Beltran

DOrtiz4prez · December 17, 2004

Anyone heard any new news about him?

schillingouttheks · December 17, 2004

yeah, boras wants 200 milll over 10 years or something. people are interested, but even the yanks are stayin away from a price like that.

DOrtiz4prez · December 17, 2004

What are the teams going for him?

elsrbueno · December 17, 2004

Last I heard was 4 teams.

Yankees

Astros

and 2 "un named" teams.

ahhchon · December 17, 2004

beltran is so god damn overrated it's not even funny. i'de take many over him anyday anytime anywhere and for anyprice.

john

CrespoBlows · December 17, 2004

Beltran his 38 HR's last year, he stole 42 SB, has an excellent glove in the field, hits for a consitant average, and he murdered pitchers in the postseason. So he's overrated how?

ahhchon · December 17, 2004

Originally posted by CrespoBlows@Dec 17 2004, 01:00 PM
Beltran his 38 HR's last year, he stole 42 SB, has an excellent glove in the field, hits for a consitant average, and he murdered pitchers in the postseason. So he's overrated how?

a players average is a terrible stat to use when judging his value. beltran at best is an above average hitter. defensive abilities are overated, in fact they play a small role in outcomes of games. beltran's fielding percentage is .007 better than manny's. that means he fields .7% better than manny. in fact last season he had 1 more error than manny did.

beltrans best average doesn't even touch manny's career average if you want to talk about averages. but the more important stat OBP: beltrans best career OBP ever, .389 doesn't come close to manny's CAREER OBP of .411. the same goes for SLG and OPS.

don't get me wrong, beltran is a very good baseball player, but his hitting abilities are very overrated. he's not the offensive monster everyone thinks he is. he's a very good hitter, but not 20 mill per year good. if i had a choice between beltran at 17 mill per year and manny and 20 mill per year i'de take manny in a heartbeat.

as for murdering pitchers in the offseason, the offseason is a very small sample. is beltran worth X amount more because he was hot during the post season? of course not, he just got hot at the right time. you can't devalue a player because they slump at a time that you don't want them to slump. it just happens that he got hot at the right time.

if beltran is so good why has he never had a top 10 MVP, never had had the silver slugger, never won the batting title. it's because he's a "5-tool" player. he's above average at everything. this supposidly makes him very good, it is the reason why he is so overrated, because he makes diving catches in the outfield. the fact is that all the diving catches he makes actually make very little difference in the outcome of the games. what's the most he'll do? save 1-2 games a season?

john

elsrbueno · December 17, 2004

Originally posted by ahhchon+Dec 17 2004, 01:47 PM-->
QUOTE (ahhchon @ Dec 17 2004, 01:47 PM)

CrespoBlows · December 17, 2004

Sometimes people fall in love with stats too much, don't even come close to comparing Manny to Beltran out there. Beltran prevents more runs then Manny. Beltran will probably become the next 40-40 guy, he's clutch, and he can steal bases. He can bat 1st or 9th if you want him to. Above Average hitter! He'd hit 50 HR's at fenway.

elsrbueno · December 17, 2004

Originally posted by CrespoBlows@Dec 17 2004, 01:51 PM
Sometimes people fall in love with stats too much, don't even come close to comparing Manny to Beltran out there. Beltran prevents more runs then Manny. Beltran will probably become the next 40-40 guy, he's clutch, and he can steal bases. He can bat 1st or 9th if you want him to. Above Average hitter! He'd hit 50 HR's at fenway.

50 HR's is a bit of a stretch. 40-40, absolutely. But not even Manny's hit 50 HR at Fenway....

ahhchon · December 17, 2004

i am a lover of stats and i DO realize that beltran is damn good. but 20 mill a year good? the guy is allready 27, he's not anywhere close to a-rod.

i wouldn't even consider him 16 mill a year good.

john

Benny9Sox7 · December 17, 2004

Originally posted by ahhchon@Dec 17 2004, 03:07 PM
i am a lover of stats and i DO realize that beltran is damn good. but 20 mill a year good? the guy is allready 27, he's not anywhere close to a-rod.

i wouldn't even consider him 16 mill a year good.

john

Are you saying he doesnt deserve A-rod money.... cuz A-rod doesnt even deserve that money

ahhchon · December 19, 2004

Originally posted by Benny9Sox7+Dec 17 2004, 02:27 PM-->
QUOTE (Benny9Sox7 @ Dec 17 2004, 02:27 PM)

