Boston's Foulke feels strong, ready to reclaim role as closer

[kreinbihl34]

He can add whatever he want he wants... he still has to keep them in the ballpark. I still think at mid-season hes only going to be alright around 15-18 saves. If he has ay less than this trade him and let us atleast go down with Hansen so he can get some MLB experience.

[The Monster is my Mom]

i think he should incorporate a spitball

[ksushi]

Foulke already threw a slider. Maybe he means hes going to rely on it more, but a new pitch isn't going to keep his ERA down if he can't get that separation from change up to fastball with that nasty pin point control.

[seabeachfred]

Riverside, I'll say it again. A healthy and effective Foulke is the real key to our having a great season.

[mtbykr]

They had Foulke on sportsdesk; he said he hasn't felt this good or strong in 4 years. Of course feeling good and returning to form are two seperate things! They also had Bronson on and he said that he would rather start, but if all the pitchers were healthy he expected to be in the bullpen! He also said he just wanted to be here and would do whatever they asked him to help the team! Gotta love his attitude!:thumbsup:

[riverside sluggers]

Riverside, I'll say it again. A healthy and effective Foulke is the real key to our having a great season.

 

i know that..

[seabeachfred]

MTB, you don't ever have to sell Bronson's team attitude to me; that has never been in doubt. You have to love the guy for his loyalty and willingness to do anything to help his team. And I think he can be a real help to us in the bullpen. As I just suggested on the Dirt Dogs website, pitching relief for between 1-4 innings as long or middle man will allow him to hurl his full array of pitches at top speed and not have to pace himself, nibbling and noodling around and getting himself into jams. He can be a big help to us if he accepts that role. As for Foulke, you are right on with your assessment of him, but for me anything resembling good news on the Keith front is music to my ears. It means at least the guy has a real positive attitude going into the middle part of Spring Training. BTW, great chat with you. You seem to really know what's what.

[mtbykr]

MTB, you don't ever have to sell Bronson's team attitude to me; that has never been in doubt. You have to love the guy for his loyalty and willingness to do anything to help his team. And I think he can be a real help to us in the bullpen. As I just suggested on the Dirt Dogs website, pitching relief for between 1-4 innings as long or middle man will allow him to hurl his full array of pitches at top speed and not have to pace himself, nibbling and noodling around and getting himself into jams. He can be a big help to us if he accepts that role. As for Foulke, you are right on with your assessment of him, but for me anything resembling good news on the Keith front is music to my ears. It means at least the guy has a real positive attitude going into the middle part of Spring Training. BTW, great chat with you. You seem to really know what's what.

 

 

Well thank you; it's nice to come here and talk baseball with people who understand the game and are not "sox fans without knowledge of the game" (although everyone has their place and i welcome them too)

 

As far as bronson goes, after hearing that interview it sounds (to me anyway) as though he has already accepted the fact that he will be in the pen, and he is alright with that. He's happy to be here. If someone get's hurt, traded, ect... then he can come out of the pen to start. (keeping him in long relief would help keep him starter ready). Foulke seemed to have a good attitude and seems like he is ready and exited about the season starting.

 

I have said it before and i will say it again: if foulke and our starters stay healty, then i really like our chances:thumbsup:

[seabeachfred]

mtb, I would like your take on this drug testing controversy and Selig's reaction to it. My friend 26-6 believes Selig is doing a good job so far and this new policy will work well. I have grave doubts about anything Selig does. I really feel he wants this to go away and just let things occur as they have before. My take is that we have to crack down on these cheaters and overturn all those phony home run totals that messrs Bonds, Sosa, McGwire and Palmiero rang up with the use of the steroids.

[ksushi]

Riverside, I'll say it again. A healthy and effective Foulke is the real key to our having a great season.

 

Explain to me. I know this is trendy to say, but lets say Foulke can't get the job done, Jon Papelbon can and I think by May he will be closing games for us. With a rotation of Schilling Beckett Wakefield Clement and Arroyo or Wells, you've got quite the rotation and the bullpen is still potent with Timlin, Taveras, Riske, Seanez, and Papelbon. Not to mention youve got two relief prospects in Hansen and Delcarmen who could help out this year as well. Why is Foulke make or break? Granted if Foulke is healthy it will be one hell of a ride, but if he isn't that doesn't by any means ruin the Red Sox chances at having a great season.

