How do you spell relief?

[ORS]

There's a Seanez faux-optimism thread, a thread calling for Tavarez' head, etc, etc. But I want to talk about the bullpen in general. Timlin coming back on Tuesday will be big. With him and Papelbon (bow before him), it is essentially a 7 inning game when they have the lead. But, what about those high-leverage situational relief spots in the 6th/7th innings? Who can we trust?

 

Right now, I have absolutely no faith in the trio of Seanez, Tavarez, & Foulke. They are just too inconsistent for my liking. Leads are squandered, come-back momentum is killed. They fail as often as they get the job done. If that is the norm for our middle relief, then those opportunities need to be part of the learning curve of the next generation. In terms of contract status, Seanez is the easiest to DFA, so dump him. Call up Hansen. And start giving the ball to him and MDC as regularly as they have been giving the ball to the three hosers mentioned. The lumps they will take like all rookies do won't be any worse than what we are seeing now.

 

Thoughts?

[Beckett95]

I agree. I have much more faith in MDC, Hansen and Van Buren than Foulke, Seanez and Tavarez. Riske is starting to look good to.

 

Im fine with a realiver having a bad game every once in a while, but Foulke, Seanez and Tavarez suck way to often

[TheKilo]

Keep in mind Riske has been better of late.

 

 

Right now I'd put Foulke on the DL, something is obviously not right. DFA Tavarez.

 

Call up Hansen and JVB or Holtz (just as a lefty).

[Beckett95]

Keep in mind Riske has been better of late.

 

 

Right now I'd put Foulke on the DL, something is obviously not right. DFA Tavarez.

 

Call up Hansen and JVB or Holtz (just as a lefty).

 

Screw Holtz, id use Breslow before him. I think Dinardo could be a huge boost to th pen when he comes back

[TheKilo]

Screw Holtz, id use Breslow before him. I think Dinardo could be a huge boost to th pen when he comes back

 

 

Forgot about Breslow. Wouldn't hurt to give him a shot.

[yankeessuck013]

In response to the title of this thread:

 

P-A-P-E-L-B-O-N

[CrespoBlows]

There's a Seanez faux-optimism thread, a thread calling for Tavarez' head, etc, etc. But I want to talk about the bullpen in general. Timlin coming back on Tuesday will be big. With him and Papelbon (bow before him), it is essentially a 7 inning game when they have the lead. But, what about those high-leverage situational relief spots in the 6th/7th innings? Who can we trust?

 

Right now, I have absolutely no faith in the trio of Seanez, Tavarez, & Foulke. They are just too inconsistent for my liking. Leads are squandered, come-back momentum is killed. They fail as often as they get the job done. If that is the norm for our middle relief, then those opportunities need to be part of the learning curve of the next generation. In terms of contract status, Seanez is the easiest to DFA, so dump him. Call up Hansen. And start giving the ball to him and MDC as regularly as they have been giving the ball to the three hosers mentioned. The lumps they will take like all rookies do won't be any worse than what we are seeing now.

 

Thoughts?

 

I don't know if I start releasing everyone because of one loss. Knee-jerk reactions don't often help teams.

 

The Red Sox are still in first place, and Mike Timlin will help stablize the bullpen. Seanez, and Taverez both sport ERA's over 4.5, and frankly I can't say I'm surprised. Though, in fairness to both of them, the two of them could both go on stretches where the can be dominant. I'm surprised so many people forgot that Seanez went exactly 38 days without allowing a run. Tavarez, was one of St. Louis' most dependable relievers for the last three years, both of them should be allowed to pitch until they show us they can't do it anymore.

 

The best way to work in our rookie relievers is the way they are pitching right now. Have Delcarmen, and Van Buren pitch in the 5th and 6th innings.

[Papelbon58]

i like Breslow, im not so sure about Lenny D, but im still in favor of JVB. He got the win against Richmond yesterday and has pitched well, save that one game.

Riske is coming back to form

Also, someone earlier today mentioned Sauerbeck being DFAd. I would pick him up

I really think we could use Tavarez and Seanez in trades and get them out of here if we keep Manny D and Hansen up and bring in Sauerbeck.

My main concern is the starters

[stretchy]

I'm not sure that we can call up Hansen until June 20--10 day requirement. Is this true?

 

JVB would be an immediate help

[Papelbon58]

absolutely correct, and JVB has a couple of days left required in the minors also

[CrespoBlows]

absolutely correct, and JVB has a couple of days left required in the minors also

 

JVB: 8 BB's 3 K's.

 

I don't how this is better then Seanez or Tavarez?

[Papelbon58]

4 of his walks came in the 13-5 game against the Yanks and in his 4 other games he has a 1.23 ERA in 7.1 innings with 3 Ks and 0 HRs allowed, something our bullpen could benefit from

[jsinger121]

It will be a crime if Delcarmen gets sent down.

