Ideas for sox Rotation in 06

[Beckett95]

I like:

 

1. Schilling

2. Wakefield

3. Beckett

4. Millwood

5. Papelbon

 

i think if beckett, millwood and schilling can stay healthy, that rotation ranks right up there with the white sox.

 

If one guy goes down, i think lester can come up and be like the papelbon of last year.

 

papelbon would be the best #5 starter in the league. Hes a future all-star who has great stuff and a good mentor in Schill.

 

good interview with papelbon on MLB.com

 

This holiday season will be unlike any other for Jonathan Papelbon. The Red Sox right-hander, who turned 25 on Nov. 23, is spending his first winter since making a huge impression and his Major League debut this past season in Boston.

 

He is also spending his first Christmas as a married man, tying the knot with his lovely bride Ashley on Nov. 12. The Sox sensation took some time out of his busy schedule to explain how life has changed while sharing his feelings on the holidays with MLB.com.

 

 

MLB.com: What are your best memories of Christmas growing up?

 

Papelbon: Definitely spending time with my family. We did a lot of things outdoors and it was always a chance for people in the family to exchange stories.

 

MLB.com: What is your favorite thing about Christmas now?

 

Papelbon: I actually like to go hunting because that's when the season is open in Florida. I still like spending time with family now because it's the time of year to appreciate everyone who is close to you. And this year, it means a little more because of so much that has gone on in my life. It's really special to be able to sit back at Christmas time and share that with family.

 

MLB.com: What is the best present you received when you were a kid?

 

Papelbon: One of the best presents I ever got was a bike, a blue [road] bike. I would take it out and be pretty rough with it, but it was a blast. I'd go all different places with it.

 

MLB.com: Now that you're married, how will your Christmas change?

 

Papelbon: Well, we'll definitely be splitting time between my family and hers. It'll be nice, too, because there are a lot of people I don't get a chance to see and this will be the time to do it before I get ready for Spring Training.

 

MLB.com: How is this Christmas more special?

 

Papelbon: I got married Nov. 12, had a very nice honeymoon, went to Disney World and had plenty of time to relax. Now, when you do things around the holidays, you have someone to share them with. And having made my Major League debut, this time of year really makes me reflect on all the great things that have happened to me and all the blessings I've had.

 

MLB.com: How is your holiday shopping going?

 

Papelbon: Actually, I'm in pretty good shape. Ashley has been really good helping me with shopping and we've pretty much taken care of everyone on both sides of the family.

 

MLB.com: Do you have any special events planned for the holidays?

 

Papelbon:Just relaxing and watching a lot of football. Being down here in Jacksonville, I went to the Jaguars-Colts game and had a great time in the [All-Tel Stadium] Sky Box. I'll watch a lot of the [college] bowl games and just relax.

 

MLB.com: Do you make New Year's resolutions?

 

Papelbon: I'm not really into those. I just do my thing and try to get ready for the season.

[ACL BoSox]

All I want for Christmas is a quality starter and a good SS...

[example1]

I don't think Papelbon will be starting to begin the season next year. I think he would do very well there, but I bet they'll still have clement and will keep Paps in the pen.

 

I read the same discussion on SoSH and people are pretty convinced that's what's going to happen. He only has two really effective pitches right now (but his splitter will be nasty in time).

 

I hope he starts eventually, but I don't see it right away. Even in his starts last year he got tired by the end. He could be just the beast the sox need out of the pen. He's got a great attitude wherever he's used.

[jsinger121]

he can develop those pitches in the winter as well as spring training. if they end up moving clement/arroyo and wells then papelbon will be in the rotation. its time to get some much needed youth in that starting rotation other than becket, and papelbon is the guy who is ready. we need to stop babying him. if he develops another pitch over this winter and into spring training then his talent is wasted in the bullpen. with his toughness and guts as well as his talent he has the chance to win 15 games as a rookie. that is valuable. the red sox have already rebuilt the bullpen with mota, seanez, along with holdovers in timlin and foulke to go along with the young guys in dinardo, hansen, and delcarmen should one of them be on this team next season.

[a700hitter]

I think they should let Papelbon work out of the pen at the start of the season. This should take some pressure off of him. He might press too much if he is thrown right into the rotation. I've read or heard that Wallace wants him to work in the pen first. You don't want a kid to burn himself out operating on an adrenaline rush.

[example1]

Both takes are solid. Its nice to have a Papelbon, aint it fellas?

