Red Sox Sound Off

[schillingouttheks]

In Theo we....don't trust...anymore.

[Beckett95]

No, I think it was more Beckett was thrown in so the Marlins would get rid of Lowell.

ya what i meant was the Marlins wanted the team who traded for Beckett, to take Lowell also.

[example1]

1. Sign Matsuzaka (I believe he's actually 26, not 23)(I think I saw he was born in 1980?). He may cost a lot of money, but if he's as good as advertised then he's worth it.

 

2. Do whatever it takes to get Roy Oswalt.

 

3. Start finding a catcher to take over for Tek in two years.

 

4. Let Timlin go

 

5. Get another closer. Use him to setup or as a closer, depending on what Papelbon does.

Then get another reliever, and another.

 

6. f***ing ask Papelbon which role he wants to do and let him do it. Keep him happy and let him dominate.

 

7. Pick up Loretta's option and package him with either Crisp or Pena to get the best available CF (Wells perhaps, including a mid-level prospect to close the deal as well; or Andruw Jones) or best available SP.

 

8. Bring up Pedroia THIS season, introduce him to Sox fans and let them salivate a little.

 

There is a lot of work to be done. This team has a good nucleus, it just needs to gel a little bit before it takes off. Pitching, pitching, pitching.

[BoSox21]

why the f*** couldnt we get Moyer instead of the Phils?

[schillingouttheks]

why the f*** couldnt we get Moyer instead of the Phils?

Because renting a 43 year old pitcher for a month and a half isn't worth it. This team is far away from being fixed by someone like Moyer.

[example1]

In Theo we....don't trust...anymore.

 

People are just looking for a scapegoat and Theo is the last one people should point fingers at. This team has the players it needed to be competitive this season.... not necessarily win it all (which is largely a matter of luck), but to be competitive. Tavarez and Seanaez, two proven MLB relievers, have blown. Tek and Trot (the spiritual leaders of this team) have been injured of late (before that this team was in 1st and looked like one of the top 3 teams in baseball). Coco was hurt and has been slow coming back. Clement has been hurt and disappointing. Wells has been hurt. Arroyo is overrated and blessed by the same factors (namely the NL) that allowed Seanez and Tavarez, along with Beckett, to LOOK so good. That trade is NOT the worst in history.

 

It was Larry L. who wanted the Beckett deal. Not Theo. The entire sox FO understood that this season was going to be a retooling season, whether you guys like it or not. In other words, the guys who are SPENDING 120 million dollars understand that its about retooling, but the fans can't be patient enough to deal with it. The biggest shame is that Pedroia has not been up and contributing to the big-club, and that Lester has been forced to.

 

This team has something like $30 million in payroll locked up through 2010, while the Yankees have something like $130 million locked up through the same time. There is considerable flexibility there.

[example1]

Because renting a 43 year old pitcher for a month and a half isn't worth it. This team is far away from being fixed by someone like Moyer.

 

:shock: really? (that's sarcasm, in case it wasn't really obvious)!

[schillingouttheks]

I'm not criticizing the Beckett deal. I've been a big supporter of it. However, I do question the boneheaded moves of signing Tavarez and Seanez. I'm not the only one that opposed the signings since day 1.

 

Say all you want about the injuries, but I don't see those as excuses. Tek, sure, I'll make an exception as he is the heart and soul of this team, but the Yankees lost Matsui and Sheffield, and still have Pavano inactive who has a serious case of vaginitis. So what do the Yankees do? They made moves. They went out and got nice bats in Craig Wilson and Bobby Abreu. They also got a back of the end starter in Cory Lidle. What did Theo do? Bryan Corey? Give me a f***ing break. The team's needs were evident for 2 months, and all Theo did was get Bryan Corey who is pitching in AAA at the moment.

 

Say all you want about a re-tooling year, but a team that's re-tooling, which also happens to have a payroll of 120 million dollars, has no excuses to make if they don't make the playoffs.

[example1]

I'm not criticizing the Beckett deal. I've been a big supporter of it. However, I do question the boneheaded moves of signing Tavarez and Seanez. I'm not the only one that opposed the signings since day 1.

