5GoldGlovesOF,75

Boggs was my favorite player to watch during his days with Boston, with his unwavering, methodical approach to hitting, fouling off borderline pitches then literally placing line drives all over the place. He played in an era when everyone touted Rickey Henderson as the greatest leadoff batter of all time, but I'd argue Boggs was better -- at least at the leadoff man's first job: getting on base. Rickey could steal and hit jump-start HRs, but the percentages all favor the Chicken Man... 1982-92, Boggs' 11-years as a Red Sox: .338 batting average, with a slash of .428/.462/.890... Wade's 18 year career (retired at 41): .328, .415/.443/.858 1982-92 RHenderson, in Oakland & NY: .288 batting average, with a slash of .406/.452/.858... Rickey's 25 year career (retired at 44): .279, .401/.419/.820 Boggs was 6-2, 190 -- a lot bigger than Betts, who skeptics predict will break down because of his size and reliance on speed (and therefore never earn a longterm contract). But Henderson was 5-10 -- a whopping inch taller than Betts -- with both listed at 180 pounds. And Rickey ran right into his 40s, with 25 SBs at age 42...

Steven Wright and all his issues also put them in a bind before last season even began. I think they were hoping he'd be the swingman with All-Star stuff, with spot starts and long relief, and you could sense the pitching staff, at least, was not happy with his suspension. When an accountable guy like Porcello makes comments (answering reporter questions about it), you know it's a portent.

Great job all around. Yaz was actually the first baseman on that '75 team, but moved back to left for the postseason when Rice got hit by a pitch and broke his wrist. When reporters asked the old man, 36 at the time, if he was up for the task, #8 said, "I can play left in my sleep." Yaz stayed awake throughout October and played great in the sweep vs. the A's; there wasn't an MVP award yet for the ALCS or Captain Carl would've won easy. Two years later he played LF full time (Rice was DH), made zero errors all season and won his 7th Gold Glove. Lynn was the only Red Sox player to actually win the Gold in '75, then won 3 more, all with Boston. Evans won 8 GGs, his first in '76 when he hit .242. Beniquez won a GG in '77 as a Texas Ranger. Rick Miller was maybe the best fly-catcher of them all (I adopted his leg-first sliding snag of pop-ups, pocket-up style). He also shagged Carlton Fisk's sister (in matrimony), won Gold as an Angel in '78, and was replaced in center three years later by... Lynn. Miller returned to Boston in the Rick Burleson trade and became the Sox regular CF, replacing... Fred Lynn.

Betts is a better all-around player than Rice and Boggs, and on a path to Cooperstown, as well. Mookie might not get the total that Trout signed for -- 12 years for $430 -- but I think he'll get a higher AAV (my launchpad calculator tells me Trout's is $35.83 per year). If Mookie produces another 7 WAR in his salary-drive 2020, someone is bound to give him at least another $4.17 mil...

Good idea for a thread. Most fans, writers and GMs agree that ten years is too risky to pay for anyone. MLB may be trending to less years/higher AAV... A column in the Boston Globe says we fans overrate Mookie, and mentions Cutch, but also uses Nomar and Fred Lynn as comps. I agree that Betts, Nomar and Lynn represent the three best all-around homegrown Red Sox since Yaz... but disagree that Mookie hasn't already outproduced Nomie and Fred through their Beantown stints. Here are cumulative bWAR scores for their entire Boston tenures (with ages in parenthesis): Betts 42.0 (21-26), Nomar 41.2 (24-29), Lynn 32.1 (22-28). So Mookie has already been at least as valuable, before two or three years of his prime have even kicked in. I strongly suggest making Mookie a Godfather offer for six years, instead of ten. He could be the top-paid player of all-time, while the Red Sox lock him up for his entire prime – ages 28-33. If Betts is still betting on himself, he can then be free for a second longterm deal that can take him to a warmer clime through retirement, and combined with the first, could ultimately make him more money than any proposed 10-year contract will next winter. Someone soon is going to give Betts the most money in MLB history, which I really believe he will earn -- at least through the next half dozen seasons. By the end of his prime, as the market adjusts and other AAVs surpass him, Mookie will look like a bargain. Why not us?

