oldtimer

Because of Moreland there are a lot of options. For instance Bogie leadoff and Betts third, with Moreland where bogie is now. Just put Moreland 3rd is another possibility against right handed pitching. There are many more possibilities. I like a guy with some speed in the table setting role and some power in the 3, 4 and 5 holes. I think Cora was trying to do that, except that Hanley has gone into a deep slump. Time for some different thinking.

With 30.25% of the season gone, Hanley has completed 37.6% of the plate appearances necessary to fulfill the contract requirements. I wouldn't mind if he were delivering at least some part of his part of the bargain, but if he stays mired in the current slump for too long his $22.7 million salary for this year will be ridiculously high, let alone having it vest for next year. Nothing we can do about 2018, that is a sunken cost. My solution is to give him extra rest and see if that helps pull him out of the slump and if not, the rest would act to reduce PA's and leave open a choice on the part of the Sox. I am hoping that Hanley regains his April form and that the Sox are a better team for it.

Changing the subject away from Betts and to that old saw, good pitching beats good hitting. What we are seeing today is teams that develop or stockpile a pitching staff with a number of starters who can throw at least 3 quality pitches and can go through a lineup up to three times while remainning effective. That means probably at least 6 innings and better if 7 or more. Starters now often are only achieving 5+ and have learned to nibble to avoid the great power so many hitters have these days. In addition to the starters, many BP's have multiple relievers who throw in the high 90's and these guys come in for an inning so the hitter only sees them once. Hitters are at a disadvantage for sure and when two good staffs face each other we can expect low scoring games. Now some teams can back up their pitching with outstanding defense. That causes further issues for hitters. Rare teams have it all, good pitching, good defense and solid hitting. I am thinking of the Astros here. So the Sox have been facing the Rays who are a decent team and our hitters have been held more in check, but we shouldn't be too critical of them since it is very difficult to score. We just hope to get enough batted balls in play, draw enough walks and have our own pitching staff come with good performances and to date we have. The Rays have blinked first and a pitcher had issues and the defense made critical errors. Playing a team like theirs is a game with little margin for error. Knowing that, it is imperitive for us to put our best lineups in to enhance our chance of winning. We know we have problems at the bottom of the order with the catcher and JB J not likely to produce much although last night the hitting almost all came from the bottom of the order. The number 3 hold with Rameriz has also turned cold and as a result the opportunities our table setters gave us were lost. Hanley has gone into a slump, and whether he needs a rest or it is symptoms of his slowing down is immaterial. The point is we had a solid lefty who is also a quality first baseman on the bench who offered us a good alternative where in the 3 hole or with others moved around. Cora didn't choose to go that way and it didn't work out well. No way to know if Moreland would have been better but I believe there was a high probability that Hanley would not produce last night. We were fortunate that the Rays made critical errors and that Bogie came through to avoid what could easily have been a loss. We need Hanley to return to his April form and we think he is healthy this year. He is doing a decent job defensively at 1st. The smart move still may to give him more rest and see what happens.

Heck of a game tonight with most of the hits coming from the bottom of the order. Even though no hits, our table setters did their job getting on base 5 times. Unfortunately Hanley was unable to get the job done yet again tonight and left 5 men on base. I believe the 3 hole is a critical RBI slot and Hanley is in a prolonged slump right now. Moreland is still hitting and would have been my choice, especially with a right hand starter. The Rays have a tough pitching staff and I would blame no one for having a tough night against them, but I still think we need to put our best foot forward in these situations. We can thank the Rays for giving us a 2 base error and for Bogie to come through with a double at the critical time. He is a cool guy. They the Rays pitching and defense gave us insurance runs. Meanwile the Yankees are behind giving up 12 runs at last count. Texas is pounding Yankee pitching.

Tonight Price did well and the BP was excellent with Barnes, Kelly and Kimbrel holding a decent hitting Rays team to 1 run over 9 innings. Our relievers didn't throw that many pitches so should be okay to go again tomorrow if necessary with the exception of Kimbrel who could use a rest. Lets hope we have a bigger lead tomorrow so others in the pen can be used. We needed the pen to be good tonight and it was.

I know that is how you see it and probably you can bring reams of backup to that conclusion but tonight we have a cold Hanley hitting after our table setters. What happened seemed predictable. Bases loaded with no one out, Hanley hits into a double play. We wind up with only 1 run instead of breaking the game open. I would have rested Hanley and when I returned him it would be out of the critical 3rd hole. Hope we don't lose this one due to the reluctance to sit a player. By the way, I decided to drop of the in game tread. Lots of good people there but also very vulgar and stupid posts that turned me totally off.

As Jasonbay said last night, the stupid and vulgar posts pollute the rest of the site. Lots of good posters here who know baseball and are real Sox fans. I for one will take a rest for a while and stay off the site, not wanting any association with the one or two guys who bring the site down. Hard to ignore them.