 

Say all you want about the injuries, but I don't see those as excuses. Tek, sure, I'll make an exception as he is the heart and soul of this team, but the Yankees lost Matsui and Sheffield, and still have Pavano inactive who has a serious case of vaginitis. So what do the Yankees do? They made moves. They went out and got nice bats in Craig Wilson and Bobby Abreu. They also got a back of the end starter in Cory Lidle. What did Theo do? Bryan Corey? Give me a f***ing break. The team's needs were evident for 2 months, and all Theo did was get Bryan Corey who is pitching in AAA at the moment.

 

Say all you want about a re-tooling year, but a team that's re-tooling, which also happens to have a payroll of 120 million dollars, has no excuses to make if they don't make the playoffs.

 

This is a team that has tried again and again and again to move 20 million of that payroll in the form of their LF. They pay Schilling something like 15 million a year due to his WS incentives (it should be 12 or so), and Foulke 6 million a year to blow games. Add to that the 5 million that Tavarez and Seanez make and you're looking at a team that should realistically be around 100million.

 

If money were the ultimate factor than your argument SHOULD be "the yankees spend more than the sox by a HUGE margin, therefore, I shouldn't be stupid enough to expect them to win". Instead you want the best of both worlds.

 

It's not all about salary. The Yankees traded their #1 pick from last season to get Abreu to add to an already bloated OF. Yes, they lost Sheffield and Matsui, but many of us have argued in the past that the best teams are NOT made exclusively of superstars but rather need a mix of superstars and role players. That's what the Yanks are right now.

 

s*** happens guys, and some seasons your team isn't going to win it all or even make the playoffs. I understand that's a fact of life.

 

Would you rather the Sox NOT spend a lot of money to take the CHANCE of making the playoffs or winning the WS?

 

2003: Sox don't win the East and lose by a hair

2004: Sox win the WS after BARELY and LUCKILY winning the ALCS

2005: Sox BARELY make it into the playoffs and lose in 3 straight.

 

People around here tend to look at things that are a combination of luck and talent as being nothing but good planning and talent. Even well run teams do not always find the pieces to win year after year after year.

 

How many teams have EVER repeated as WS champions? Your expectations appear short-sighted and do not respect the luck that is involved in making and winning in the playoffs. The 04 team made some moves that ended up being helpful, got a lot of help from other teams, and stayed remarkably free of injuries. Anyone who says otherwise about ANY TEAM THAT WINS IT ALL is being unrealistic.

[schillingouttheks]

I'm not saying that I blame Theo for the team not making the playoffs. I blame Theo for not doing as much as he could to help our chances. I understand that you can't win every year, and I also realize the luck that's needed. That being said, none of that excuses the fact that Theo didn't do everything he could to help this team's chances. By the time July 31st came around, how long had we known that we needed some serious bullpen help, along with a solid starter that could give us a chance to win when he took the mound? About 2 months. Nothing got done. And that's my point.

 

People are going to think I'm beating a dead horse, but I don't really care because I'm in the correct thread. Letting Damon go was a mistake, and we're watching it happen. Letting Pedro go was a mistake. Not acquiring a starter like Lidle was a mistake. And maybe, just maybe, Theo will get a slap in the face as he watches Damon, Lidle, Abreu, and Pedro play in the '06 world series.

 

But Damon and Pedro weren't worth the money Now we sit back and watch Damon hit 20 doubles a game against us en route to a complete embarrassment of our beloved Red Sox, and watch Pedro tear it up with the Mets. I don't give a s*** if it's in the NL, he's obviously learned how to pitch with his loss of velocity, and he still looks like an overpowering pitcher.

 

Also, if he had some balls, he'd go out and compete for pitchers in the off-season. We wouldn't get stuck with the Clements, Snyders, and Jason Johnsons of the world. Hell, we may actually have an impact starting pitcher or two, because we all know we have the resources to make it happen. This team has been managed in such a way to save us money. Well, goddamn it, use that money that we saved and go out and compete for some friggin' pitching!

 

Look, I like Theo. I'm forever thankful for what he did for us in 2004. It's just that, recently, I've been wondering where his head has been, and I fear it's been up his ass.

[example1]

I'm not saying that I blame Theo for the team not making the playoffs. I blame Theo for not doing as much as he could to help our chances. I understand that you can't win every year, and I also realize the luck that's needed. That being said, none of that excuses the fact that Theo didn't do everything he could to help this team's chances. By the time July 31st came around, how long had we known that we needed some serious bullpen help, along with a solid starter that could give us a chance to win when he took the mound? About 2 months. Nothing got done. And that's my point.

