Clement Signs With Red Sox

[Soxfan1]

3 years 25 mill

 

Weren't the angels offering more?

[Yankeesin05]

All you guys are Biased. If Pavano was on the Red Sox, you all know what you would be saying, " Pavano is so awsome, best telent in baseball, yet to go into his prime........etc". If the Yankees sighned Clement, you would be saying that he is an inconsistant, "wild-thing" that's velocity has gone down and sinker hasn't had bite on it the last 3 starts.

 

 

Honestly guys, if you were to choose Pavano or Clement, who would you choose........once again, HONESTLY.

[BoSox Rule]

Me and Zen already gave reasons.

[YANKEESRULE]

They would say Pavano. I read hundreds of posts on here about hoping the Sox get Pavano. Clement only won like 9 games and Pavano won 15 or 16. Its pretty obvious who is better. When we RJ there gonna say he's washed up. In my humble NON-BIased opnion RJ can pitch circles around Schilling. RJ will be a hall of famer, not Schilling.

[Gertie]

I would rather the Sox had signed Pavano, because he's younger and seems to be more sure. However, neither of them have a long track record of success. Pavano's had one great season, and Clement has had three or so decent seasons. I like the Clement signing, though, because I think he will be an effective pitcher who is coming into his own finally and realizing his talent.

[Zenny]

Originally posted by YANKEESRULE@Dec 18 2004, 05:00 PM

They would say Pavano. I read hundreds of posts on here about hoping the Sox get Pavano. Clement only won like 9 games and Pavano won 15 or 16. Its pretty obvious who is better. When we RJ there gonna say he's washed up. In my humble NON-BIased opnion RJ can pitch circles around Schilling. RJ will be a hall of famer, not Schilling.

No, I would not say Pavano. If you were a member of NetSports, you would have seen that I have liked Clement over Pavano as a Red Sox since the trading deadline when we were rumored to get Clement for Nomar.

 

You know why Clement won 9 games and Pavano won 18 games? Run support. You're going to come back with "bt teh cubz hev uh bttr offns tehn de mrlinz", but run support varies from pitcher to pitcher. Ben Sheets was the third best pitcher in baseball this season and went 12-14. Anyone who judges a pitcher on wins is an idiot and that goes for much of the mainstream media as well. ERA, WHIP and K/9 is where it's at.

[Yankeesin05]

Pavano had a better ERA also! he had .7 points lower, Pavano didnt have much run support either. You cant choose a Pitcher who doesnt know where the hell he is to a Pitcher opening the door to his prime. Also, i'll the whole Strike Out thing where Clement had more, but who needs a Strike Out Pitcher when we have an Ace who can whiff 290 men a year....

[Yankeesin05]

i'll give you the whole Strike Out thing where Clement had more, but who needs a Strike Out Pitcher when we have an Ace who can whiff 290 men a year.... ***

[Gertie]

you could have just edited your first post...

[Yankeesin05]

w/e, if i make i mistake, i'll Edit it next time

[BoSox Rule]

Originally posted by YANKEESRULE@Dec 18 2004, 04:00 PM

They would say Pavano. I read hundreds of posts on here about hoping the Sox get Pavano. Clement only won like 9 games and Pavano won 15 or 16. Its pretty obvious who is better. When we RJ there gonna say he's washed up. In my humble NON-BIased opnion RJ can pitch circles around Schilling. RJ will be a hall of famer, not Schilling.

They're both Hall of Famers you ********. And you don't even have Randy!

[BoSox Rule]

Pavano had a 17 point in ERA+, but that is close to a wash because Pavano is going to a lefthanded batter's paradise.

[YANKEESRULE]

No Schilling is not a Hall of Famer. Its alreday been debated. He doesn't have Hall of Fame numbers. That could change of course, but as of right now he is not. You don't get nominated by your name, its what your history is. Remeber Schilling wasn't very good when he was younger. Not like Johnson or Clemens.

[BoSox Rule]

I figure Curt Schilling will pitch 4 more years. That will bring him to age 41.

 

If he wins __ games this year he will have

16: 200

17: 201

18: 202

19: 203

20: 204

21: 205

 

With the Red Sox offense, he should able to win 16 games every year for the next four years, and that would give him 248 wins. If he only pitches 3 seasons he should reach 232.

 

His 131 ERA+ right now ties him with Sandy Koufax. If he gets 255 K's this year, with I doubt, he will have 3000. He should reach 3000 K's by April 2006. He has a 1.11 WHIP. In case you don't know, that is better than Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, and Greg Maddux. Of the four locks, only Pedro has a better WHIP than Schilling. Pedro's 1.03 is the third best of any pitcher ever. He has the 8th best K/9 rate of all-time, and only

 

Schilling will finish with an ERA of about 3.30, which amazing for this era.

 

He also has an unbelievable postseason track record. He is 7-2 with a 2.22 ERA in 109.3 innings, 6.51 H/9, 4.73 K/BB, and 8.56 K/9. He has a 1.42 ERA in the DS, 2.83 in the LCS, and 2.32 in the WS.

 

He is quite easily the 5th best pitcher that is active behind the four HOF locks: Pedro Martinez, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, and Greg Maddux.

