that level. His September audition gives us little or nothing to go on.

[example1]

Pedroia could only dream of being the defensive player that Pokey was. Pokey wasn't a plus fielder in the minors. He was a breath-taking major league defender at two positions. Pokey had speed that Pedroia doesn't have' date=' and he hit just enough to stay around for a few years. His lifetime BA was .248.He will be one of nine starters, and he plays a very important position. He needs to hit at least .250 to earn his keep and not adversely affect others in the lineup. .250 is not a very high bar, but there is no guaranty that he will perform at that level. His September audition gives us little or nothing to go on.[/quote']

 

If .250 is your bar then we can end this discussion right here, cause he'll get that.

 

I think a better bar would be .340 OBP or so since that's a better reflection of the type of at-bats he's getting.

[a700hitter]

If .250 is your bar then we can end this discussion right here, cause he'll get that.

 

I think a better bar would be .340 OBP or so since that's a better reflection of the type of at-bats he's getting.

That would be great if he could do that. I am not expecting a lot from him, nor do I think the team needs a lot from him. The possibility remains that he could bomb.

[seabeachfred]

700, let me give you some soothing knowledge. Pedroia is going to do just fine for the Red Sox. You will be very pleasantly surprised and will become a big fan of his by the end of next year. Bank on it my friend.

[example1]

That would be great if he could do that. I am not expecting a lot from him' date=' nor do I think the team needs a lot from him. The possibility remains that he could bomb.[/quote']

 

A very fair assessment a700. Overall we agree.

 

I just don't think its worth pointing at 2B as a weakness on this team when most people can't name the starting second baseman on their hometown team. It is as big a grey area as it is on almost any other team, with injuries and the mediocre replacement options that are always available.

[ksushi]

If Pedroia bats .250 with good gaps power and a nice glove in his first full season, I'm happy. He doesn't need to be the man. 2nd isn't the spot I'm worried about because I'm confident that with his tools pedroia will do something. I'm really worried about SS. Lugo is Edgar Renteria all over again. Same exact games per error, same-ish career offensive numbers. Sure, he flourished in pressure free Tampa Bay, but when he got thrown into a pennant race after the all-star break he turned what could have been a career year into a pretty forgettable one. He was terrible in LA. I'm very worried he will be the same in Boston.

 

I miss O-cab and Gonzo so much. Pedroia has the defense skills I like in a middle infielder, whatever he does with the bat I consider to be a bonus. Up the middle, you can sacrifice offense in favor of D. It helps out your pitchers, and saves you some games.

[example1]

If Pedroia bats .250 with good gaps power and a nice glove in his first full season, I'm happy. He doesn't need to be the man. 2nd isn't the spot I'm worried about because I'm confident that with his tools pedroia will do something. I'm really worried about SS. Lugo is Edgar Renteria all over again. Same exact games per error, same-ish career offensive numbers. Sure, he flourished in pressure free Tampa Bay, but when he got thrown into a pennant race after the all-star break he turned what could have been a career year into a pretty forgettable one. He was terrible in LA. I'm very worried he will be the same in Boston.

 

I miss O-cab and Gonzo so much. Pedroia has the defense skills I like in a middle infielder, whatever he does with the bat I consider to be a bonus. Up the middle, you can sacrifice offense in favor of D. It helps out your pitchers, and saves you some games.

 

The Sox haven't even played a game without Gonzo yet...

 

I think we're all hoping that Lugo and Crisp will both have the types of years we KNOW they can have but haven't entirely seen yet. Lugo will become a Sox fan favorite as long as he hustles and makes some solid plays at SS. If he steals a base or 15 that will help too.

 

I think that shooting for .250 for Pedroia is very conservative and the fact that people (a700) is worried about him even getting that means that I have underestimated his true fear of how bad Pedroia could be. I'm sorry a700, I didn't realize that. I thought you at least thought he could be Alex Gonzalez offensively. If you see someone worse than that then I understand your concern.

 

I see someone who is considerably better than that. Someone who has the tools and ability to take some pitches, wear the pitcher out and catch up to fastballs.

 

This guy only struck out 7 times last year in about 90 ABs. That seems pretty good to me. If he had 500+ ABs that would be like 40Ks. Pretty good for a 23 year old and I think the next step for him will be to turn those into more hits and walks, which he has shown he's capable of.