 

People are going to think I'm beating a dead horse, but I don't really care because I'm in the correct thread. Letting Damon go was a mistake, and we're watching it happen. Letting Pedro go was a mistake. Not acquiring a starter like Lidle was a mistake. And maybe, just maybe, Theo will get a slap in the face as he watches Damon, Lidle, Abreu, and Pedro play in the '06 world series.

 

But Damon and Pedro weren't worth the money Now we sit back and watch Damon hit 20 doubles a game against us en route to a complete embarrassment of our beloved Red Sox, and watch Pedro tear it up with the Mets. I don't give a s*** if it's in the NL, he's obviously learned how to pitch with his loss of velocity, and he still looks like an overpowering pitcher.

 

Personally, I would say that if the season ended today i would have been a success. Most "pundits" predicted that the Blue Jays were going to finish ahead of the sox this year so perhaps the Jays should be really disappointed too.

Also, if he had some balls, he'd go out and compete for pitchers in the off-season. We wouldn't get stuck with the Clements, Snyders, and Jason Johnsons of the world. Hell, we may actually have an impact starting pitcher or two, because we all know we have the resources to make it happen. This team has been managed in such a way to save us money. Well, goddamn it, use that money that we saved and go out and compete for some friggin' pitching!

 

Look, I like Theo. I'm forever thankful for what he did for us in 2004. It's just that, recently, I've been wondering where his head has been, and I fear it's been up his ass.

 

I agree with you about Damon. I don't agree with you about Pedro. Both of those guys were selfish and wanted deals that were unrealistic. Damon was the bigger loss in my opinion as Pedro is a consistent injury risk, as he has proven time and time again.

 

I'm not sure who you would propose moving for "relief help", or who you propose they should have gone after. The better question should be "what the f*** happened to Seanez and Tavarez?" Nobody could have predicted their horrible collapse, its as simple as that.

 

Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20 and Damon looks pretty good right now. Pedro would be a nice complement to Schilling and Beckett too, but not for 15 a year.

 

Otherwise, good post. You and I agree on a lot of things (and don't worry about beating dead horses... its a long season worthy of horse-abuse)

[schillingouttheks]

Yeah, I guess I'm a little greedy when it comes to the relief help. I suppose I've just been so irritated with our shittiness lately it's starting to get to my head. I honestly can't say what I would have done in terms of relief help...

 

I'm just hoping there's a good FA market for relievers. I wouldn't mind taking a chance on Gagne (with lots of incentives in the contract, not too much guaranteed money), and picking up Francisco Cordero. Maybe take a chance with Mota? He was pretty good before his injury. I have a good amount of faith that Delcarmen and Hansen will be much better next year, though they will still have some work to do.

 

Any other appealing names? For some reason I thought Mike Gonzalez was a FA. Is that true?

[Jon_Papelboner]

Why play the blame game? the sox aren't out of anything.

[riverside sluggers]

7. Pick up Loretta's option and package him with either Crisp or Pena to get the best available CF (Wells perhaps, including a mid-level prospect to close the deal as well; or Andruw Jones) or best available SP.

 

Loretta doesnt have an option year on him, he will be officially a free agent. 2006 was his option year as part of his contract with the Padres.

 

Toronto would want more than Loretta packaged with Crisp or Pena for Wells, considering they are dealing with Boston.

 

As for Seanez... everyone on here was nervous about his signing from day 1. Just looking at his past stats in the AL (including Boston) I got nervous right away

[Dana Kiecker]

Okay... Ive had a good nights sleep and a chance to digest this 28 walks in 27 inning performance.

 

Was it not the theory going into this season that Beckette was to be a co-ace, with Schilling? THIS SEASON!!

 

Im tired of hearing .. well he will develope... He isnt ven close to an ace.. the guy is a fundemental wreck and I probablyshould have highlighted the word mental.

 

If he was evn somewhat respectable this team would still be in this.

 

Just one slice of the blame pie..

[example1]

Loretta doesnt have an option year on him, he will be officially a free agent. 2006 was his option year as part of his contract with the Padres.

 

Toronto would want more than Loretta packaged with Crisp or Pena for Wells, considering they are dealing with Boston.

 

Clearly. You see where I'm going with it though.

