Red Sox Ink Arroyo to 3 year 12 millon dollar deal

[CrespoBlows]

I'd rather have an old Griffey for 2 years than Reed for 4 years. Griffey is an all-time great, with more talent in his old body than Reed would have if he could clone himself.

 

Why? Griffey hasn't played 130 games in almost five years. I think Christopher Reeve might be a better defensive centerfielder than Griffey is.

[a700hitter]

Why? Griffey hasn't played 130 games in almost five years. I think Christopher Reeve might be a better defensive centerfielder than Griffey is.

In the years that Griffey misses 130 games, he still hits more homers than Reed in a full year.

[CrespoBlows]

In the years that Griffey misses 130 games, he still hits more homers than Reed in a full year.

 

I won't even respond to that.

[jsinger121]

the sox don't need his homeruns they need someone who can cover ground because both manny and trot are limited defensively and don't have the best range anymore. griffey is overpaid and on the downhill. sorry i will pass. i will take reed and his 300k salary anyday over griffey because he has high upside and is better defensively.

[a700hitter]

I think Jr. has something left in the tank, and he is one the top talents in the history of the game. At 50% he is better than most players. Reed yet to prove that he belongs at the ML level. He could be out of baseball and forgotten in 3 or 4 years.

[jsinger121]

and griffey could be done next season. griffey was a great talent but he is on the downhill of his career and the money he is getting paid its just not worth it. unless the reds were paying 75% of the deal in a salary dump something they probably won't do then i don't want the red sox to go anywhere near griffey.

[a700hitter]

Have you seen him play in person or just on TV? He's still something to see -- a premier talent. It would be a thrill for Sox fans. Reed is a marginal talent.

[Optimist]

Hey Damon, this is what they call loyalty

 

No, this is called 'getting paid what you're worth.'

 

I don't think Damon (or Boras) would understand that concept either...

[jsinger121]

he was a great talent until the injuries got to him. the red sox don't need griffey to appease sox fans or to put fans in the seats. what they need is a centerfielder who can cover ground and will play with an aggressive style something griffey does not do anymore. it would be a bad idea if the red sox bring griffey just to bring a name in. what are we the yankees.

[a700hitter]

He's better than what we've got now.

[jsinger121]

i would rather have reed. i want no part of griffey's injury history and big contract that is attached to him.

[a700hitter]

Y are you paying him?

[jsinger121]

im not but its not in the red sox best interests to get griffey who is an overpaid injury prone outfielder. the sox can do better than griffey at less the salary.

[a700hitter]

Tell me who, and please don't say Reed.

[schillingouttheks]

David Stern!

 

I would welcome Griffey with open arms.

[jsinger121]

crisp and reed are cheaper and better options than griffey. people we have to take everything into account here with griffey. everyone loves him because he is a name and was great. but he is not great anymore. he is now a DH. he does not have the range to play center anymore. he has trouble staying healthy. He is due 12 million each of the next 2 seasons. those to me are all red flags why i don't want griffey on the red sox.

[schillingouttheks]

Sign him (Griffey) for a year with a second year option. See how Ellsbury does in the minors.

[jsinger121]

hes not a free agent. he has to be had in a trade and he has two years left i believe at 12 mil per season.

[a700hitter]

crisp and reed are cheaper and better options than griffey. people we have to take everything into account here with griffey. everyone loves him because he is a name and was great. but he is not great anymore. he is now a DH. he does not have the range to play center anymore. he has trouble staying healthy. He is due 12 million each of the next 2 seasons. those to me are all red flags why i don't want griffey on the red sox.

They are cheaper salary-wise, but will cost more in prospects. If you want to preserve the future, Griffey is the way to go. We can probably get him for Clement and taking the remaider of Griffey's contract. In a year or two when the Minor League crop is ready Griffey can move to a corner after Ramirez is finally traded.