[jacksonianmarch]

The health of the overall lineup will determine how much is needed out of Pedroia. If Drew stays healthy and has a good yr, if Lugo shows he is more of the player he was in TB and not for the other parts of his career, if Tek rebounds at all, if Coco shows he is the player he was in cleveland, if Youkilis builds off his previous season, and if Lowell can play like he did in the first half rather than the last half, then Pedroia could sit in the 9 hole and do whatever he wants, cause he wont matter. But when you consider that the team has 2 slam dunks in the lineup and is surrounded by 6 question marks and a rookie, then the rookie may be leaned upon. If Drew does his biannual DL sabbaticle, if Coco is still the .700OPS slap hitter, if Tek declines further, if Lowell reverts to 05 form, if Lugo reverts to the .700OPS player he was prior to 04, if Youkilis gives exactly what he did last yr and god forbid if anything happens to Manny or Papi, and then the kid goes belly up? Then the sox are in deep deep trouble. Having a vet like Loretta who at the very least reached base, made contact, and was a potential 2 hitter likely hitting in the 9 hole, could really make a difference not only on the sox short term, but could give a mentor to the kid long term. As I showed in my previous posts, the yankees were the prime example of how to break kids into a team of superstars and keep rolling. You get em hot in the minors, bring them up teamed with a veteran and monitor them closely. None were ever given the job outright, all of them had to win it in some form or another.

[ORS]

The health of the overall lineup will determine how much is needed out of Pedroia. If Drew stays healthy and has a good yr' date=' if Lugo shows he is more of the player he was in TB and not for the other parts of his career, if Tek rebounds at all, if Coco shows he is the player he was in cleveland, if Youkilis builds off his previous season, and if Lowell can play like he did in the first half rather than the last half, then Pedroia could sit in the 9 hole and do whatever he wants, cause he wont matter. But when you consider that the team has 2 slam dunks in the lineup and is surrounded by 6 question marks and a rookie, then the rookie may be leaned upon. If Drew does his biannual DL sabbaticle, if Coco is still the .700OPS slap hitter, if Tek declines further, if Lowell reverts to 05 form, if Lugo reverts to the .700OPS player he was prior to 04, if Youkilis gives exactly what he did last yr and god forbid if anything happens to Manny or Papi, and then the kid goes belly up? Then the sox are in deep deep trouble. Having a vet like Loretta who at the very least reached base, made contact, and was a potential 2 hitter likely hitting in the 9 hole, could really make a difference not only on the sox short term, but could give a mentor to the kid long term. As I showed in my previous posts, the yankees were the prime example of how to break kids into a team of superstars and keep rolling. You get em hot in the minors, bring them up teamed with a veteran and monitor them closely. None were ever given the job outright, all of them had to win it in some form or another.[/quote']

What good is another .700 OPS hitter going to do if half the lineup is doing that? Especially one that is a statue in the field.

 

And, as for the Yankees doing it the right way, I guess the Sox should sign the super-suck that is Tony Womack in order for Pedroia to "earn" the job.

[jacksonianmarch]

What good is another .700 OPS hitter going to do if half the lineup is doing that? Especially one that is a statue in the field.

 

And, as for the Yankees doing it the right way, I guess the Sox should sign the super-suck that is Tony Womack in order for Pedroia to "earn" the job.

 

Womack was a big reason why Cano was brought up. But having the veteran there was a good fall back option, dont you think? If Cano went belly up, Womack would have been back at 2b and at the very least he'd be a .270 hitter with speed. Instead, they got a kid who a yr later challenged for the batting crown.

 

I think .700 is correct on this one. Pedroia is not a "can't miss" talent. It sounds like he is a lot like an Eckstein type of player, a guy who could be a great dirt dog type player, but equally a guy who can be overwhelmed at this level. He does not project to have soriano power or speed out of 2b. He does not project to have a vizquellian glove or have Loretta (in his prime) ability to hit the ball to all fields. He is a nice player who has no huge tool but at the same time is only a minus in power. He is by far not a can't miss prospect, hence he should be monitored closely and have a fallback option better than Cora. I think he'll do well, but does anyone on here want to bank on that?