moonslav59

Exactly. In theory, he could be 10-11, but the team goes 23-11 in his starts. If wins are what counts most, use wins in starts not stupid W-L records created by someone who thinks they alone knows what determines who deserves the win or loss. The list of the all time best pitchers by wins and or winning % is a very good one. I think the list of greats ranked by ERA, ERA-, WAR or OPS Against shows a better list and a better order. Just my take.

The funny part is, their hero was they guy who signed that loser.

Bad pen? Bad D? Bad O? Bad luck? A mix of the 2-4? Dumb "win" rules?

Of course the sum of all pitchers' records equals the team record. See, I actually answer questions asked.

Not SP's, only. Are you saying wins and losses is how you judge RP'ers, too?

Why would any GM want to trade Martin for a loser?

True, but now replace our 8th RP'er with Houck and what do we gain, there? Maybe Monty with 4.7 more fWAR than Houck?) Maybe Houck with 1.3 more fWAR in the pen over the 8th guy, now (someone like Weissert?) Maybe a 6 fWAR gain, overall (high side guess.)

The whole wins, losses and saves "stat" is a contrived number that has no basis in reality. At least those who cling to BA and RBIs are looking at actual results by the player, not the team and rules-makers. (One can argue team scorers can taint those numbers, along with park factors and strength of opponents, but at least the numbers are real.

I guess Sox fans would be fine, if we had Logan Webb (26-22 in last 2 years) on our team, and traded him for Chris Bassitt (31-17 in last 2 years.) How about Nola (23-22) for Kyle Gibson (25-17).

Yes, 17-13 and 17-15= 34-28 That is a .548 win%. .548 x 162 games = 89 wins out of 162. Is it about winning, or not?

I thought it was about wins. Now, losses count as much? I'm confused. Wins or winning %? Why don't playoff wins count for even more, rather than not all all?

In 2021, ERod went 13-8. Not bad, but not something that the "win decisión" posse would rave about. The team went 19-12 in his starts, and he was a big reason the team did well in '21. (Not replacing him in the next 2 years was a key to the drop off.) Amazingly, the team went 26-8 in his starts in 2019, the year we dropped off a cliff. (He went 19-6 in decisions.) They went 19-4 in his 2018 starts, while his W-L record was just 13-5. I think those who prefer wins above all else, should use team wins in starts, but that's not "traditional," so it won't fly. If it's all about winning, team wins in starts should trump W-L records based on weird criteria. ERod can pitch shut out ball ball, but come one out short of the criteria, and they can give the win to a guy who goes .1 IP.

14 wins, if you count the 3 playoff wins. The team won 17 of his starts in '21 and '22.

I agree. The other 4 teams have "stepped it up" to not be last place material. ALE last place finishes since ... Cherry-picked worst era for the Sox (2012-2023) BOS 6 (half of these 12 years) BAL 4 (1/3 of these 12 yrs) TBR 1 TOR1 NYY 0 Since 2003 (21 years) Henry Era 8 BAL 6 BOS 5 TBR 2 TOR 0 NYY Since 1997 (TOR added as expansion team) 10 TBR 8 BAL 6 BOS 3 TOR 0 NYY (DET finished last in the 1996 ALE)

Last 60 Years leaders: Wins: 355-227 Maddox 354-184 Clemens 329-244 Carlton 324-292 Ryan 324-256 Sutton 318-274 P Neikro 311-205 Seaver 310-258 G Perry 303-166 R Johnson Does the top 10 win leaders look better ordered than the top 10 fWAR lest? fWAR 134 Clemens 117 Maddux 111 Johnson 107 Ryan 103 Blyleven 100 Perry 97 Carlton 92 Seaver 86 Sutton 84 Pedro Longevity plays a role in the top win & fWAR leaders: ERA- does not 2000+ IP since 1964: 63 Kershaw 67 Pedro 70 Clemens 75 Johnson 76 Scherzer, Maddux, Gibson, Halladay, Verlander 78 Palmer, Brown, Oswalt 79 Seaver, Schilling I think the ERA- list shows the best pitchers, but longevity has value, too.

ETAs on the top Sox prospects, according to soxprospects.com: 2024: 4 Rafaela 6 Yorke (late) 8 Abreu 11. Fitts (late) 2025: Early: 3 Teel Mid/Late: 1 Anthony, 2 Mayer, 9 Wikelman, 13 Sandlin, 14 Meidroth, 17 Hickey 2026: Early: Mid/Late: 5 Bleis, 7 Perales, 15 Castro 2027: 10 Cespedes, 12 Zanetello, 16. Joh Garcia Longshots: 2024: 22 DHam, 25 Slaten (Rule 5), 27 Guerrero, 29 Mata (out of options), 33 Walter, 37 Gambrell. 39 Penrod, 42 Scott 2025: 20 Jordan, 24 Dobbins, 28 Bastardo, 30. Hoppe, 34 Troye, 46 I Coffey, 51 Olivares, 52 Rosier, 56 Liu 2026: 18 Paulino, 19 Romero, 21 Monegro, 26 E R-C, 31 Alcantara, 35 Rogers, 36 Brannon, 38 C Coffey, 40 Paez, 45 Ravelo, 47 K Campbell, 48 Cepeda, 49 Sena, 50 Riemer 2027: 23 Anderson, 32 Arias, 41 Asencio, 44 Yuten, 57 Soto, 58 Early, 59 Judice Post Prospects on the farm, or non ranked prospects thyat may play in MLB inn 2024: C Murphy I Campbell G Weissert Z Kelly C Criswell J Rodriguez J Hagenman AJ Politi Luetge J Benitez Noah Song Roberto Perez C Tyler Heineman C Mark Conreras LF Romy Gonzalez RF Jamie Westbrook IF Matthew Lugo IF Tyler McDonough IF/OF

We have not been horrible, since 2020. The weird thing is, no other ALE team has had a "bad year," since 2021. One could say NYY did, last year, but not bad enough for the Sox to pass. The last 3 weeks of the season allowed the Yanks to finish 4th. I'm not sure what the odds are that another team in the ALE has a confluence of bad things happen, and we could finish 4th, even with a worse record than '22 and '23.

Sounds about right, for now. 85-86 w Monty 83-84 w Clevinger 80-81 w no additions and no major injuries

The Sox are not know for upping their offers, very often, but in this case, I hope they are prepared to do it, at least a little bit.

Depends what you call an ace. To me, he's a top 30 SP'er in MLB, and so should be called a number 1 SP'er (1 per 30 teams.) The word "ace" has many different interpretations. If we signed him, he'd ne our #1, or "ace" as some might call a team's best pitcher.

I'll have a one man parade, if we hit 85.

Love it!

It does also get me thinking, if many of us feel like adding Monty makes us playoff contenders, then are we really as bad without him, as we seem to think? Adding 4-5 wins should not turn us from awful to playoff bound.

Agreed, and it also makes the ceiling a little higher and attainable. AVG Rotation Plus Pen Near AVG Defense (16th-22nd?) Plus Offense

I task you with figuring out Teddy's real BA in his .406 season.