Bullpen by Committee

[SCM33]

Here's my 2 cents worth. . . I've been a Sox fan for over 30 years, and, right around this time of the season, they just don't seem to "want it" like the Skankees do.

 

They dont want to win in front of some of baseball fans in the country? No offense but since the new ownership took over I dont think that is true at all, weve had some big "gamers" over the last couple of years and many of them want nothing but to bring titles to Boston.

[a700hitter]

he's a red sox fan?

 

i didnt notice

Yes, I root for the Red Sox, but I am not a fan of the FO, because as far as I know, they don't play any games. I am sorry if you are a fan of the FO, because that must be very boring.<_>

[example1]

Dude, owning ANYTHING as lucritive as the Red Sox is going to make you lots of money. However, this group how done many things that are good for the red sox, and they put up hundreds of millions of dollars to buy the team.

 

They care about the product they put on the field. Lucchino is a maniac man, he's probably TOO involved in baseball operations. Epstein traded Garciaparra for christsakes!!! He took an enormous risk in the face of one of the most beloved Sox players of all times, and got us a World Series. That could have gone horribly wrong.

[a700hitter]

Dude, owning ANYTHING as lucritive as the Red Sox is going to make you lots of money. However, this group how done many things that are good for the red sox, and they put up hundreds of millions of dollars to buy the team.

 

They care about the product they put on the field. Lucchino is a maniac man, he's probably TOO involved in baseball operations. Epstein traded Garciaparra for christsakes!!! He took an enormous risk in the face of one of the most beloved Sox players of all times, and got us a World Series. That could have gone horribly wrong.

I am not saying the ownership has done a terrible job. I never said that they didn't care. They have done many good things for the franchise, but they have also made many player personnel mistakes, and as a result, the product on the field is not as good as it should be.

[example1]

I am not saying the ownership has done a terrible job. I never said that they didn't care. They have done many good things for the franchise, but they have also made many player personnel mistakes, and as a result, the product on the field is not as good as it should be.

 

You know, you're totally right. I just had the impression that you were giving him less credit than I gave you credit for (if that makes sense). There were a few moves that it seems like could have been handled more professionally, but according to "feeding the monster" (the new sox book) it looks like there was a lot of miscommunication/competitiveness between Luchino and Theo that kept some things from happening. For instance, Theo was largely against the Beckett deal due to his fear about injuries. This would be a different team if Hanley were available and Sanchez were able to come up and be the 5th starter. That said, I like Beckett.

 

The team got straight PLAYED by Scott Bor******* in the Damon deal, who--according to the author--saw this as an opportunity a) to get himself a lot of money and open the door to other players going from the Sox to the Yanks of vise-versa. In other words, Damon may be the first in a long string of Sox and yanks that make that move.

 

In any case, that book really highlighted the difficulty that running a team like the Sox entails. It is very amazing that ANYTHING gets done in that FO given the egos that are involved in all negotiations.

[a700hitter]

You know, you're totally right. I just had the impression that you were giving him less credit than I gave you credit for (if that makes sense). There were a few moves that it seems like could have been handled more professionally, but according to "feeding the monster" (the new sox book) it looks like there was a lot of miscommunication/competitiveness between Luchino and Theo that kept some things from happening. For instance, Theo was largely against the Beckett deal due to his fear about injuries. This would be a different team if Hanley were available and Sanchez were able to come up and be the 5th starter. That said, I like Beckett.

 

The team got straight PLAYED by Scott Bor******* in the Damon deal, who--according to the author--saw this as an opportunity a) to get himself a lot of money and open the door to other players going from the Sox to the Yanks of vise-versa. In other words, Damon may be the first in a long string of Sox and yanks that make that move.

 

In any case, that book really highlighted the difficulty that running a team like the Sox entails. It is very amazing that ANYTHING gets done in that FO given the egos that are involved in all negotiations.

I have to get that book. It sounds very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to understand that while my posts are critical of the FO moves they are not a blanket indictment of this ownership group. Sometimes I get the feeling that people just see the criticism without reading the reasons for the criticism. It's hard to have a thoughtful discussion when some people respond with posts telling me to root for the Yankees. That's just so ridiculous. Id rather cut off a limb than root for them. However, I think the Yankee FO is very professional and highly competent. At times they have out-maneuvered our FO.

[SCM33]

I have to get that book. It sounds very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to understand that while my posts are critical of the FO moves they are not a blanket indictment of this ownership group. Sometimes I get the feeling that people just see the criticism without reading the reasons for the criticism. It's hard to have a thoughtful discussion when some people respond with posts telling me to root for the Yankees. That's just so ridiculous. Id rather cut off a limb than root for them. However, I think the Yankee FO is very professional and highly competent. At times they have out-maneuvered our FO.