I'd just like to clear my name here... which in no way is a homage to Jeter's 5 GGs. And for the record, I didn't hate him as much for his overrated D, but more for Fox's postseason Jeter Cam, the one that followed him around on the field or in the dugout in every Sox-Yanks game, just in case he fist-pumped. Speaking of Gold Glovers, I think Boston's thriller-Bs outfield unit from 2016-2018 is the best I've ever seen. However, the deepest outfield core of fine fielders has to go to the 1975 AL champs. Those were the days when I'd like to think voters gave more consideration to their eye-tests -- and didn't just pick the most publicized players, especially famous hitters. Five outfielders on that Red Sox team would win Gold between '75 and '78... can anyone name them without looking it up? Clue 1: Hall of Famer Jim Rice was not one of them. Clue 2: two were named in years they hit in the .260s, another in the .240s.

I think some semblance of stability is very important in this offseason. The bipolar Sox aspire to be a team in flux that stays competitive. At this juncture for 2020, there are only two positions on the field that Boston can point at and promote: the left side of the diamond, Bogaerts and Devers. You would think Vazquez and Benintendi would also be included because of their contracts, but some folks also think they make good trade bait because of their contracts. Wait, what am I thinking? Awhile back, someone from a RI paper suggested a radical reboot via a Devers trade... and just this week a guy on MLB.com said the same thing, only with a Bogie trade. Nobody's safe -- lock up your Dalbecs!

I just remember how the Sox screwed with young X's confidence and development in '14: first they gave him the shortstop job, then two months in changed their minds and re-signed Stephen Drew, moving Bogie to third... only to change their minds again two months later, and trading Drew to the Yankees. Ya, that team finished last.

I know there are some posters who think very highly of Dalbec's defense, but I didn't watch enough minor league games last year to see for myself. I did see how shaky Devers was the first month, and the steady improvement he made at third throughout the summer. He became so comfortable and confident that his bat went off en route to leading the MLB with 90 extra-base hits. Unless Dalbec is the next Arenado, I wouldn't consider moving Devers... except maybe to Cincy if the Reds called Chaim with an offer of Castillo and Aquino.

Or vers vice-a...

Good point about Chavis. I posted somewhere how shifting has made second basemen less vital these days, as it's almost a waste to stick a gifted defender like Pedroia used to be out in rightfield half the time, and leave what's left of turning two to the shifted shortstop and third basemen (while those good hot cornermen just get more valuable as roving infielders). Chavis was ok in every aspect at second -- except starting the 4-6-3 from the normal position... but that's a play contenders have to have to stay in contention. Plus, I expect at least one of Chavis or Dalbec has to be dealt this winter as part of a deal to entice a team to take one of our big money starting pitchers (even if they are partially subsidized by the Sox).

The more I read about Bloom's history with Tampa, the more I suspect that his first year running the anti-Rays will be a big adjustment. I hope he gets to recruit some of the prospects with upside that were on his radar down South but not yet acquired. I have to think this was one of Bloom's draws for Boston; he's already coming in with partial plans that were earmarked for a rival, and now the Sox may improve two-fold by grabbing some depth while keeping the same players out of Florida. I can also see him making a few deals that The Nation is unaccustomed to, like trading established big leaguers in or before their primes for even more depth (and salary relief). This is one of Bloom's specialities that may cause him to take some early heat that he is not use to, either. A lot of fans may seem to welcome such radical changes, but think back to the uproar just last Spring on the boards and talk shows when Swihart, the third-string catcher, was shipped off to Arizona. Imagine the overall reactions of the general public if Bloom opts to swap -- say, EdRod and Vazquez -- for less-proven youngsters with only the potential to upgrade (not every fan can appreciate the Archer for Glasnow and Meadows deal like we do here... and very few transactions immediately strike gold, if ever, like that one).