YanksHater213 · December 19, 2004

A-Rod is not the best player in the game. He doesnt do nearly as much as Beltran does. A-Rod may be one of the best pure hitters in the game, but he does little more. Carlos Beltran is the best player in all aspects the game, which include power, average, onbase, fielding, speed, stealing instincts, he has it all, there is no question about it. He isnt worth 20 million a year, no one is, but I think that if he cant get that from someone, then goddamnit someone give it to him

ahhchon · December 19, 2004

Originally posted by YanksHater213@Dec 19 2004, 06:15 AM
A-Rod is not the best player in the game. He doesnt do nearly as much as Beltran does. A-Rod may be one of the best pure hitters in the game, but he does little more. Carlos Beltran is the best player in all aspects the game, which include power, average, onbase, fielding, speed, stealing instincts, he has it all, there is no question about it. He isnt worth 20 million a year, no one is, but I think that if he cant get that from someone, then goddamnit someone give it to him

how can you say that betran is better than a-rod.

ave: (stupid stat)

a-rod has consistantly hit for a higher average than betran.

obp:

a-rod has consistantly gotten on base more than beltran

bb:

a-rod has consistantly gotten more walks than beltran

hr:

a-rod has consistantly hit for more power than beltran

slg:

a-rod has consistantly slugged for a higher % than beltran

ops:

SAME

a-rods offensive numbers have ALWAYS been better than beltrans. even has a batting title

defensively:

a-rod has played ss his whole career. has 2 gg's at that position. beltran has ZERO gg's. a-rod has switched to 3rd base and is holding up well for his first time there ever.

a-rod also has stealing instincts, he's the youngest 40/40 player. one of the THREE ever to do so.

a-rod > beltran

nuff said

only thing beltran has going for him is that he doesn't slap people.

john

YanksHater213 · December 19, 2004

Ouch... I got owned...

BoSox Rule · December 20, 2004

I am really sick of hearing about Beltran.

Joeroafan · December 21, 2004

if cubs cant get rid of sosa he is goin to yanks

stocker323 · December 21, 2004

Where would Sosa play if he went to the Yanks, and why would they even be interested??

YANKEESRULE · December 21, 2004

Originally posted by stocker323@Dec 20 2004, 08:35 PM
Where would Sosa play if he went to the Yanks, and why would they even be interested??

he meant that if Sosa leaves they'll try and get Beltran. Even if that happens I don't think the Cubs will outbid the Yanks unless the Cubbies give out a astronomical number like Texas did with A-Rod. But knowing the Cubs owners they won't.

Yanksin2010 · December 21, 2004

it's really only between yankees and astros, cubs are sort of in the backround.

soxonfox · December 21, 2004

Originally posted by Yanksin2010@Dec 20 2004, 10:18 PM
it's really only between yankees and astros, cubs are sort of in the backround.

the cubs are in it if they trade sammy sosa. theve been trying to trade him to free up space to go after beltran.

oriolesrule5 · December 22, 2004

If the cubs can unload Sosa I think they are gona get Beltran. If not he is goin to be a D-RAY.

Gertie · December 22, 2004

oriolesrule5 made a funny.

DOrtiz4prez · December 28, 2004

Now with Alou gone they freed up some more money. Is Beltran now moved up higher on the list?

soxonfox · December 28, 2004

Originally posted by DOrtiz4prez@Dec 28 2004, 02:21 PM
Now with Alou gone they freed up some more money. Is Beltran now moved up higher on the list?

yes. but before they can even think of getting beltran they have to trade sammy. trading sammy has been the cubs #1 offseason priority for them. when they get that done (i think they will) and if beltran isnt already with the yanks or astros i think beltran will be a cub next season. i dont think he'll get his 200 million over 10 years though.

DOrtiz4prez · December 29, 2004

He says he won't settle for anything beside that 200 mill 10 year deal so I'm not sure your right about that but you are right that if Yanks or Astros don't happen it's Cubbies but I'd say:

Astros: 52% chance

Yanks: 38% chance

Cubs: 10% chance

schillingouttheks · December 29, 2004

lovin the weird percentages, besides hes gunna have to settle for less than 200 mill 10 years, last i heard on espn, the yanks were interested but not even they were willing to pay that much.

yeszir · December 29, 2004

200 for 10 is absolutely ridiculous. If he's asking for that he deserves to be ignored until he fires Boras.

DOrtiz4prez · December 29, 2004

Whoever takes him is pretty much who he will be with the rest of his career. It's insane to pay that much but wasn't Arod somewhere around that ballpark for the Yankees. I don't remember...

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