 

Good post. I apologize for not completely understanding the motives behind your posts. Maybe I am a little too pro-Theo. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. I do not always agree with the FO either, sometimes I scratch my head at s*** they do, but I don't feel this season is their fault. I think they had a plan going in to the season and they stuck to their guns regardless if they were in first place or third. I like you grew very frustrated they didnt acquire anyone during the deadline, but it appeared besides Oswalt there wasn't many quality people to bring in here. Sometimes the best deal is the one you don't make. So I apologize for not seeing where you come from, as long as you also see where I come from.

[Sox Fan on Cape]

I have to get that book. It sounds very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to understand that while my posts are critical of the FO moves they are not a blanket indictment of this ownership group. Sometimes I get the feeling that people just see the criticism without reading the reasons for the criticism. It's hard to have a thoughtful discussion when some people respond with posts telling me to root for the Yankees. That's just so ridiculous. Id rather cut off a limb than root for them. However, I think the Yankee FO is very professional and highly competent. At times they have out-maneuvered our FO.

A large portion of your respones and posts are based on passion and hatred for other teams. While passion is a a good thing, at times it shpold be tempered with reason. BTW, this has nothing to do with the thread. " Bullpen by Commitee " it hasn't and never will exist. It was "Closer by Commitee" . So, anyone responding to the title is full of it, and anyone else responding to off track comments is too. As for me, I'm a lost navigator, who lost his way and has diarrhea, therefore I can't be full of it.

[example1]

I have to get that book. It sounds very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to understand that while my posts are critical of the FO moves they are not a blanket indictment of this ownership group. Sometimes I get the feeling that people just see the criticism without reading the reasons for the criticism. It's hard to have a thoughtful discussion when some people respond with posts telling me to root for the Yankees. That's just so ridiculous. Id rather cut off a limb than root for them. However, I think the Yankee FO is very professional and highly competent. At times they have out-maneuvered our FO.

 

I agree with you on most of these points. Some of your posts, if taken in the wrong contexts or at the wrong time... ( top of the tenth, tie game)... could be seen as those of either the most horribly depressed Red Sox fan in the world, or the workings of a wolf-in-sheep's clothing. I know you're a fan, but you're obviously either highly stressed or depressed about this team, which is a trait you oly partially share with most of us on this board.

 

I get the sense that there remains a silent optimism amongst most Red Sox fans around here. We all realize that the Sox are not in 1st, and not a lock for the post season. We also realize that, just a few weeks ago, this team looked unbeatable. The last few years have largely been streaks like that, with periods of good play (when we brag about the team) and poor/unlucky play (where we are on a roller-coaster that ultimately crashes).

 

Schilling is having a great year. Manny is arguably having the second-best year of his career, and Ortiz his best. Papelbon is easily one of the top 5 closers in baseball overall right now, and on any given day he is as difficult to hit as anyone in baseball. Beckett has been up and down, granted, but Youkilis, Loretta and Lowell are all positive surprises while Gonzalez has turned his season around offensively. Crisp has been disappointing overall, but has shown flashes of why the sox got him. I think he'll have a full effect either in the stretch, or next year (when he gets a chance to start over). Lester has been a pleasant surprise that makes me want to see the other highly touted (and thusfar successful) prospects we have up our sleeve.

 

I agree about the Yankee FO being professional and competant. Any business that large and on that stage needs to be top-notch in terms of personnel and theory. I personally think the Red Sox are better in terms of both though. They only lack the owner who is willing to pay over and over for players who may or may not work out/fit with the team. Other than that they are likely more at the cutting edge in terms of management theory and sabermetrics.

 

They hired Bill James for f***sakes.

 

That does not guarantee a WS or even playoff appearance, since all of baseball is about probabilities. However, when extended over, say, 10 years (beginning in 2003) the chances of winning with those theories increase. If you're in or near the playoffs for 10 years in a row you have a higher probability of winning the series than those who are only in it for a year or two of every 10. Few teams manage to do it over the long term, except for the Yankees.

[example1]

A large portion of your respones and posts are based on passion and hatred for other teams. While passion is a a good thing, at times it shpold be tempered with reason. BTW, this has nothing to do with the thread. " Bullpen by Commitee " it hasn't and never will exist. It was "Closer by Commitee" . So, anyone responding to the title is full of it, and anyone else responding to off track comments is too. As for me, I'm a lost navigator, who lost his way and has diarrhea, therefore I can't be full of it.

 

Yeah, I started the post so I'll take the hit for the title. Although, by extension of a closer by committee wouldn't you also have a bullpen by committee?

 

In fact, after a quick search (literally 20 seconds):

 

http://sports.mainetoday.com/seadogs/stories/030407seadogs.shtml

 

The Red Sox bucked the trend of relying on a closer and other relievers in set roles. Instead, they're using what's called "closer by committee" or "bullpen by committee." It's been a source of media scrutiny, which Kipper said is no big deal.