Great line. I think my son has already made enough for Henry to pay Betts, judging by the number of Mookie baseball cards, t-shirts and uniform shirts he owns (he's also a walking billboard, having gone door to door for three straight Halloweens now, disguised as Number 50).

I agree with everything you say -- except I'm the someone who tried to use those "small" guys (all Hall of Famers) to show that Betts will have no problem matching and surpassing their career production. Those comps were to show posters that caution about the longevity risk of ballplayers with similar body types that Betts is already on pace with or better than the best "slight frame" legends in modern history. I sucked at it, but my point was that in this age of testing, we at least know Mookie most likely won't burn out from recreational drugs or do steroids -- as was confirmed/suspected of the two examples you mentioned. Betts comes from good stock, his uncle was a big leaguer and role model who still advises him, his mother is still a prominent influence, and his high school sweetheart and mom of his infant daughter keeps him grounded. One night last fall when other young millionaires were out partying, Mookie was caught feeding the homeless. He was wearing a hoodie, trying not to be noticed. Guys who developed muscle from popular training regimens 15-20 years ago kept breaking down with structural injuries. Nomar, who was skinny in college but suddenly shirtless on the cover of SI, was one of them. Modern big guys are no sure bet to be long-lasting, either. Notice how behemoths like Judge and Stanton are hurt every year? Mookie doesn't have inflated Michelin Man muscles, but he does has Hank Aaron wrists. Those are only some of the reasons that I think Mookie Betts will be one of the few superstars to actually earn his big money contract. For those still stuck on numbers -- and adamantly against 10 for 300 -- I'm also the guy who suggested 6 for 260. That's right, make an offer he can't refuse. And mark this down: Mookie Betts next contract, whether it's with Boston or not, will be the most lucrative in history. Someone will deem his value worthy. And for those posters still stuck on "the tax, the tax, the lost draft picks" that will never equate to another Betts, please remember that this current MLB labor contract runs out after 2121, when everything changes because the players' union will never accept something like that again (and they're already willing to strike about it).

Marisnick is the Astros' best outfielder, so I can see why AC would want him. He's also their worst hitter -- think Bradley, without the power -- and was on deck when the Yanks chose not to pitch around Altuve... and I still can't believe that decision. And neither can Yankee fans. But I'd take him, if it meant keeping some of our other stars around.

There's got to be a better example. Nomar wasn't traded after scoring the walk-off run from first base on a single. Nomar was traded after pouting on the bench, while all his teammates stood on the top step of the dugout to watch Jeter dive face-first into the stands. Plus, OCab and Doug M weren't prospects coming here in '04, but refinements. I can't think of any Red Sox blockbuster trades where the Sox actually swapped a star player and got back a haul of prospects. MLB.com can't either, because in this link, almost all of the deals are when Boston gave up the haul for a star in return (except getting Varitek and Lowe for Slocumb, who wasn't even good at the time). 10 biggest trades in Red Sox history WWW.MLB.COM BOSTON -- Few teams in baseball history have had as many impactful trades as the Red Sox, who helped set up their recent golden era of World Series championships with their wheeling and dealing ways. Pedro Martinez, Curt Schilling, Chris Sale and Josh Beckett are some of the championship aces Does anyone recall a haul?

Punting is for football.

I think chemistry is underrated when considering whether a team can repeat with back-to-back World Series titles, pennant flags (or in the Yankees' case), division crowns. All those benchwarmers comprised an unexpected force to achieve a unified purpose. Suddenly, come playoff time, that winning combo was broken up a bit by returning regulars, who understandably wanted to participate... and it had to be an awkward situation for the guys that got them there. Uneasy Yankee fans knew -- how many really wanted to see Stanton replace Tauchman on the roster? Ford, Voit, Maybin, thanks for coming. The 2020 Yanks may well win the AL East again, but it's unlikely that so many different players will ever contribute as much in one year again.

