Sox will let go of Papa Jack this offseason??

[riverside sluggers]

 

http://www.boston.com/partners/worldnow/nesn.html?catID=80767&clipid=979962&autoStart=true&mute=false&continuous=true

 

A lot of changes could be done in the coaching system, not just our Papa Jack. Also for listeners of WEEI Sox games, Jerry Trupiano & Joe Castiglione's contract is all set to not be renewed

http://thetrack.bostonherald.com/moreTrack/view.bg?articleid=159425

[jsinger121]

Castiglione is likely to return though

[BudLight]

typical FO trying to cover their asses after a miserable season. I'm sure Jackson was the reason for the poor performance of the Sox. It had nothing to do with injuries, the FO signing Crisp, and a light hitting SS and although Lowell rebounded somewhat, his numbers last year should have been an indication that something may be amiss in his offensive production. Papa Jack turned Big Papi into one of the most feared hitters in baseball and now the FO will turn Papa Jack into the scapegoat for their (FOs) shortcomings. Sad state of affairs.

[ORS]

typical FO trying to cover their asses after a miserable season. I'm sure Jackson was the reason for the poor performance of the Sox. It had nothing to do with injuries' date=' the FO signing Crisp, and a light hitting SS and although Lowell rebounded somewhat, his numbers last year should have been an indication that something may be amiss in his offensive production. Papa Jack turned Big Papi into one of the most feared hitters in baseball and now the FO will turn Papa Jack into the scapegoat for their (FOs) shortcomings. Sad state of affairs.[/quote']

The report is based on a ProJo article that said the source of the comments was, and the report correctly attributes the quotes to, veteran players who are dissatisfied with Jackson as the hitting coach. Now, call me crazy, but the veteran players aren't part of the FO. Are you suggesting the FO instructed the players to say this? Cue the X-Files conspiracy music.

 

EDIT: ProJo Link

[BudLight]

The report is based on a ProJo article that said the source of the comments was' date=' and the report correctly attributes the quotes to, veteran players who are dissatisfied with Jackson as the hitting coach. Now, call me crazy, but the veteran players aren't part of the FO. Are you suggesting the FO instructed the players to say this? Cue the [i']X-Files[/i] conspiracy music.

 

EDIT: ProJo Link

 

Not at all - my point is, regardless of who the comments are attributed to, the FO is still the one that makes the decision regarding his fate as the hitting coach. If the FO does not re-sign him I believe they are making a serious mistake. I also find it interesting that the "veterans" made these comments. What veterans? Red Sox veterans or MLB veterans? If were talking about Red Sox veterans it would be a very short list since their success of 2004. Besides, look again at the Sox injuries and offensive downturns of Varitek, Nixon, Crisp and Gonzalez. This is all attributable to Jackson?

[ORS]

Not at all - my point is' date=' regardless of who the comments are attributed to, the FO is still the one that makes the decision regarding his fate as the hitting coach. If the FO does not re-sign him I believe they are making a serious mistake. I also find it interesting that the "veterans" made these comments. What veterans? Red Sox veterans or MLB veterans? If were talking about Red Sox veterans it would be a very short list since their success of 2004. Besides, look again at the Sox injuries and offensive downturns of Varitek, Nixon, Crisp and Gonzalez. This is all attributable to Jackson?[/quote']

The correctness of the decision isn't what I take issue with. Personally, I think the decision should be based not on who played this year but on who is playing next year -- and subsequent years after. I take issue with the characterization of this as an FO character assassination plot in order to create a scapegoat. The FO didn't make the comments, the players did. It is up to the FO to use that information and decide whether they keep/can Jackson, and either way the risk of a mistake is there, but it just didn't go down like you claimed it did in your original post.

[BudLight]

Okay, I see your point. But, Francona doesn't make the decision on who stays, who goes, the players don't make the decision on who stays and who goes, the FO does (maybe with input from the above). In the end though, IMHO, Jackson has done a great job the last 4 years with this team offensively. Ortiz, Manny, Youk, etc. If they decide not to re-sign him based on the teams offensive drop off this season, it's a bad decision when you take into account all of the other issues from this season (injuries, signing light hitters, etc.)

[ORS]

Okay' date=' I see your point. But, Francona doesn't make the decision on who stays, who goes, the players don't make the decision on who stays and who goes, the FO does (maybe with input from the above). In the end though, IMHO, Jackson has done a great job the last 4 years with this team offensively. Ortiz, Manny, Youk, etc. If they decide not to re-sign him based on the teams offensive drop off this season, it's a bad decision when you take into account all of the other issues from this season (injuries, signing light hitters, etc.)[/quote']

If the decision to let him go is made, I think it will be based more on the comments than the 2nd half performance. There's little statisitcal evidence to make a case against Jackson. That said, if the nucleus of the team going forward isn't confident in his abilities, then I think they have to let him go despite his success in the past because I think a good deal of a hitting coach's success comes from the player being confident that the advice he gives is the right advice.

[BudLight]

I guess my opinion on coaching matters is slightly tainted being here in St. Louis. I can't stand LaRussa or Duncan with the Cardinals, I think they both are horrible and deserve to be canned. Then I see this with Jackson, who is highly respected and very successful as a hitting coach and wonder sometimes what people are thinking.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Throw out the pitching coaches

[MANNYHOF24]

It will be sad not to the here the Joe and Jerry combination I have grown a custom to over the years. I remember in the 03-04 Playoffs I muted the Tube and listen to the guys on the radio. The thing i liked the most was how much emotion they put into the broadcast, and how like the fans, they lived and died with every pitch. The combo will be missed by me.