[26 to 6]

Explain to me. I know this is trendy to say, but lets say Foulke can't get the job done, Jon Papelbon can and I think by May he will be closing games for us. With a rotation of Schilling Beckett Wakefield Clement and Arroyo or Wells, you've got quite the rotation and the bullpen is still potent with Timlin, Taveras, Riske, Seanez, and Papelbon. Not to mention youve got two relief prospects in Hansen and Delcarmen who could help out this year as well. Why is Foulke make or break? Granted if Foulke is healthy it will be one hell of a ride, but if he isn't that doesn't by any means ruin the Red Sox chances at having a great season.

Whi;s to say that Papelbon does a good job closing. Foulke is a proven, successful closer.

[mtbykr]

Foulke will be our closer for now. They will not (and i think should not) put paps in the closer role. He is bred to be a starter, and the longer we keep him from that the less effective he will become. I think the best thing is to keep paps in the rotation and let shill be a mentor to him. They will let foulke be the closer for now, and if he returns to form---great! If he doesn't then they will trade for someone by the deadline. (we have the people to trade without ripping our farm system)

 

We all want Foulke to return to form, and i believe that they will let him either shine or hang himself. --- but it's his job to lose becuase everyone knows that our best chance is with him closing!

[mtbykr]

mtb, I would like your take on this drug testing controversy and Selig's reaction to it. My friend 26-6 believes Selig is doing a good job so far and this new policy will work well. I have grave doubts about anything Selig does. I really feel he wants this to go away and just let things occur as they have before. My take is that we have to crack down on these cheaters and overturn all those phony home run totals that messrs Bonds, Sosa, McGwire and Palmiero rang up with the use of the steroids.

 

 

 

Well to get a quick answer out: I would say that Selig is doing a fair job and my vote is still out on him. I think he has wanted to do more than he has been allowed, but has not been able to because of the players union. However with that said I don't know if he wants to do something more about it because he wants a clean game or because he is now being forced to with all the stuff coming out the past few years. I think that the real problem was 10 years ago when these guys starting coming to camp looking like the hulk and no one did anything about it them. I also don't want to hear anyone give that lousy excuse of "well steroids were not an illegal substance back then"---that argument is crap. Steroids were illegal is the USA, thus that supersedes the MLB rules. I mean if Bonds freaked out and killed his mistress--that is murder and illegal in the USA, but there's probably no rule specifically about it in the MLB handbook

 

The MLB missed the boat 10 years ago, when they didn't "clean up" the sport before it got to this point. However they were reluctant to because MLB couldn't take another big hit like that right after the strike---so they looked the other way. Now it's gotten too big and they have to deal with it.

 

What it boils down to is I think Selig wants a clean game. He couldn't do anything 10 years ago for fear of another scandal right after the strike. After that they were doing well (homerun chase and all) and things spiraled out of control,,,now he has a huge mess to deal with. If they would have come down hard 10 years ago, guys would have gotten the idea and we wouldn't be here. Ultimately we need to keep the testing up with the product development. I mean they don't even take a blood sample now, which is the only way to detect HGH. (thanks MLBPA)

 

 

As far as the records go, there is no way to "asterisk" them or remove them because we can't go back and test. However Selig needs to do something before bonds goes by Ruth. I don't think he really cares about Aaron’s record, but being a racist he wants to pass Ruth!

 

Bottom line is I think Selig wants a clean game, but hasn't had the "balls" to take care of it yet---and now the MLBPA stands in the way of a lot of it. The new suspensions are great and all, but if they can't even test for the new substances---what's the point. Only the truly stupid will get caught. (*cough* palmero *cough*).

[The Monster is my Mom]

The only problem with saying that "we can trade for someone at the deadline" is that so many teams are looking for relief pitching in July, and less teams are out of the race in July also so the seller's market is very small.