 

"A bullpen by committee can work. It worked in Pittsburgh," he said. "From 1990-91, that's all we had was bullpen by committee. I had to be ready from the first inning on.

 

"He" is SeaDogs Pitching Coach Bob Kipper. Do you think he is "full of it too?"

 

wow, here's another example of it being used:

 

from: http://athomeplate.com/sb2705.shtml

 

Any single pitcher cannot replace Benitez and the Giants know this. Hence, they are going to use a “bullpen-by-committee,” for the remainder of the season. Here is a look at the Giants’ full bullpen, along with each pitcher's 2005 and career statistics (current age in parentheses):

 

Off topic? Yes, but I that should end the ridiculuous foolery weighing down the post above! :harhar:

[Sox Fan on Cape]

Yeah, I started the post so I'll take the hit for the title. Although, by extension of a closer by committee wouldn't you also have a bullpen by committee?

 

In fact, after a quick search (literally 20 seconds):

 

http://sports.mainetoday.com/seadogs/stories/030407seadogs.shtml

 

 

 

 

 

"He" is SeaDogs Pitching Coach Bob Kipper. Do you think he is "full of it too?"

 

wow, here's another example of it being used:

 

from: http://athomeplate.com/sb2705.shtml

 

 

 

Off topic? Yes, but I that should end the ridiculuous foolery weighing down the post above! :harhar:

 

First chill out. I was responding and directing my comments to a700 Hitter ( as indicated by the quote ).Don't even try to give me extentions of logic. Because, that would mean that the bullpen can be changed at any time ( meaning day to day ), so starters could be moved to the bullpen and bullpen guys can be moved to be starters. Obviously, this wouldn't work. I believe if you do your research, there was a definate pattern for the Pirates in the one year they won.... "WE are Family" year.

[example1]

First chill out. I was responding and directing my comments to a700 Hitter ( as indicated by the quote ).Don't even try to give me extentions of logic. Because, that would mean that the bullpen can be changed at any time ( meaning day to day ), so starters could be moved to the bullpen and bullpen guys can be moved to be starters. Obviously, this wouldn't work. I believe if you do your research, there was a definate pattern for the Pirates in the one year they won.... "WE are Family" year.

 

I'm pretty chill, man. No worries. I'm just clarifying that while, yes, I perhaps used the wrong term, they are actually the same thing (bullpen vs. closer by committee). But it doesn't have too much relevance here. Just sayin'.

 

:dunno:

[a700hitter]

A large portion of your respones and posts are based on passion and hatred for other teams. While passion is a a good thing, at times it shpold be tempered with reason. BTW, this has nothing to do with the thread. " Bullpen by Commitee " it hasn't and never will exist. It was "Closer by Commitee" . So, anyone responding to the title is full of it, and anyone else responding to off track comments is too. As for me, I'm a lost navigator, who lost his way and has diarrhea, therefore I can't be full of it.

What teams do I hate other than the Yankees? Am I the only one here that is guitly of that? It's funny how the few posters who agree with my posts have seen the logic and reason of my arguments. Those who disagree can't. Just because you don't get it doesn't mean that it isn't there.

[a700hitter]

I agree with you on most of these points. Some of your posts, if taken in the wrong contexts or at the wrong time... ( top of the tenth, tie game)... could be seen as those of either the most horribly depressed Red Sox fan in the world, or the workings of a wolf-in-sheep's clothing. I know you're a fan, but you're obviously either highly stressed or depressed about this team, which is a trait you oly partially share with most of us on this board.

 

I get the sense that there remains a silent optimism amongst most Red Sox fans around here. We all realize that the Sox are not in 1st, and not a lock for the post season. We also realize that, just a few weeks ago, this team looked unbeatable. The last few years have largely been streaks like that, with periods of good play (when we brag about the team) and poor/unlucky play (where we are on a roller-coaster that ultimately crashes).

.

I hear you. I do tend to vent as things are going badly. This was a terrible weekend for all Red Sox fans and the playoff chances of our team. The things that I posted during the game struck a chord because most of the posters felt down at that time. Unfortunately, I will probably continue to vent about the managers moves, the umps, the FO, or whatever during losing games.:dunno: By way of general commentary not directed at Example 1, one thing that my targets all have in common is that they don't post here, so I don't understand the personal attacks that return. We are all fans of the same team, but an attack on the FO, the manager, an ump, or a player is not a personal attack on a poster calling for personal retaliation. Some people need to get a grip and realize that the posters on these boards have a common bond. We passionately root for the same team. That's why we are here. The players, FO and the manager really don't care what we say in these boards, yet we treat with more respect than our fellow posters. As for the Yankees and their fans...:thumbdown