I actually agree with your thinking about JBJ. When a player has an extended streak of pathetic hitting, his value to the team is greatly diminished. I think his fielding is excellent but question whether it makes up for the hitting. Cora is more patient then I would be and my view has been that if we have a better option, it should be implemented insted of JBJ. So far, Cora gets a bye since he is a new guy and his methods need a chance to prove out. So far the team is doing well. My question is will he take action if and when it becomes necessary? My problems with Farrell was that he seemed almost inert and I likened him to Buddha, standing in the dugout and above all that was going on. I prefer an activist manager.

Why do we discuss things on this site. If Cora believes something is right then there can be no discussion? Cora is fine, but he isn't the Pope.

Tonight our top relievers were shall we say enough to cause me nightmares. Just survived that one.

Lots of anxiety but not as bad as reading some of this thread. Like the scum of the earth visits this site.

Who says that Thornburg will be great shakes. Lets see him perform before getting rid of people. I'd rather send someone down with options temporarily and see Thornburg for a game or three.

Pedey is not very fast and probably not a base stealing threat any more. Having Betts and Beni up front is working, at least for now, so why change that. Pedey at 6th or 7th sounds about right for the time being until we see that he can do more.

Maybe the pitchers didn't know his strengths and weaknesses. Now they know his plate discipline is not there they consistently give him pitchers off the plate and he offers all to often. It is curable so lets hope he makes adjustments. His hand eye coordination looks okay and we know he has bat speed and power. I think he will be okay. Perhaps a low average but still a contribution with extra base hits and RBI's.

I think Larry Lucchino was a fly in the ointment that damaged the team and caused trouble for Francona, who has been shown to be a good manager. Sorry when he left and never a fan of Farrell who reminded me of Buddha standing in the dugout without seemingly being excited by the game. Valentine was not worth mentioning. Cora is so new that it would be foolish to judge him. Some good and some questionable, but very good results.

The question is "Do we need an offensive catcher?". If the real question is do we need a different catcher to be competitive enough to win the pennant or at least get a wild card slot, the answer is probably no. If on the other hand the question means would a good defensive catcher that would hit significantly better than either one we have now help the team win more games, the answer is yes. The question really is there anyone we can get that fits that description that won't cause problems with having to give up a beneficial piece of the team or make us exceed the next luxury tax plateau? I am always for improving the team and if there is an incremental way to do that, then fine.

Those are very good numbers for a table setter. In addition, he has 8 stolen bases this year without getting caught which projects to close to 30 for the year. The kid is a nice piece of our offensive lineup.

Funny thing but of course Hanley is not getting on much at all so it is not saying a lot.

We have coaches who you would think would work with slumping hitters. No doubt they do, however, some are receptive while others don't seem to adjust. I am hoping and I do believe am seeing some small adjustments in Devers. He has the tools to be a better hitter but needs to be coached into plate discipline and learning the strike zone.

To me, the starter with a larger number of quality pitches to use has a better chance of getting through the lineup multiple times. That is especially true if the starter also has good command of his pitches and can throw them at any point in the count. E-Rod has his fast ball, multiple versions of his changeup and does throw a slider. He is a nibbler though so the pich numbers build up quickly. Many hitters today adjust on the fly and can sit on one pitch if they know it is coming and have seen it before. Relievers can get by with less since they may only go one inning. I

It possible you are right about your view, however, it is equally possible that he continues to hit poorly throughout the season, or as long as Cora can tolerate poor performance. If that is what happens and we wind up losing enough games we might otherwise have won, then we are jeapordizing our standing at the end of the season. That argument can be made for any slumping player and particularly for those where we see no showing signs of improvement. When is a player in decline such that past performance no longer is a sign of future results. Tough question, but I am in favor of taking corrective action instead of bemoaning what might have been later in the season.

We have a slumping player batting third in the order. He is 35 years old and by all means a good clubhouse presence. What I have noticed is that he is having more trouble getting around on the fastball these days. Cora can stay with him but maybe a better choice is to give him additional rest with Moreland playing well. If he is n the decline due to his age, regular extra rest may be what is needed to get him back to being a solid contributor when he does play.

Ever the optimist

Things are looking up. Mookie is staying hot and JDM is just a great hitter. Something new is that Beni is heating up to the extent he is over 280 and is contributing daily. Bogaerts and Moreland are also very solid this year. Devers will get some key hits and Nunez is a pro and will get better probaly prett soon. Our weak spots remain a slumping Hanley, JBJ and the catcher. With Pedey returning we are gaining something at 2nd base we can certainly use. We are a solid club and worthy of our current position. Our pitching isn't super but is not that ad either. We still have Sale, Price can have good days, Porcello is now 6 & 1 I believe and Erod can be very solid. Lots to be optimistic about on this team.

Things are looking up Betts is still incredible Beni is coming on strongly Moreland is a solid 1st baseman and can hit JDM is a great hitter Bogie is a very solid hitter and reliable if not great defensive shortstop Nunez draws a lot of criticism but is a pro and can hit Devers swings at too many pitches off the plate but still will hit his weight or more. Holt may prove to be a decent utility man Pedey is coming shortly So wake up Hanley and JBJ or take some action, Our pitching is what it is. Thornburg may help and Wright is a possibility, Price has possibilities. Lots of room for optimism.