 

I'm not sold on having to move Crisp. I actually like him a lot and feel that if he had been able to keep playing all year his season would have been different. He got off to a great start this season and looked patient and confident at the plate, then he got injured and has taken awhile to get back to form.

 

That being said, he is pretty valuable as a trading piece.

[a700hitter]

People are just looking for a scapegoat and Theo is the last one people should point fingers at. This team has the players it needed to be competitive this season.... not necessarily win it all (which is largely a matter of luck), but to be competitive.

Compete for what 3rd place in the wild card race. Clearly this team didn't have good pitching from the beginning. Clearly, the bullpen was stocked with bums from the first day of ST. That's what forced Papelbon to the Pen.

 

It was Larry L. who wanted the Beckett deal. Not Theo. The entire sox FO understood that this season was going to be a retooling season, whether you guys like it or not. In other words, the guys who are SPENDING 120 million dollars understand that its about retooling, but the fans can't be patient enough to deal with it. The biggest shame is that Pedroia has not been up and contributing to the big-club, and that Lester has been forced to.

While Beckett has been a disappointment, without him we'd have to replace his 13 wins. That would leave us in a class with Tampa. Partience by the fans who pay the highest ticket prices in baseball? That's not even warranted to ask for that. The other 5 highest payroll teams are making solid playoff runs and if the two LA teams make it, then 5 of the highest 6 payroll teams will be in the playoffs. The #2 team will be at home. When the Mets had the 2nd highest payroll and didn't make the playoffs, Phillips head rolled. Duke's head rolled.

[a700hitter]

This is a team that has tried again and again and again to move 20 million of that payroll in the form of their LF.

Thank god they were not successful in their attempt, because that would have accelerated our move to being a s***** team. Manny has been a major piece of the formula that has made this team successful. They got rid of one Hall of Famer who would still be our #2 pitcher on this staff. They let the best CF-leadoff hitter go to the Yankees and he is getting better. Dumping manny would have made this into a third world team. Manny, Pedro and Damons don't grow in the minors like a bumper crop, and they are rarely even found oun the FA shelf. We had them. The FO let two of them get away. It could be 10 years before we see replacements that are as good as these guys. IMO we'll never see another Pedro.

[jsinger121]

Thank god they were not successful in their attempt, because that would have accelerated our move to being a s***** team. Manny has been a major piece of the formula that has made this team successful. They got rid of one Hall of Famer who would still be our #2 pitcher on this staff. They let the best CF-leadoff hitter go to the Yankees and he is getting better. Dumping manny would have made this into a third world team. Manny, Pedro and Damons don't grow in the minors like a bumper crop, and they are rarely even found oun the FA shelf. We had them. The FO let two of them get away. It could be 10 years before we see replacements that are as good as these guys. IMO we'll never see another Pedro.

 

Pedro is looking pretty good from the DL right now.

[Beckett95]

My FO to-do list....

 

1. Bring in Matsuszaka at 5 years/58 million. If we end up not getting him, go hard after Schmidt.

 

2. Trade Lester, Hansen, Willy Mo, David Murphy and some cash for Oswalt, Berkman and Brad Lidge (maybe Wheeler instead of Lidge). The Stros could be in for a rebuilding year, like the marlins of last year. This move would move the Sox back to the top of the AL East (unless the Yankees go out and make some ridiculous move, which is probably likely)

 

3. Sign Fransisco Cordero and Eddie Guardado. I know this all will cost a lot of money, but is needed if the Sox want to surpass the yankees.

 

4. Trade Loretta right now for Wilfredo Ledezma. Loretta did his job here, but with him being 34, a UFA and the Sox most likely missing the playoffs, move him now and get something in return

 

5. Sign Gonzo to a 2 or 3 year deal. Shouldnt need to explain this.

 

when all is said and done, this is what the team would look like...

 

1. Coco--CF (i think he'll turn it around next year and hit .300 with a .360+ obp)

2. Pedroia--2nd

3. Ortiz--DH

4. Manny--LF

5. Berkman--RF

6. Youk--1st

7. Varitek--C

8. Lowell--3rd

9. Gonzo--SS

 

Hinske--OF/1ST/3RD

Cora--INF

Mirrabelli--C

Preston Wilson--OF

 

1. Oswalt

2. Schiliing

3. Matsusaka

4. Beckett

5. Wake

 

LRP--Dinardo

6th inning guy--Tavarez

7th inning--Lidge

7th inning--Delcarmen

8th inning--Cordero

8th inning--Guardado

closer--Papelbon

 

 

PITCHING >>>>>> hitting

[Beckett95]

heres an interesting stat that shows how bad, the sox pitching has been over the last 30 days

 

Red Sox, over the last 30 days, have the worst ERA (6.22), as a team, in baseball.