 

I don't think it will hurt in either case. I don't get the impression that he will feel any pressure. He sure didn't look like he felt pressure last year. He will be good whatever their decision is.

 

Ultimately, I want him to start. If the sox staff doesn't think he's ready to start, then I trust their instincts more than mine.

 

Merry Christmas guys!

[jsinger121]

he had his adrenaline rush last season pitching in big games down the stretch as well as playoff games. he was the red sox best pitcher on the staff down the stretch and in the playoffs. hes 25 yrs old already. hes not baby anymore. its time to take the diapers off papelbon and let him start. without papelbon in the bullpen in late august and in september the red sox would never have made the playoffs.

[a700hitter]

he had his adrenaline rush last season pitching in big games down the stretch as well as playoff games. he was the red sox best pitcher on the staff down the stretch and in the playoffs. hes 25 yrs old already. hes not baby anymore. its time to take the diapers off papelbon and let him start. without papelbon in the bullpen in late august and in september the red sox would never have made the playoffs.

Even though he is 25, he doesn't have a lot of innings under his belt. They need to build him up a little before he can started tossing 180-200 innings in a year. If they let him go, I have no doubt he'd put up 180-200 innings, but history has shown when a team steps up a pitchers innings that fast they can really damage him. I'd like to see him step into the rotation around June and let him get about 140-150 innings maximum this year. He's got to much potential to run him into the ground in one year.

[riverside sluggers]

example1: I hope he starts eventually, but I don't see it right away. Even in his starts last year he got tired by the end.

 

It wasnt that he got tired, Tito and the pitching coaches had him on a limited pitch count for each game, keeping him on an innings watch for the season.

[DrewDaGreat]

Schilling

Clemens

Millwood

Beckett

Papelbon

 

 

[jimmycarter05]

Schilling

Wake

Beckett

Millwood

Chris Young-From the Pads for Wells

[example1]

It wasnt that he got tired, Tito and the pitching coaches had him on a limited pitch count for each game, keeping him on an innings watch for the season.

 

so the pitch counts made him start giving up more hits and throwing walks in the 5th and 6th innings? I watched the games and i understand pitch counts. He was getting tired.

[ksushi]

Do you guys who put wake in the number two actually think he is more dependable than beckett?

 

Mine( in order of effectivness):

Beckett

Schill

Millwood

Papelbon

Wakefield

 

wakefield will have a good season, I think him and papelbon will achieve around the same results while Millwood Beckett and Schilling will keep ERA's under four and high in the wins column. That is realistically how I think they will pitch. Clemens will retire.

[riverside sluggers]

so the pitch counts made him start giving up more hits and throwing walks in the 5th and 6th innings?

 

um where did i say that? well even before the games had started, tito and the coaches had the pitch count set on him. Even if Papelbon had a no hitter after finishing up the 6th but was at around 95 pitches, they still wouldve pulled him.

 

Even if he was getting tired, he had already pitched 100+ innings spanning in Portland/Pawtucket and proved himself in the bigs. In 2006 he will be another year matured and all rested up and raring to go for what comes to him. I'll be look forwrad to him in the rotation.

[schillingouttheks]

Chris Young-From the Pads for Wells

You've said this time and time again, and I wonder the same thing time and time again..

 

On what planet will the Padres trade Chris Young for Boomer straight up?

[a700hitter]

Even if he was getting tired, he had already pitched 100+ innings spanning in Portland/Pawtucket and proved himself in the bigs. In 2006 he will be another year matured and all rested up and raring to go for what comes to him. I'll be look forwrad to him in the rotation.

I wouldn't push the kid beyond 140 innings this year. Let him build up to 180-200 in another year.

[jimmycarter05]

You've said this time and time again, and I wonder the same thing time and time again..

 

On what planet will the Padres trade Chris Young for Boomer straight up?

 

 

We can add a second rate prospect or something. Another idea is if you want to get really creative is a major trade;

 

Pads Gets;

 

David Wells

Bronson Arroyo

Matt Clement

Abe Abverlez

 

Boston Gets;

 

Khalil Greene

Chris Young

Scott Linebrink

[ksushi]

You're thinking too big here. First off, if the sox do that trade, how do they acquire a center fielder? How about this, not saying this will happen, just doing some tweaking...

 

Pads get: David Wells, Van Buren

Boston: Linebrink

 

then do a little number with the Mariners something like this:

 

Clement, Shoppach and Abe Alvarez to SEA and Reed and Everyday Eddie or one of their many excellent japanese relievers, all of whom I have man crushes on, to boston.

