moonslav59

When the Royals are wheeling and dealing more than we are, there is good reason for pessimism.

Yes, I forgot about the guy who looked real good finishing the 2021 season. The 1B plan was not flawed. I just don't get why some seem to blame a decent plan, just because it failed.

sfg, tex, tor?

I'm not impressed by that list.

There are certainly reasons to think Monty will decline as he ages. To me, it's probably more about budget constraints than any dislike of Monty.

Some posters felt the Yamo signing was going to b last these guys into huge and out-of-reach deals.

This will only make not signing him more frustrating. He might end up getting a AAV close to what Gio got, but for 2-3 more years. With Sale off the books, there is no excuse.

The pre-season plan at 1B was not a bad one, at all. It just did not work, and Bloom was too slow to do anything about it. In his defense, it is not always easy finding a trade in May or June. Going into 2022, the plan at 1B was this: 1. We had a starting 1Bman with an .819 OPS out of the gate in a rather large sample size of 545 career PAs. Dalbec had 33 HRs in 497 ABs with a Renroesque RBI total of 94. That was not a bad plan, especially when he looked to be trending upwards with his .867 OPS in his final 103 games of 2021 (345 PAs.) 2. His back up was a fine looking ML-ready, Tristan Casas, who just happened to get hurt at the exact time he was likely to be called up to replace the struggling Dalbec. There was plenty of things to criticize Bloom over, but with the budget he had, I don't see how anyone should have thought he needed to spend on a 3rd first baseman prior to 2022. Yes, he should have traded for one in June, but the 1B plan was solid going into 2022.

The one year he did something at the deadline (Aldo Ramirez for Schwarber,) look what happened.

Until the Story signing, almost every deal was for 1 year. (Kike and a couple other lessers were for only 2 years.) You don't get many stars that way. You get scrubs or players looking to reset their value for the next winter FA market. If they do well, they walk. If they suck, they walk. I give Bloom a pass for year one and two, because he had about 20 holes on the 40 man roster to fill and precious few prospects able to help the big club, those years. His budget was limited. If he spent $20M x 3 on a pitcher, he'd have had nothing left to sign the Renfroes, Wachas, Hills, Strahms and others. Once he spent on Story, Yoshida, Jansen, Martin, JT, Duvall and the Barnes extension, one could not longer explain why there was no serious spending on the rotation. Sure, the highly paid Sale ate up a lot of the budget, but we saw Porcello walk and not be replaced in salary. We saw Erod walk and the same thing. We saw Nate walk. The only guys we replaced were guys like Richards with Kluber, Perez with Wacha or Hill. Granted, guys like JT helped, a lot. Duvall did well. Kike did well, year one. Renfroe did well. Jansen did well. Martin did well. They all filled some high need areas, but why were they all non SP'ers? We lost tens of millions of dollars in SP'er contracts over Bloom's era. I listed most of them. We added: $6M Perez I $5M Perez II $10M Richards $7M Wacha $5M Hill $10M Kluber Our highest winter spending on the rotation in 4 years? $12M for Wacha + Hill in 2022. The range has been from about $6M to $12M for 4 straight winters. Now, we jump up to $19M, but again, it's for 1 year, unless Gio sucks. And, if you subtract the $10M "saved" in the Sale trade, we are once again back to $6M-12M spent on the rotation for 2024.

The "time ir right," now for the O's and they will not spend a dime. The Astros might be the model. They keep winning, despite letting stars walk. They spend, when needed and where needed.

Well, we could trade salary and add some, elsewhere.

No, thanks.

He might be the best we can hope for.

SP'ers still available: Monty & Snell Clevinger, Lorenzen & Ryu (Injured) Kershaw & Woodruff (Major Character Issues) Bauer, Urias & German Lauer, A Wood, Junis, B Keller Greinke, Cueto, RHill V Velasquez, Z Davies, Syndergaard & Teheran Odorizzi, D Duffy, Turnbull

Indeed! It seems like adding a quality SP'ers has a ripple effect all the way down the line, unlike other positions.

Agreed. When you look at possible upgrade areas, there are usually a few factors involved. Take the example brought up, earlier, about signing Matt Chapman. It would be a cle upgrade on defense, and would push Devers to 1B/DH, Casas to DH/1B and Yoshida to near FT LF. It's not easy valuing the changes made to those 4 positions on O and D. You have to look at how much of an upgrade is any addition over what you have, and what you do with the current starter. Adding a catcher would be easy, especially for a one year deal or until Teel is ready. Wong or McGuire becomes the back-up and we trade the other or send Wong to AAA as depth. Adding a CF'er keeps Rafaela and or Abreu in AAA for another season and might bridge us to Anthony, assuming it is also a one year deal. The side advantage is that it locks Duran into LF, more often. Adding a RF'er might force Duran to CF, as O'Neill plays LF. That seems like less of a plus, in theory. Upgrading one or two Rotation slots offers the chance for a larger gain, because what we have is so low or questionable. The added advantage is moving Houck or Crawford to the pen. Double plus. Add two solid SP'ers and it's a quadruple plus.

We could use an upgrade at Catcher or CF/RF, but clearly our rotation is a much higher priority. Plus, we have Teel and Anthony as our best, near ML ready, prospects, so any upgrade would likely have to be a one year player.

It's not rocket science. While there is no guarantee adding much better SP'ing will get us to the playoffs, it sure looks like the area most in need of a serious upgrade. The added benefit of upgrading the rotation would be a likely serious upgrade to the pen, as we move 1 or 2 pitchers, who have shown they can do very well in the pen, back into it. As bad as this team has looked for a couple years, it seems like we were just 2 solid SP'ers away from being a playoff team. Maybe one ace type could have been enough. I might be a homer for saying this, but we could still add Monty, Clevinger and Duvall and be at worst, WC contenders in 2024. Maybe just Monty and Duvall.

The winter of the Two Million Dollar splurge!

But, do you really think most Sox fans only view our championship seasons as the only ones that count on an issue like this? While it is well documented that our 4 rings involved having not just one, but at least two very good SP'ers, but that the overall health of the rotation was present, too. IMO, the rotation has been THE major reason we have 4 rings. For so many years, we seemed to fall short due to being out pitched or seemingly one top SP'er short of being champs, but there are many examples in MLB where teams witn without having a clear ace. There have been a few examples where teams win without having a really good #2 or #3 SP'er, either. To say it is "BS" to say this is over reach, IMO.

Why look at just 4 examples? (BTW, I agree that SP'ing is the major factor in PO wins.)

I think of it this way: They "saved"... $10M on the Sale trade $8.7M on the Verdugo trade $5M on the Urias trade Total: $23.7M $19.2 Giolito $5.9 on the O'Neill trade Total: $24.7M Big $1M splurge, this winter.

I agree. Just compare these two seasons of significant offseason additions: 2021: $10M x 1 Richards $8M x 1 Ottavino (trade) $7M x 2 Kike $5M x 1 Perez $3.1M Renfroe $3.0M Marwin $2.0M x 1 Andriese $1.5M x 2 Sawamura 2022 $140M/6 Story $12M/1 JBJ (trade) $14M/2 Paxton $7M/1 Wacha $5M/1 R Hill $8M/ Diekman $3M/1 Strahm 2023: $90M/5 Yoshida $32M/2 Jansen $12M/1 Turner $10M/1 Kluber $18M/2 Martin $7M/1 Duvall $3M/1 Mondesi (trade) Which season got the best results from their additions?

I did not list Nate in '21, because by then, I viewed him as a "#1." (My criteria is different from most. To me, a #1 is about a top 30 SP'er.)