[Yanksin2010]

Originally posted by BoSox Rule+Dec 18 2004, 10:25 AM-->

QUOTE (BoSox Rule @ Dec 18 2004, 10:25 AM)

[BoSox Rule]

Originally posted by Yanksin2010+Dec 18 2004, 07:36 PM-->

QUOTE (Yanksin2010 @ Dec 18 2004, 07:36 PM)

Originally posted by BoSox Rule@Dec 18 2004, 10:25 AM

[Yanksin2010]

Originally posted by BoSox Rule+Dec 18 2004, 07:37 PM-->

QUOTE (BoSox Rule @ Dec 18 2004, 07:37 PM)

Originally posted by Yanksin2010@Dec 18 2004, 07:36 PM Originally posted by BoSox Rule@Dec 18 2004, 10:25 AM

[Yankeesin05]

How is 18-8 3.00 ERA mediocre? 9-13 3.68 ERA is

[Yanksin2010]

Negatives for pavano:

 

- only one good year

- bad k/9 innings ratio

- not many ground balls

 

Negatives for clement:

 

-moving to a major hitting park

- very erratic

- poor post season performance

 

IMO, they are very even, both ok, but not great.

[Yankeesin05]

Note. I am not comparing Pavano to Koufax

 

Koufax was bad his first 5 seasons with the Dodgers, then he broke out(Mainly due to the changing in Pitching coaches)

 

This was Pavano's break out year, there is only more to come and expand to it. What makes you think that he cant do it again? Mel Stottlemyre was a ground ball specialist in his day, he can teach Pavano.

 

With the Yankees offense, Pavano will have no problem, the only minor problem would be him adjusting to the Bronx, where winning is expected, if he makes a good transition, he will do great.

[BoSox Rule]

Zenny already document that a move to Fenway won't hurt Clement as much as a move to Yankee Stadium will hurt Pavano. According to Zenny, Fenway is an easier RHP park than Wrigley, and Yankee Stadium is a harder RHP park and Pro Player.

[Yanksin2010]

Originally posted by BoSox Rule@Dec 18 2004, 08:00 PM

Zenny already document that a move to Fenway won't hurt Clement as much as a move to Yankee Stadium will hurt Pavano. According to Zenny, Fenway is an easier RHP park than Wrigley, and Yankee Stadium is a harder RHP park and Pro Player.

Well, Zenny needs to learn Yankee stadium and Fenway demensions.

[Yanksin2010]

Originally posted by Yankeesin05@Dec 18 2004, 07:49 PM

How is 18-8 3.00 ERA mediocre? 9-13 3.68 ERA is

He only did that one season. Just don't get your hopes up.

[BoSox Rule]

I'll break it down for you like this. YS is a lefthanded hitter's paradside. Fenway is death to lefties. Unless you can spray the ball to the other side, like Ortiz.

 

It's the exact opposite for both parks when it comes to LHP.

 

And I don't think you have any right to question Zenny.

[Chitalian Stallion]

I still like this signing, no matter what you yankee fans say. With the run support he will do just fine (15-ish wins). Plus, he has a nasty slider.

[Yankeesin05]

Fenway might still hurt Clement. He was bad down the stretch and he was leaving fat sinkers over the plate and RH hitters were tee-ing off on him. Wrigley and Fenway both have shallow LF Walls and it would hurt him just as much as it did in Chicago.

 

As for Pavano, Yankee Stadium might hurt Pavano, it might not. If he could get his slider down and in, he would do fine. Dont get me wrong, LH hitters hit like .340 off of him last year. But if he can do what he did to Lefty's, what he did to Righty's, (i think they hit like .250 off him or something) he will do JUST FINE.

[Yanksin2010]

Originally posted by BoSox Rule@Dec 18 2004, 08:06 PM

I'll break it down for you like this. YS is a lefthanded hitter's paradside. Fenway is death to lefties. Unless you can spray the ball to the other side, like Ortiz.

 

It's the exact opposite for both parks when it comes to LHP.

 

And I don't think you have any right to question Zenny.

Geeze, is Zenny your mother? If you hit right down at fenway, you only have to hit it 300 feet. Fenway is a huge hitters park. Most hitters are right handed anyway.

[Yanksin2010]

Originally posted by Chitalian Stallion@Dec 18 2004, 08:07 PM

I still like this signing, no matter what you yankee fans say. With the run support he will do just fine (15-ish wins). Plus, he has a nasty slider.

It's a decent signing to say he replaces pedro is proposterous.

[BoSox Rule]

Originally posted by Yankeesin05@Dec 18 2004, 08:08 PM

Fenway might still hurt Clement. He was bad down the stretch and he was leaving fat sinkers over the plate and RH hitters were tee-ing off on him. Wrigley and Fenway both have shallow LF Walls and it would hurt him just as much as it did in Chicago.

 

As for Pavano, Yankee Stadium might hurt Pavano, it might not. If he could get his slider down and in, he would do fine. Dont get me wrong, LH hitters hit like .340 off of him last year. But if he can do what he did to Lefty's, what he did to Righty's, (i think they hit like .250 off him or something) he will do JUST FINE.

Wow, that's realistic. You want him to shave like 100 points off of his BAA out of nowhere.

[BoSox Rule]

Originally posted by Yanksin2010+Dec 18 2004, 08:14 PM-->

QUOTE (Yanksin2010 @ Dec 18 2004, 08:14 PM)