moonslav59

True, but then if Papi gets hurt or throw out at home by an inch, we'd hear people roasting JF for not PR'ing for him with a pitcher- like other teams do.

We'll probably go with 11 pitchers, so we can take 3 from Holaday, Vazquez, Hanigan, Hernandez, Moncada or Hill. I'm real down on Hill right now and high on Hernandez. I don't think we need both, so I'd go with Holaday, Hernandez and Moncada (PR'er and maybe PH'er vs RHP) to fill out the bench with Young and Holt.

1B: Shaw vs RHPs/ HanRam vs LHPs DH: HanRam vs RHPs/Young vs LHPs 3B: Pablo or Moncada vs RHPs/ Hernandez vs LHPs I can totally understand why anyone might be unhappy with this set-up, especially when compared to one with Papi at DH FT. I can see why people want a 3Bman, DH or corner IF'er. If money were not an object, I'd say let's go out and get Turner at 3B or EE at DH, but I'm not sure it will happen. 1) Money is a concern, and going over the luxury tax this year will be a 50% tax. (We're already spending $19.5M on 3B for the next 3 years.) 2) Signing a really good player, usually means 3+ years. This would block Moncada and/or Devers and possibly even Swihart down the road. 3) Spending at 3B or DH may lessen what we can spend on the pen (see #1).

I mixed up DH and 1B. I went back and edited it.

To me, Young is a near must to play vs LHPs, and I don't want to sit beni, Betts or Bradley, so DH seems like a fit for Young. I'm not sure he's good enough vs RHPs to be our FT DH, and since we have a ton of guys that hit righties better, I think a DH platoon might end up being what we get- like it or not. Maybe Moncada-Young, HanRam-Young (see my last post) or Pablo-Young. Long shot: Swihart.

I still think the DH role might best suit HanRam, so I'd say 1B might be a "secondary need" instead of DH. He's a below average fielder, but if being a DH leads to a lack of focus or attention, then maybe 1B is best for him. If we make no acquisitions at corner IF. I think this might be best: 1B: Shaw vs RHPs/ HanRam vs LHPs DH: HanRam vs RHPs/Young vs LHPs 3B: Pablo or Moncada vs RHPs/ Hernandez vs LHPs

Up .049 in OPS on Trout. Up .036 in SLG on Murphy. 3rd in RBIs (5 behind Arenado) 5th in OBP in MLB. 11th in HRs.

Here's something amazing about Papi's 2016 season: Most XBHs in a season 91 (2004) 88 (2005) 88 (2007) 86 (2016) Counting the HR and 2B tonight 85 (2006) It's possible he breaks his personal best this year. Having his second best XBH season is likely. How about the fact that Papi's .632 league-leading SLG% is just .004 from his career high in 2006? This could be the only year he of his career where leads in SLG and OPS. It's also the first time he's led the league in 2Bs.

Tiny sample size? Yes. But, Beni is nearly over the 100 PA mark and has climbed to the number 3 slot in OPS on the Sox. The fall of Leon is also a factor. 1.039 Papi .906 Betts .893 Beni .869 Ram .866 Leon .854 Young .851 JBJ .829 Pedey .796 Bogey .758 Hernandez .733 Rutledge .732 Shaw .723 Holt .720 Swihart .690 Brentz .625 Castillo .584 Vazquez .567 Hill .515 Holaday .513 Moncada .463 Hanigan

This from MLBTR.... ...The White Sox have to trade Frazier, Melky Cabrera, and Miguel Gonzalez, who are controlled through 2017. It would be logical to unload the well-compensated David Robertson (signed through 2018), and to trade or non-tender Lawrie and Avisail Garcia. James Shields should be released. The White Sox control ace starter Chris Sale through 2019. If 2017 and 2018 are looking bleak, then now’s the time to cash Sale in for a king’s ransom. While wingman Jose Quintana is controlled for one additional year beyond Sale, it makes sense to trade both if they’re trading one. Particularly in a free agent market devoid of starting pitching, Hahn would hold the two best cards. Abreu, controlled through 2019 like Sale, would logically be dealt as well. The team would be building toward a 2020 reboot... Could a blockbuster be in store? Could us taking on salary from their dumps lessen the return demand? Shields is owed $45M/2 or $58M/3 ($18.8M luxury hit) Cabrera owed $15M/1 ($14M luxury hit) Other better contracts: Quintana is owed $26M/3 or $35.4M/4 (luxury hit $4.2M) C Sale is owed $25.5M/2 or $38M/3 (luxury hit $6.5M) Robertson is owed $25M/2 ($11.5M) Abreu is owed $4M/3 ($11.3M luxury hit) Todd Frazier has one arb year left. We could use a huge rotation upgrade (Quintana or Sale?), a top RP'er who can't choose being made a number #2 (Robertson) and a stop gap 3Bman (Frazier) until Moncada could be ready. We could even move HanRam to DH and add Abreu. So, what would it take to get Quintana, Robertson, Frazier and Abreu? We'd have to start with Moncada and or Benintendi, so if it's Moncada, then Frazier as a stop-gap is for not. If it's Beni, we'll need a LF'er (Moncada? Swihart? Young?) Could Frazier bridge to Devers? Let's say it's Moncada. Add Shaw, Kopech, S Travis, Dubon, Basabe, and we're still short. Take on Shields and maybe we'd be closer, but now we're way over the luxury limit. Let's say it's Beni and we take on Cabrera as another "bridge". Let's say it's both... I'm not sure something this large is even able to be discussed. It's too complex. I'm sure the White Sox will want way more than what I have listed as a starting point, but if they will truly be looking at 2020 and beyond, then guys like JBJ, Betts and Bogey wouldn't make a lot of sense. Would they want all our long term gems? Groome & Kopech. Moncada & Basabe or Beni & Devers Shaw and Travis Dubon and more? Owens and Johnson? It's late, I'm asleep. Did I just post this crap?

