Francona tougher than we thought?

[yeszir]

There's a very interesting article from the globe that sheds some light on our soft-hearted (or so we thought) manager. The link is http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/01/02/francona_kept_sox_snags_sewn_up/

 

Here are some interesting bits:

The moment Francona first extended his hand in spring training to Manny Ramirez, the slugger verbally lashed out at the new manager, then briefly boycotted the first team meeting. Ramirez apparently needed to vent about the front office placing him on irrevocable waivers and switching managers over the winter.

 

Angered by Pedro Martinez breaking protocol and bolting from Camden Yards before the game ended after he pitched in a 7-2 loss on Opening Day in Baltimore, Francona privately engaged in a long, heated argument with Martinez the next day. But the manager never publicly criticized his star pitcher, instead blaming himself

(that last part is the Francona we thought we knew coming through)

 

Francona kept secrets, protected reputations, and prevented isolated personnel problems from mushrooming into destructive media conflagrations. By biting his tongue and stifling his ego, he fostered team harmony and played a crucial role in helping the Sox secure their first world championship in 86 years, even as he served as a season-long lightning rod for public criticism.

 

"He managed, in the most basic sense of the word, people and personalities and the clubhouse dynamic," said team president and CEO Larry Lucchino. "You don't get the positive clubhouse chemistry we had without the manager playing a significant role in that."

 

"He was a major leaguer in recent times for many years," Henry said, referring to Francona's 10 seasons playing for the Expos, Cubs, Reds, Guardians, and Brewers. "He understands what these players go through and what they need."

 

So I guess he isn't so weak after all. Pretty cool article if you ask me.

[CalvnHobs6]

I read that in the Globe this morning. Very cool stuff. It's always nice when the media DOESN'T get ahold of certain things.

[Gertie]

That was a pretty cool article. I wonder who leaked all that info to Hohler?

[BoSox Rule]

Francona's the man.

[sarasoxfan]

I dont think I am quite ready to call Francona the man, but it was interesting to see some of the s*** that goes on behind the scenes. I would imagaine there were probably a million incidents that happened, howqever and I dont think it is too amazing that what happens in the locker stays in the locker room...I mean I give the points to standing up to some of the *******s but there isnt a manager in the big leagues that runs to the media with every thing that happens behind closed doors.

 

I am reminded again fo what a dick pedro was and I hope the Mets have fun trying to baby sit that infant

[mosox]

It is surprising to see all that Tito did to actually "manage" the players. On the field however, he did make some strange moves that led to alot of discussion here during the season. Somehow Tito grew into the job and by October was making all the right moves.

[elsrbueno]

It is surprising to see all that Tito did to actually "manage" the players. On the field however, he did make some strange moves that led to alot of discussion here during the season. Somehow Tito grew into the job and by October was making all the right moves.

 

He didn't necessarily make ALL the right moves, they just didn't burn him. Having Jason Varitek catch Tim Wakefield in extra innings (ALCS game 5 if I remember right) was a poor choice (and Varitek struggled, with 3 passed balls), but they got through that inning unharmed.

 

Pedro Martinez pitching in game 7 of the ALCS-- Bad move.

 

These are just 2 examples. Francona did manage this team well, no doubt about it. In the end, the Red Sox won the World Series, so Francona didn't make enough wrong decisions... but the man wasn't exactly perfect in the playoffs.

[stevece80]

Pitching Pedro in game 7 really burned him out for game 3 in St. Louis. Please, I don't buy the "getting the crowd into the game" argument, either. If professional athletes don't have enough motivation trailing in a do or die game, in the League Championship series, then I don't have any clue what sort of motivation they'd need. The Yankees didn't have their home crowd spurring them on in that 19-8 walloping in game 3, so I'm wondering if it comes down to talent? I'd say so. Someone needed to be burned in that inning to keep at least someone fresh for game 1 of the World Series, considering the game was sealed at that point. Francona would have been butchered by the second guessers just as much if he had sent Mendoza out there. Those same second guessers would have bitched if Mirabelli had faced a righty reliever later in the tie game had Varitek been pulled. Face it, for all the blame you're placing, none of these qualms are FAR from the clear-cut choice. If Varitek hits like Pat Borders, then you obviously make the move without question.