 

second worst is KC and BAL with team ERA's of 5.46

[a700hitter]

Pedro is looking pretty good from the DL right now.

Talk to me after October, becuase that's why they are resting him. They have that luxury, because they are a lock for the post season. BTW: He has a .692 winning % since leaving us. He's slipping, but he's still great. He'd be our #2 withou question.

[jsinger121]

Talk to me after October, becuase that's why they are resting him. They have that luxury, because they are a lock for the post season. BTW: He has a .692 winning % since leaving us. He's slipping, but he's still great. He'd be our #2 withou question.

 

They might be a lock for the postseason but they are far from a lock to reach the WS. And with the news about Glavine the pressure is on an aging Pedro to carry them something I don't think he can do.

[Mr Crunchy]

i think petey is toast

he cant break 90 on the gun

his 692% translated into the al east would be .500 or worse

the year he left he got beaten like a drum during the stretch run

when was the last time he beat the yankees as a member of the sox??

for 15M per we need a guy who can beat them

he couldnt in 04 and hes gotten worse since,not better

meanwhile over in flushing meadows the mets are relying on maine orlando hernandez and stevie trachsel to get to october while glavine may be gone forever and petey rests his

(1)toe

(2)hip

(3)calf

(4)what next??

i love martinez,i despise what the front office stuffed up our asses in july but not paying petey was a good move

[a700hitter]

i think petey is toast

he cant break 90 on the gun

his 692% translated into the al east would be .500 or worse

the year he left he got beaten like a drum during the stretch run

when was the last time he beat the yankees as a member of the sox??

for 15M per we need a guy who can beat them

he couldnt in 04 and hes gotten worse since,not better

meanwhile over in flushing meadows the mets are relying on maine orlando hernandez and stevie trachsel to get to october while glavine may be gone forever and petey rests his

(1)toe

(2)hip

(3)calf

(4)what next??

i love martinez,i despise what the front office stuffed up our asses in july but not paying petey was a good move

That's total unfounded speculation on your part about what his performance would be if he were in the AL East. When he was in the AL East even after his injury he was winning games at a .700 clip. Let's see how badly the Hall of Famer is toasted when the spotlight is on him in October, and the Red Sox have to back up a truck to load on the garbage from their pitching staff.

[a700hitter]

They might be a lock for the postseason but they are far from a lock to reach the WS. And with the news about Glavine the pressure is on an aging Pedro to carry them something I don't think he can do.

He can't win all the games by himself. He couldn't do it in 1999 when he was at his peak. I don't care about the Met and whether they get to the WS, but it will hurt watching Petey perform on a big stage for someone else.

[jsinger121]

He can't win all the games by himself. He couldn't do it in 1999 when he was at his peak. I don't care about the Met and whether they get to the WS, but it will hurt watching Petey perform on a big stage for someone else.

 

I really could care less because it is the nature of the business. I don't expect him to do anything for the Mets in the postseason.

[a700hitter]

I really could care less because it is the nature of the business. I don't expect him to do anything for the Mets in the postseason.

What does that mean that it's the nature of the business? Giving up your stars and reliable players and replacing them with inferior ones? Is that what you mean?

[ORS]

I'm in favor of allowing the full 4 years to pass before passing the ulitimate judgement on the Pedro and Damon decisions. That said, this team has a commanding lead in the AL East with both of them on the roster, and it's tough to make any claim that they aren't. Pedro has been very successful against the Yankees as a member of the Mets. Damon is having a career year. They need to fall off the table pretty badly and the "future" needs to step it up quite a bit over the next 2 to 3 years for the net result to be a favorable one.

[jsinger121]

What does that mean that it's the nature of the business? Giving up your stars and reliable players and replacing them with inferior ones? Is that what you mean?

 

What I mean is not giving 15 million to a pitcher who can't hit 90 on the radar gun anymore and likely would have gotten beaten up in the AL east. Pedro was a star. He is no longer a #1 pitcher anymore. You simply do not award a player on past performance.