[Papelbon58]

I would form a protest is Castiglione is gone. I got to meet him in Baltimore and he was a really nice guy. I read his book, great read for a Red Sox fan. He is almost unfirable. Trupiano leaving is fine with me. All he does is get your heart rate up for no good reason.

[example1]

f*** that. Keep Pap Jack, keep Castiglione. I don't care if Troupe needs to go somewhere. That's fine, he's kind of annoying som(WAYBACK!)etimes.

 

I know that players have attributed their production to Papa Jack in the past and I'd be willing to bet that other teams would bite off their left foot to get in in their clubhouse. The guy saw over 3 straight 900+ run teams, didn't he? If not then I'm mistaken and I apologize.

[Anuj09]

while they getting rid of the hitting coach could they fire Tito too ??

 

oh well i expect to hear a looooong press conference from Theo at the end of the post season explaining his plans to get the 07 Sox on track

[MC Hammer]

Let's get rid of the guy who helped mold the most feared hitter in the game ... that'll help the team.

[MANNYHOF24]

Theo's just trying to make excuses for the sucky season they have had. Its mostly the FO fault why we are not going to the playoffs this year.

[jsinger121]

Theo's just trying to make excuses for the sucky season they have had. Its mostly the FO fault why we are not going to the playoffs this year.

 

Did the FO cause all the injuries on this team?

[a700hitter]

Did the FO cause all the injuries on this team?

This team was thin coming out of ST. It had a weak bench, a poorly constructed bullpen and a starting rotation that was full of question mark. It was a team where everyone needed to stay healthy and perform well in order to make the playoffs. With the age and question marks on the team, that was fairly improbable. They got a few key injuries and the whole team unraveled because it was so thin. The Yankees had more key injuries, but they were deeper and the FO reinforced as necessary and they have the best record in the AL. You can't blame the 3rd place finish on the injuries, because the Yankees had more injuries. It was most definitely the fault of the FO.

[MC Hammer]

Did the FO cause all the injuries on this team?

Did Papa Jack?

 

This is all just a big finger pointing game. Firing anyone after this season would be a huge mistake, because it'd just be a move to save face.

[example1]

This team was thin coming out of ST. It had a weak bench' date=' a poorly constructed bullpen and a starting rotation that was full of question mark. It was a team where everyone needed to stay healthy and perform well in order to make the playoffs. With the age and question marks on the team, that was fairly improbable. They got a few key injuries and the whole team unraveled because it was so thin. The Yankees had more key injuries, but they were deeper and the FO reinforced as necessary and they have the best record in the AL. You can't blame the 3rd place finish on the injuries, because the Yankees had more injuries. It was most definitely the fault of the FO.[/quote']

 

You can't pretend that this was all obvious before the season a700. That's disingenuous. The bullpen was poorly constructed in retrospect, but at the time the signings of Seanez and Tavarez didn't seem too bad. Seanez had a tremendous season last year. EVERY team other than the NYY generally needs to stay healthy and perform well in order to make the playoffs. That's the game.

 

This team wasn't that much of a disappointment, the end of their season was.

[a700hitter]

Did Papa Jack?

 

This is all just a big finger pointing game. Firing anyone after this season would be a huge mistake, because it'd just be a move to save face.

No one should be fired for not making the playoffs for the first time in four years. The manager, coaches and FO should all get a chance in 2007, but if the team falls out of it next August with a big payroll, heads will roll.

[example1]

No one should be fired for not making the playoffs for the first time in four years. The manager' date=' coaches and FO should all get a chance in 2007, but if the team falls out of it next August with a big payroll, heads will roll.[/quote']

 

Who is that? A700hitter? Who took over your mind man?

 

I agree with this 100%, probably for the first time ever.

[a700hitter]

Who is that? A700hitter? Who took over your mind man?

 

I agree with this 100%, probably for the first time ever.

I never said that anyone should be fired, but I do feel strongly that the FO should be held accountable. I think today many more people think the FO didn't do a very good job than when I started criticizing them months ago.

[example1]

I never said that anyone should be fired' date=' but I do feel strongly that the FO should be held accountable. I think today many more people think the FO didn't do a very good job than when I started criticizing them months ago.[/quote']

 

Meh :dunno: I was just teasing you man

 

I just don't blame the FO that much. They (and everyone else) said they could very likely finish 3rd. They did. They had a better season than I thought they would. They just deflated down the stretch. Like a balloon. It was ugly.

 

I think they'll be back next year.

[a700hitter]

Meh :dunno: I was just teasing you man

 

I just don't blame the FO that much. They (and everyone else) said they could very likely finish 3rd.

Maybe they thought that privately, but they never said that publicly. They played the public PR game that they were doing their best to put out a winning team, but they clearly didn't.

They had a better season than I thought they would. They just deflated down the stretch. Like a balloon. It was ugly.

 

I think they'll be back next year.

It was indeed ugly. I hope they'll be back next season, but they'll need to be aggressive with trades and FA's if they want to challenge for a title next year. The kids are not ready to carry them yet.

[jsinger121]

Both Ron Jackson and Dave Wallace will not be back. It is official now.

[EvilDonut]

That makes me sad.

[Papelbon58]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2610544

[Papelbon58]

this is absolutely ridiculous. Wallace I can understand, but what in gods name did Jackson do to get fired?

[Papelbon58]

here's an idea, lets fire Francona too and hire Girardi