[Matt]

Hopefully Delcarmen will be take over Tavarez's role as the Red Sox's 7th inning guy after his performance this weekend, but I find it unlikely since Francona is pretty stubborn when it comes to demoting and promoting players' roles on the team.

[ORS]

I don't know if I start releasing everyone because of one loss. Knee-jerk reactions don't often help teams.

This isn't knee-jerk at all. It is purely rational and calculated. If FTS (Foulke, Tavarez, Seanez) are going to be as inconsistent as they have been, then I see no reason to continue using them as they have been used. MDC, Hansen, VB (MHV) are going to take their lumps, which is pretty much what FTS have been doing, but MHV are part of this team moving forward, unlike FTS. If it is reasonable to expect the same level of performance from both groups, then go with the group that you have long-term plans for. That way you get their learning curve out of the way, or in the worst case scenario, find out if they aren't worth keeping.

[CrespoBlows]

This isn't knee-jerk at all. It is purely rational and calculated. If FTS (Foulke, Tavarez, Seanez) are going to be as inconsistent as they have been, then I see no reason to continue using them as they have been used. MDC, Hansen, VB (MHV) are going to take their lumps, which is pretty much what FTS have been doing, but MHV are part of this team moving forward, unlike FTS. If it is reasonable to expect the same level of performance from both groups, then go with the group that you have long-term plans for. That way you get their learning curve out of the way, or in the worst case scenario, find out if they aren't worth keeping.

 

You can't expect a rookie to come in a seemlessly make that jump. The only rookie that is ready for the show is Delcarmen, who won't be sent down in the near future. Hansen hasn't pitched that much in professional ball, and probably needs until August to get prepared for his role on the big-league club. (a la Papelbon 2005) I haven't at all been impressed with JVB, he doesn't have a whole lot of control, and only seems to have a fastball.

 

The veterans haven't been terrible, either. It was just yesterday, that Seanez went a month without allowing a run. Pitchers who have those kind of streaks, seem to be a good options out of the bullpen. Seanez has pretty good strikeout numbers, and his career statistics indicate that he can prevent hits, I'd keep him around. Tavarez has been badly misused by Terry Francona, arguably you could say his ERA would be under four, if Francona realized that middle relief pitchers can't throw 30 pitches on back to back days. As for Foulke? We'd have to eat over seven million dollars to discard him. Maybe we can work out a trade to a park that is friendly to fly-ball pitchers. (the Dodgers?)

 

I'm just as excited as everyone else is to see our prospects worked into our big-league club, but the Red Sox shouldn't panic when the are 1.0 game up on the Yankees for first place. The goal should be trying to develop Eric Gagnes, instead of Ryan Wagners. The best way to accomplish this is to have them improve at AAA, then when they get the expirence, they can be called up.

 

Oh, and USA soccer sucks.

[NomahsHammSammich]

Screw Holtz, id use Breslow before him. I think Dinardo could be a huge boost to th pen when he comes back

 

agreed...Holtz is terrible. I would rather take my chances with anything we have rather than give that Jobber any chances.

[NomahsHammSammich]

I am pretty sure I don't particularly like his contract...but Scott Eyre might be a nice addition to our pen come July 31st and he might not commmand all that much. Would be nice to have a lefty out there who doesn't suck.

[ORS]

You can't expect a rookie to come in a seemlessly make that jump. The only rookie that is ready for the show is Delcarmen, who won't be sent down in the near future. Hansen hasn't pitched that much in professional ball, and probably needs until August to get prepared for his role on the big-league club. (a la Papelbon 2005) I haven't at all been impressed with JVB, he doesn't have a whole lot of control, and only seems to have a fastball.

 

The veterans haven't been terrible, either. It was just yesterday, that Seanez went a month without allowing a run. Pitchers who have those kind of streaks, seem to be a good options out of the bullpen. Seanez has pretty good strikeout numbers, and his career statistics indicate that he can prevent hits, I'd keep him around. Tavarez has been badly misused by Terry Francona, arguably you could say his ERA would be under four, if Francona realized that middle relief pitchers can't throw 30 pitches on back to back days. As for Foulke? We'd have to eat over seven million dollars to discard him. Maybe we can work out a trade to a park that is friendly to fly-ball pitchers. (the Dodgers?)

 

I'm just as excited as everyone else is to see our prospects worked into our big-league club, but the Red Sox shouldn't panic when the are 1.0 game up on the Yankees for first place. The goal should be trying to develop Eric Gagnes, instead of Ryan Wagners. The best way to accomplish this is to have them improve at AAA, then when they get the expirence, they can be called up.

 

Oh, and USA soccer sucks.

I don't expect a seamless transition, but I think the 'seam' will have to Malaysian sweatshop horrible to be worse than what we are getting now. We'll have to agree to disagree.

[SCM33]

With the trouble we are having in the starting rotation, why not use tavarez as a starter? He has done it before, and is known for a rubber arm.