 

Even when he helps bring the franchise it's first title in 86 years, he still can't win. In retrospect, keeping Grady Little may have been the right choice, if not only to have some justification to the bitching that goes on in regards to every manager that has ever been at the helm in Boston. The first one in who knows how long that shows a bit of a clue, gets thrown under the bus at the first opportunity because of rampant microanalyzation. There will be no "wrong" moves in the age of human error. Once the game is played on paper, with pre-scripted plays will it be alright to judge someone based on borderline decisions. Judge a manager on his team's results, judge him on the MAJOR decisions, but please don't judge anyone on "fork in the road" moves.

[elsrbueno]

Pitching Pedro in game 7 really burned him out for game 3 in St. Louis. Please, I don't buy the "getting the crowd into the game" argument, either. If professional athletes don't have enough motivation trailing in a do or die game, in the League Championship series, then I don't have any clue what sort of motivation they'd need. The Yankees didn't have their home crowd spurring them on in that 19-8 walloping in game 3, so I'm wondering if it comes down to talent? I'd say so. Someone needed to be burned in that inning to keep at least someone fresh for game 1 of the World Series, considering the game was sealed at that point. Francona would have been butchered by the second guessers just as much if he had sent Mendoza out there. Those same second guessers would have bitched if Mirabelli had faced a righty reliever later in the tie game had Varitek been pulled. Face it, for all the blame you're placing, none of these qualms are FAR from the clear-cut choice. If Varitek hits like Pat Borders, then you obviously make the move without question.

 

Even when he helps bring the franchise it's first title in 86 years, he still can't win. In retrospect, keeping Grady Little may have been the right choice, if not only to have some justification to the bitching that goes on in regards to every manager that has ever been at the helm in Boston. The first one in who knows how long that shows a bit of a clue, gets thrown under the bus at the first opportunity because of rampant microanalyzation. There will be no "wrong" moves in the age of human error. Once the game is played on paper, with pre-scripted plays will it be alright to judge someone based on borderline decisions. Judge a manager on his team's results, judge him on the MAJOR decisions, but please don't judge anyone on "fork in the road" moves.

 

All I said was that he didn't make ALL the right decisions. Obviously you could go down the line and critisize every move he made, but that wasn't my point. My point is that the moves he made WORKED OUT in the end, which makes him a success, but that doesn't mean that he's always right.

[yeszir]

In the end, Francona was good enough. This sums it up perfectly:

Judge a manager on his team's results, judge him on the MAJOR decisions, but please don't judge anyone on "fork in the road" moves.

 

Francona, overall, was a good manager. He led the team to a championship. I made this thread not to judge his baseball managerial capabilities, but to comment on his handling of players. For the longest time (indeed, before he even came to Boston) he has had the reputation of being a softee. The article kind of tones that soft Francona image down. He isn't maybe the 100% nice guy we thought, even though he may show it on the outside, which is good and necessary.

 

As for judging managers on individual decisions, I agree that you can't. You have to take the whole season in context, and overall Francona earns an A (and a ring ). Grady had the misfortune of making one of the worst possible managerial moves in history, which was enough to ruin him in Boston. Barring catastrophe, it should take more than a few blunders such as Francona made this past season to warrant extreme criticism.

 

For some reason I wrote this post in a very, very bizarre style.. Oh well. :dunno:

[stevece80]

All I said was that he didn't make ALL the right decisions. Obviously you could go down the line and critisize every move he made, but that wasn't my point. My point is that the moves he made WORKED OUT in the end, which makes him a success, but that doesn't mean that he's always right.

 

What manager is always right, though?

[elsrbueno]

What manager is always right, though?

 

Absolutely none.

 

I was commenting on a post above that said he made ALL the right decisions in October.