I'm fairly certain the Sox -- and any team -- will look better going into 2020 with Mookie Betts than without. Talent wins out, not promise, and as a longtime fan I would much rather watch a competitive team now than worry about a future that can only be uncertain... There's not even a guarantee any one of us will even have a future to keep watching.

Betts tosses 16-pound bowling balls around for fun every offseason. He stays in shape.

If your boss is paying you 23 million dollars to play a damn kid's game, you'd better be flexible. I looked up Martinez' entire professional career on baseball-ref; in his first year in the minors, at age 21, JD actually played four games at first base. He made 2 errors and never played there again. There's gotta be something holding JD back, besides personal preference, from even trying on a first baseman's mitt. It could be his back. Or his front. Or management has seen him in practice and determined he's just not an option.

It would seem that way -- just stand there and catch the ball -- but there is also a lot of nimble footwork required, holding runners on, a step and a dive on liners, moving to make good feeds in traffic to start DPs, taking and relaying cutoff throws from right and center. A really good first sacker can be a weapon, like Keith Hernandez pouncing on bunts. The Yankees seemingly wasted their best defensive player at first in the playoffs, but that was partly so they could keep Torres' bat in the lineup at second base. Torres is not a bad defender, but it was DJ was who nominated for a Gold Glove at second, and now they're letting Gregorious go so Torres can move to short and DJ back to second permanently. Voit had a hernia, but fans worried all summer about whether they could trust him at first in a championship drive in October. We rarely see contenders with bad first basemen. Dick Stuart's nickname was Dr. Strangeglove, but he could hit dingers, and Boston needed the draw. His '63/64 Sox finished 7th and 8th, 28 and 27 games behind. He made 53 errors. At first base!

I know, a lot of fans and clubs don't want to be stuck with the years -- especially since at least the last 40% of most contracts are dead weight. One recent trend seems to be offering a higher AAV at less years -- that's why I suggested 6 at 260; Mookie would be the highest paid player in history at $43.33 mil per, and then be a free agent again at 33... Then if he's still producing -- and betting on himself like he always has -- he should have no problem getting another contract from someone else at, say, 4 for 140 -- which is another $35 mil per (which may be normal pay for a good player by 2027). When you add up both contracts, that's a cool 10 for 400...

"No baseball player is worth X amount of dollars" (fill in the blank) Baseball fans have been using that phrase forever, but have been hearing it and reading it more and more since free agency. No ballplayer was worth $100 grand, then no player was worth $1 million, then $100 million?... and now, half a freakin billion? Dollars? Numbers don't really matter when they're all relative to the current market. So... try to forget the numbers and just ask and answer yourself: is Mookie Betts worth a salary at the top of his market? If your answer is yes -- and many fans, media and probably front offices agree -- then ante up, because no taxes saved or draft picks gained in this pseudo-salary cap that the union stupidly agreed to will ever land you another Mookie. If your answer is no -- and there are plenty of folks of this opinion -- then take what you can get, knowing that it will never be anything close to the value of the best all-around Red Sox player since Yaz. If Mookie is gone before 2020, I'm glad to have watched him spark the Sox into contention the past six years. But I'd much rather enjoy watching a batting champ/Gold Glove/MVP for one more season of possible glory... instead of replacement prospects.

Corner outfielders see sporadic action -- though a misplay can mean extra bases. But a first baseman gets chances in virtually every inning, and is entrusted to secure automatic outs. A skilled first baseman has good hands and reflexes to make scoops and stretches that save errors and subsequent pitches for the guy on the mound. Napoli started in the big leagues as a catcher. Ernie Banks was an MVP shortstop before moving to first. A lot of third basemen transition easily over to first: Youk, Tony Perez... cough, Bagwell. A bad defensive ballplayer doesn't play first.