[jsinger121]

i think it will cost some prospects for griffey. the reds are not just going to give him away. they have a bad farm system to begin with. they need young pitching. they don't want clement and his 9 million dollar a year contract. they would want the likes of either a papelbon or a lester for griffey. teams will ask for them when they call the sox. the sox will not move any of those guys. reeds value has dipped a bit where you might be able to get him for lesser prospects. he has good upside better than darren lewis. a few years ago reed was on par with grady seizmore as a prospect. griffey in my opinion is not an outfielder anymore. he is a DH and we already have a DH.

[example1]

crisp and reed are cheaper and better options than griffey. people we have to take everything into account here with griffey. everyone loves him because he is a name and was great. but he is not great anymore. he is now a DH. he does not have the range to play center anymore. he has trouble staying healthy. He is due 12 million each of the next 2 seasons. those to me are all red flags why i don't want griffey on the red sox.

 

He played in nearly 130 games last year, hit 35 HR, 90+ RBI had a VORP of 59.2 and a .946OPS (one point below Miguel Cabrera, .013 below Vlad). He likely wouldn't cost them much, except for money and Clement (if it is possible for them to get him at all). They have the first and Clement, well, he's available too I believe.

 

Red flags? Certainly. Also certainly red flags trading good young players for a guy like Reed or Crisp, only to put those guys in front of other potential young players or other FA's. If they assume trot is leaving next year, Griffey could move to RF and they could sign a really good CF as soon as one is available.

 

I'm not totally advocating this move; it could be good or it could be bad depending on injuries. But they wouldn't throw away the club for Griffey, they could still push hard for Jeremy Reed as a safety option, and it would allow them to move one of their myriad pitchers.

[jsinger121]

griffey can hardly play centerfield and you think he could play right field in fenway park. he has limited range now and putting him in right at fenway if trot left would be a disaster.

[a700hitter]

Give it up. Reed is a no one, and Griffey is a great of the game that had a pretty good year last year-- a year that Reed could only dream about. In a flat out foot race, Junior is probably still faster than Reed. Good teams go with talent. Also rans pin their hopes on potential.

[jsinger121]

i won't give it up because i am not high on griffey anymore. i don't think he has the speed or the range to play in the outfield anymore and with the red sox outfield already below average having him there would not be a good thing especially for our pitching staff. the red sox are not a championship caliber club right now and getting griffey would not make them one. reed can cover alot more ground than griffey right now. for griffey to continue in his career it would be best for him to be a DH and nothing else. griffey was a great talent but he is aging and injury prone and for 12 million a year i would go with potential instead. The red sox need to play for the future. they can't be tied up to bad contracts anymore and griffey is one of them.

[jsinger121]

I want someone in center who can cover ground. the red sox have enough offense right now. with the red sox outfield defense already shaky they need someone who can get to balls and griffey just can't do that anymore.

 

2005 Zone Rating

 

.907 for Reed

.805 for Griffey

 

I'm afraid Griffey has lost a step and in fenway park you need to cover alot of ground especially with both manny and nixon playing the outfield. and that zone rating for griffey is not going to get better as he gets older. its just going to get worse like bernie williams worse.

[a700hitter]

i won't give it up because i am not high on griffey anymore. i don't think he has the speed or the range to play in the outfield anymore and with the red sox outfield already below average having him there would not be a good thing especially for our pitching staff. the red sox are not a championship caliber club right now and getting griffey would not make them one. reed can cover alot more ground than griffey right now. for griffey to continue in his career it would be best for him to be a DH and nothing else. griffey was a great talent but he is aging and injury prone and for 12 million a year i would go with potential instead. The red sox need to play for the future. they can't be tied up to bad contracts anymore and griffey is one of them.

You are entitled to your opinion, and maybe you are right, but the most distressing part of your post is the following statement: "the red sox are not a championship caliber club right now." With the rebuilt pitching, they would have been a championship caliber team if they had kept Damon. Letting him go was a major mistake, because championship caliber teams don't come along that often. The future holds no guarantees no matter how stocked you are with prospects. I am very upset that the FO let this opportunity go.