[mtbykr]

The only problem with saying that "we can trade for someone at the deadline" is that so many teams are looking for relief pitching in July, and less teams are out of the race in July also so the seller's market is very small.

 

 

I understand that, but i am just saying what i think our best option is for the season. I think that is our best option--i read so many people wanting to put paps or hansen or bronson in the closer role. Let's give Foulke a chance to find his groove again now that he's "healthy" and his home life has settled down! If he sucks, then we can cross that bridge when we come to it--but let's give him a chance! If it does come down to that, i think we are better served trading for a real "closer", rather than trying to throw someone in that role---we saw how it worked last year!

[mtbykr]

Well to get a quick answer out: I would say that Selig is doing a fair job and my vote is still out on him. I think he has wanted to do more than he has been allowed, but has not been able to because of the players union. However with that said I don't know if he wants to do something more about it because he wants a clean game or because he is now being forced to with all the stuff coming out the past few years. I think that the real problem was 10 years ago when these guys starting coming to camp looking like the hulk and no one did anything about it them. I also don't want to hear anyone give that lousy excuse of "well steroids were not an illegal substance back then"---that argument is crap. Steroids were illegal is the USA, thus that supersedes the MLB rules. I mean if Bonds freaked out and killed his mistress--that is murder and illegal in the USA, but there's probably no rule specifically about it in the MLB handbook

 

The MLB missed the boat 10 years ago, when they didn't "clean up" the sport before it got to this point. However they were reluctant to because MLB couldn't take another big hit like that right after the strike---so they looked the other way. Now it's gotten too big and they have to deal with it.

 

What it boils down to is I think Selig wants a clean game. He couldn't do anything 10 years ago for fear of another scandal right after the strike. After that they were doing well (homerun chase and all) and things spiraled out of control,,,now he has a huge mess to deal with. If they would have come down hard 10 years ago, guys would have gotten the idea and we wouldn't be here. Ultimately we need to keep the testing up with the product development. I mean they don't even take a blood sample now, which is the only way to detect HGH. (thanks MLBPA)

 

 

As far as the records go, there is no way to "asterisk" them or remove them because we can't go back and test. However Selig needs to do something before bonds goes by Ruth. I don't think he really cares about Aaron’s record, but being a racist he wants to pass Ruth!

 

Bottom line is I think Selig wants a clean game, but hasn't had the "balls" to take care of it yet---and now the MLBPA stands in the way of a lot of it. The new suspensions are great and all, but if they can't even test for the new substances---what's the point. Only the truly stupid will get caught. (*cough* palmero *cough*).

 

 

I am moving (at least copying) this part of the thread to the General Baseball forum under "selig and the steroids problem" thread. I just didn't want to get off topic of Foulke---sorry for the confusion!

[The Monster is my Mom]

i agree that we should give Foulke a chance, he has earned that. We have enough good pitchers that even if Foulke sucks and we can't trade for anyone, we will be able to find someone to do a good job, whether that is Hansen, Timlin, Arroyo, whoever.

 

i don't know if I agree with it or not, but in Moneyball, Bill Beane feels that you can make anyone a closer, and that many teams overpay for "closers". I know the commitee thing didn't work for us a couple years ago, but I think the whole "closer" thing is a little overrated.

[mtbykr]

Sorry here is the link to the new thread i created:

 

http://www.talksox.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5597

[seabeachfred]

ksushi, great post and I will be glad to TRY to give you my lowdown as to why Foulke is the key to the season. First of all, as much as I like Papelbon he has no background as a closer, is inexperienced for such an assignment as is Hansen. It is possible they could do the job but it is taking a chance. Taverez? Maybe. With a healthy Foulke you have one of the best closers in the game. Don't get alarmed with the impression that I think all is lost if Keith can't go out there. We could still win but it would be a lot harder under those circumstances. With him, it could be as many as three or four games in the standings. That ought to put us over the top. Again, this is just the way I see it. What do you think?

[seabeachfred]

Monsterman, you said the key point. Know what is was? THAT THE CLOSER BY COMMITTEE THING did not work for us; in fact, it was a disaster. I can count on my fingers the number of games we lost in the opening two months because of this disastrous strategy. As for Beane, he gets a lot out of his teams but I don't recall them going anywhere past their Division the last decade or so. A good closer is worth his weight in gold in my opinion. That is why I give such importance to Foulke coming back strong.