[ORS]

I wouldn't push the kid beyond 140 innings this year. Let him build up to 180-200 in another year.

I'd go as high as 170 or so this year. He pitched 148.2 between AA, AAA, MLB last year and 129.2 the year before that. He's a horse, so don't take a step back in the development of his stamina.

[a700hitter]

I'd go as high as 170 or so this year. He pitched 148.2 between AA, AAA, MLB last year and 129.2 the year before that. He's a horse, so don't take a step back in the development of his stamina.

140 innings at the ML level is a little different. Hitters at the ML level are more selective. His pitch count in 140 ML innings will be equate to several more innings at the AA level.

[jsinger121]

one red seat i agree that he is a horse that he deserves to be in the starting rotation. he basically saved the red sox last season. he has ace written all over him. you don't put future aces in the bullpen. he got his taste of the bigs last year in a few spot starts and the remainder of the year in the pen. he was one of the man reasons why the red sox even made the playoffs last year. a talent such as him is too good to waste in the bullpen.

[a700hitter]

one red seat i agree that he is a horse that he deserves to be in the starting rotation. he basically saved the red sox last season. he has ace written all over him. you don't put future aces in the bullpen. he got his taste of the bigs last year in a few spot starts and the remainder of the year in the pen. he was one of the man reasons why the red sox even made the playoffs last year. a talent such as him is too good to waste in the bullpen.

He won't be there for long. Someone in the rotation will start slow or come up lame and he'll be in the rotation, but I dont see him putting up alot of innings before June. If they work this kid to 170+ innings in a penant race, they could permanently damage him. It's too big a risk and he's too valuable to screw him up. Why don't we each predict his innings and see what happens. I am in at 140.

[jsinger121]

i want 170-180 innings. Gustavo Chacin threw 203 innings as a rookie for the blue jays and he is also 25 yrs old. papelbon has already gotten a taste of the big leagues. i want to build up his arm strength in the starting rotation. there is no reason to even start him in the bullpen. the red sox have remade there bullpen. he served a purpose last season because we didn't have a bullpen and he help stabalized it in late august and september. he got the experience of what it was like to pitch in the majors. he has a work ethic similar to roger clemens. he is everything you want from a pitcher. thats why he needs to be in the rotation.

[a700hitter]

pick one jsinger 170 or 180.

[riverside sluggers]

name a starting pitcher off the top of your head around the age of 25 who after working 170+ innings in a season was "permanently damaged"

[ORS]

I'm not going to predict an inning count number for Papelbon because I don't know how they plan to use him yet. My best guess is that he starts off in the BP. This isn't going to be due to stamina concerns as much as it is going to be due to secondary and tertiary pitches. Papelbon pretty much lived off of his FB last year, and all of his other pitches, while showing promise when good, were very inconsistent last year.

[ksushi]

You guys are forgetting one key thing with papelbon, this may have been mentioned but i doubt it, Papelbon is not your average rookie starter. In his entire career up until the last two years, he has been a reliever. He has never pitched near 200 innings before, so yes, throwing him into the fire could damage him. You don't want to dead arm the kid, and you certainly don't want to end up having him getting TJ surgery. I think he will be in the rotation, but maybe not to start out. Lester on the other hand is a guy who if he is good in spring training, don't be surprised if he is in the bullpen this year and moves to the rotation permanently in case of injury. He is a horse.

[a700hitter]

name a starting pitcher off the top of your head around the age of 25 who after working 170+ innings in a season was "permanently damaged"

It's a long list, and not about to go researching names about an issue that ML pitching coaches have acknowledged. I'm not even sure 170+ inning is the magic #. For some guys it may be 150. It depends on their development. Roy Halladay had a significant drop off in performance after throwing 200+ innnings. He had shoulder problems and was basically innefective. Dontrelle Willis experience a tired arm and ineffectiveness in his second year after throwing around 150 innings in his first year. Chris Carpenter's ERA ballooned to over 6 after throwing around 150 innings. The theory about young pitchers and innings is out there in the ML mainstream. You do the research and disprove it. Are there any predictions as to Papelbon's innings this year? I am going with 140.

[a700hitter]

. Lester on the other hand is a guy who if he is good in spring training, don't be surprised if he is in the bullpen this year and moves to the rotation permanently in case of injury. He is a horse.

I'd be very surprised if he made the opening day bullpen.

[yagmaster]

I'd be very surprised if you were sober when you posted that.