[jsinger121]

i am not upset that the red sox didn't give damon the 52 million because frankly he is not a 13 million dollar player. he went for the money. the red sox would never have matched that. he was a great player here and its very possible that we got the 4 best years of damons career. im not saying he is done but he is not a 13 million dollar player. he is more of a 10-11 million dollar player at best. alot of things have to go right for the red sox to be a championship team. lowell needs to return to form, nixon needs to stay healthy, they need to have someone to cover ground in center, they need the bullpen to be better than last year, they need beckett and schilling to stay healthy for the year. those are alot of ifs and its very possible alot of those ifs will not turn out good for the sox.

[ORS]

Griffey has lost a step in the field, and Reed is a much better defensive option. Rate has Reed at right about league average (2005 Rate=99, 100 is average), while it has Griffey as a liability (2005 Rate=87, 12 runs per 100 games worse). Prorated over 130 games, Griffey is about 16 runs worse than Reed. However, Griffey makes up for that with his bat, and then some. He beat Reed in RARP by 40 runs (48.6 to 8.5).

 

I don't think a Bernie comparison is warranted because Williams has never been the caliber hitter that Griffey is. When some of Bernie's talent declines in the field, then he truly becomes a liability because his offense isn't enough to carry his defense. That is obviously not so with Griffey.

 

Regarding the future, Griffey actually does make more sense as long as he doesn't cost any of the top prospects. Reed is someone on the way up, so Seattle is justified in asking for premiere talent in return. Griffey is on his way down, and Cincy is looking to get out from under his contract. Clement + $$ is fair. I don't know if that gets the deal done, but I'd think Cincy would have to consider it long and hard. A two year rental of a no-glove, all-stick CF would give the farm hands enough time to finish their development.

 

Is it a risk? Absolutely. But, as long as it only costs money and not some of the kids, then the reward end of the deal could be huge. It will give the Sox the worse defensive OF in the bigs, which isn't good with a staff of flyball pitchers, but they won't struggle scoring runs. And, that has worked in the past.

[a700hitter]

i am not upset that the red sox didn't give damon the 52 million because frankly he is not a 13 million dollar player. he went for the money. the red sox would never have matched that. he was a great player here and its very possible that we got the 4 best years of damons career. im not saying he is done but he is not a 13 million dollar player. he is more of a 10-11 million dollar player at best. alot of things have to go right for the red sox to be a championship team. lowell needs to return to form, nixon needs to stay healthy, they need to have someone to cover ground in center, they need the bullpen to be better than last year, they need beckett and schilling to stay healthy for the year. those are alot of ifs and its very possible alot of those ifs will not turn out good for the sox.

You are not upset because you have youth on your side. After waiting 38 years, I am really irritated that they didn't play out their hand with Pedro and Damon. The Pedro situation really bothers me, because I think there is a very strong argument that he is the best pitcher to toe the rubber in ML History. I think the core of the 2004 team could have won 1 or 2 more championships.

[jsinger121]

I may be younger than you but I also have a brain. The core of the 2004 was constructed with alot of guys in their 30's with pedro, damon, mueller, millar, manny, varitek, schilling, timlin, embree, and others. It was not a team on the upswing like the Yankees were after they won a title in 1996. What the Yankees had was youth on their side with young players like Jeter, Bernie, Rivera, Pettite, and Posada once he came up in 1996. That was young core they had that could contend for alot of years and is still contending today minus some players. The Red Sox on the other hand were constructed for a 3 year period in which to win a title. They won a title. You should be thankful you saw one. There was no way they could keep the 2004 team together without overspending which would have hurt the team in the longrun. Had they signed everyone they would have gotten old before your eyes. I will always love the 2004 team but I knew their window to win a title was short with all the free agents they were going to have. Pedro was a great pitcher but is he worth the amount of years and money he received from the mets. same thing with damon. the red sox are not only thinking about tomorrow they are thinking 3-5 years down the road and they did not want to be saddled with contracts that could potentially look bad in the coming years. The Red Sox will be setup to have longterm success by not overpaying for guys in their mid 30's. they don't want to be tied up to these players for big money and for big years so they take the draft picks and restock the farm system. i have the faith that we will reep the benefits of our farm system soon because we have had very solid drafts the past 3 seasons which will go a long way to building our team for the future.