[mtbykr]

Monsterman, you said the key point. Know what is was? THAT THE CLOSER BY COMMITTEE THING did not work for us; in fact, it was a disaster. I can count on my fingers the number of games we lost in the opening two months because of this disastrous strategy. As for Beane, he gets a lot out of his teams but I don't recall them going anywhere past their Division the last decade or so. A good closer is worth his weight in gold in my opinion. That is why I give such importance to Foulke coming back strong.

 

 

Excellant point. I mean look what mariano did for the yankers last year. Without him they wouldn't have even sniffed first place!

[The Monster is my Mom]

Monsterman, you said the key point. Know what is was? THAT THE CLOSER BY COMMITTEE THING did not work for us; in fact, it was a disaster. I can count on my fingers the number of games we lost in the opening two months because of this disastrous strategy. As for Beane, he gets a lot out of his teams but I don't recall them going anywhere past their Division the last decade or so. A good closer is worth his weight in gold in my opinion. That is why I give such importance to Foulke coming back strong.

 

True, but didn't we use Byung Kim as one member of that committee??

[seabeachfred]

mtb, there you have it. You mentioned Mariano. I should have done that; it would have strengthened my case more. Thanks for the added touch. See what I mean, though? Look at it this way---do you or anyone out there think that we could have gone all the way in 2004 without a great season from Foulke. He kept us in the Wild Card race after those three crappy months, and was dynamite in the ALCS, and pretty good in the World Series. I think things would be looking up much brighter for us if Keith is back on the beam.

[seabeachfred]

Yes MM, we did. And the guy was such a sap that we didn't even put him on the post season roster as I recall. I also believe we got him for Shea Hillenbrand, not one of our better trades and certainly not one of our finest hours.

[The Monster is my Mom]

Yes MM, we did. And the guy was such a sap that we didn't even put him on the post season roster as I recall. I also believe we got him for Shea Hillenbrand, not one of our better trades and certainly not one of our finest hours.

 

Right, but my point was that one reason that committee didn't work was that we had such a loser as the chairman. We have much better options this year than we did then.

[seabeachfred]

Gottcha! And you are right on that, thank goodness. Think we couldn't use Shea ourselves?

[mtbykr]

Good article:

 

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=131174

 

 

“I’m confident, with the work I’ve done with live BP and bullpen sessions, that all I need to do is get in there and see some hitters and satisfy some people,” he said. “I don’t need to be satisfied. I have no reservations about being ready Opening Day.”

 

Now let's hope he can return to form! It will make our starters a lot more comfortable if they know they don't have to try for a complete game every time out!

[seabeachfred]

MTB, we all know talk is cheap, but he does sound like he has the confidence in himself to get back in form and help the Red Sox cause. Certainly, as I have mentioned before, a healthy and effective Foulke means a dozen more wins for us this season. I have said he is the key to the season and I have had no reason to change my mind. Great news if what he said turns out to be true, wouldn't you agree?

[ksushi]

I still don't know why everyone think Foulke's health is essential to a good season, because it isn't, but I admit it would be nice to have him healthy and get to keep Hansen in AAA for a year. Thats a luxury. I don't see why he can't bounce back. I wouldn't count him out at all, he is at least a gamer, and on guts alone will at least be half of what he was in 04.

[guapo34]

I still don't know why everyone think Foulke's health is essential to a good season, because it isn't, but I admit it would be nice to have him healthy and get to keep Hansen in AAA for a year. Thats a luxury. I don't see why he can't bounce back. I wouldn't count him out at all, he is at least a gamer, and on guts alone will at least be half of what he was in 04.

 

Essential isn't the right word, because the rest of the bullpen can be pretty strong without him. I agree a lot of people are using it and they shouldn't. But, if he pitches like he did 2 years ago we should have one of the best bullpens in baseball. If he pitches like last year we are probably slightly below average. We still have depth, but there will be a question mark around he the closer will be.