 

Its clear he doesnt have much value in the bullpen, and it is not always his fault (Franconas usage), but why not? That way when we get arms back, we can DL Clement, Wells and whomever else....just a thought to kick around....

[CrespoBlows]

With the trouble we are having in the starting rotation, why not use tavarez as a starter? He has done it before, and is known for a rubber arm.

 

Its clear he doesnt have much value in the bullpen, and it is not always his fault (Franconas usage), but why not? That way when we get arms back, we can DL Clement, Wells and whomever else....just a thought to kick around....

 

:shock: :shock:

 

Your idea----> http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39339000/jpg/_39339680_rings300pa.jpg

[TheKilo]

I honestly think the bullpen has been fairly good all year (much of that due to Papelbon).

 

 

We need better performances out of our starters.

[SCM33]

I honestly think the bullpen has been fairly good all year (much of that due to Papelbon).

 

 

We need better performances out of our starters.

 

Maybe...just maybe Tavarez could plug some of those holes...honestly, Id probably prefer to see him out there than that gutless Clement.

[Papelbon58]

Maybe...just maybe Tavarez could plug some of those holes...honestly, Id probably prefer to see him out there than that gutless Clement.

or we could trade him and a prospect like Murphy or another unneeded position for a 5 starter. I think putting Tavarez as a starter is only slightly better than running Lenny D out there

[Beckett95]

Tavarez hasn't started a game since 2002, and doesnt have good success starting, which is the reason he was moved to the pen. He probably would do a better job than Clement, but not to much. I dont see this happening anyway, but not a horrible idea.

[SCM33]

Tavarez hasn't started a game since 2002, and doesnt have good success starting, which is the reason he was moved to the pen. He probably would do a better job than Clement, but not to much. I dont see this happening anyway, but not a horrible idea.

 

Good responses guys...I do think it is very unlikely, but it makes for good conversation.

 

I think he was moved into the rotation because the cubs/marlins were both shorthanded at the time, and I also dont think he did all that bad. 2000 and 2001 he had eras in the mid fours.....which is leaps and bounds ahead of Clement. He struggled in 2002 with and ERA of 5.39.....which is, if anybody is counting.....still better than clement.

 

Nice to know that he did do it though.

[Beckett95]

id put Foulke on the 15 day DL, and during his rehab, have him start a few games and see how he does. I think he has the ability and stamina to be a starter, but he lacks 3 good pitches. If he can get his slider or splitter to work better, he could possibly be an adequate 5th starter

[Papelbon58]

Foulke? Are you serious? I'm not sure why we are discussing guys like Tavarez and Foulke as starters. We have Theo as GM number one, and number two, Pauley is not that bad. He can fill in for a while. Also, Abe Alvarez had a very good outing last night against Richmond

[Beckett95]

Abe Alvarez is a AAAA pitcher and will most likely never be a sucessfull starter in the pros.

Im not saying Foulke should start right away, but he isn't an effective reliever anymore and could possibly be used as a spot starter/long reliever. He needs to go on the DL and fix whatevers wrong with him, then my suggestion was is that he work on his other, lesser thrown pitches (slider, splitter) and maybe fill in as a 5th starter for a while or something.

 

If he has a couple rehab starts in AAA, and gets healthy again, he could seriously be a solid #5 starter. His WHIP isn't bad this year (1.22) and he has the ability to go 5, 6, or possibly 7 innings if needed. Just a suggestion, since he really has no other options left.

[seabeachfred]

There's a Seanez faux-optimism thread, a thread calling for Tavarez' head, etc, etc. But I want to talk about the bullpen in general. Timlin coming back on Tuesday will be big. With him and Papelbon (bow before him), it is essentially a 7 inning game when they have the lead. But, what about those high-leverage situational relief spots in the 6th/7th innings? Who can we trust?

 

Right now, I have absolutely no faith in the trio of Seanez, Tavarez, & Foulke. They are just too inconsistent for my liking. Leads are squandered, come-back momentum is killed. They fail as often as they get the job done. If that is the norm for our middle relief, then those opportunities need to be part of the learning curve of the next generation. In terms of contract status, Seanez is the easiest to DFA, so dump him. Call up Hansen. And start giving the ball to him and MDC as regularly as they have been giving the ball to the three hosers mentioned. The lumps they will take like all rookies do won't be any worse than what we are seeing now.

 

Thoughts?[/quote

 

What's there to think about? If you even peruse some of the other Red Sox boards you would know that you are in good company. My question is why the Red Sox brass cannot see this and get rid of Seanez and Taverez. Remember, Seanez failed in Boston most miserably in 2002 and Taverez sucked in Cleveland the year he played there. They belong in the weaker NL where pitchers have to bat and where the hitters are not as strong. Foulke needs to get healthy, fully healthy before he steps back on the mound. They keep using him even though they know he is not ready for the big time as long as he is not in playing form.