By Brian MacPherson / @brianmacp ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. — Pablo Sandoval has progressed in his rehabilitation from shoulder surgery, so much so that the Red Sox have not ruled out his being an option in case of an emergency in the playoffs, Boston manager John Farrell said Saturday. "If something were to happen that we can't forecast right now, does he make himself an option?" Farrell said. "That's logical. That door has not been closed." Sandoval underwent surgery to repair a torn labrum in early May, a procedure that the team said at the time would sideline him for the season. But Sandoval has gotten at-bats in two instructional league games in Fort Myers, Florida, and will play third base at some point after he gets clearance from a doctor, he said. "I'm just focusing on getting better every single day," he said. "It's not my decision, those decisions, so the thing I'm focusing on is getting back on the field healthy to help my team." "We're not getting too far ahead of ourselves here," Farrell said. "But, at the same time, I want to compliment him for the work he's put in, the way he's responded to the rehab, the way he's worked himself back into better condition. We're staying open-minded." "I'm happy to be back with my teammates," Sandoval said, standing outside the Red Sox clubhouse at Tropicana Field. "The way they've been playing, I've been watching those games, and I know they've been having fun. To be part of this moment right now is exciting. It's exciting to be here with them." Sandoval joining the Red Sox is not likely by any means, but he could represent an option in case of an injury to Travis Shaw, Aaron Hill or Brock Holt. That nobody has seized the third-base job, as Farrell made clear last week, only adds intrigue to the possibility of a Sandoval return. Sandoval is in the second season of a five-year, $95 million contract. He hit .245 with a .292 on-base percentage and a .366 slugging percentage last season. That he could return in the playoffs, however, makes even more sense considering the fact that he won three World Series titles with the San Francisco Giants. He's a .344 career hitter in the playoffs.

Ian Cundall ‏@IanCundall Sep 23 #RedSox 3B Pablo Sandoval got four at bats in the fall instructional league game today. Went 2-4 with two hard ground ball singles, K and F8

Maybe with Leon's growing slump, we'll go with a 3rd catcher. I'd rather add a better bat to PH (Moncada/Hernandez?) to PH for Leon or Holaday/Hanigan or a just add a PR'er (Moncada?).

$30M/1 or $30M x 5 years? 1) That's about double what top closers get paid per year. 2) I know the 9th inning is important, but $30M for about 60 innings is a gross overpay, even for someone you could guarantee a 0.00 ERA over 60 innings. 3) I do think our pen improvement is the most important area of need. The 3B job is up in the air, but with about 6 guys fighting for the job, I doubt we make that position our big splash move. 4) I get that acquiring the best "set-up" guys can be somewhat elusive or illusive, so your idea has merit in terms of offering whatever it takes to get him to say yes to be our #2. If it takes $30M a year to get him, I'd say that's way too much, sorry and adios.

Number one while playing in the toughest division in MLB by far! No division has 4 teams with more than 74 wins. We have 4 with 80 or more. No division has 3 teams with more than 82 wins. We have 3 with 85 or more. No division has 2 teams with more than 83 wins. We have 2 with 86 or more. Yes, two divisions have a last place team with a better record than Tampa, but how can you blame TB for losing in this division. They hung tough vs many AL East teams until the end. Here's an interesting look at some numbers: Record vs AL East: only 6 AL teams have a winning record vs the AL East... .600 42-28 BOS .594 19-13 SEA .559 19-15 DET .552 16-13 CWS .529 37-33 TOR .514 36-34 BAL

Well said. I think that sometimes people read into small samples sizes way more than level-headed GMs do. It may take longer for Moncada to win any FT role on this team than many of us thought or hoped, but for sure, Sox management still is believing he is going to be FT'er on this team before too long. I have not ruled him out of an OF'er slot. We have 3 OF'ers (B, B & that all can play CF. So many teams are asking for JBJ. I do not want to trade him, but it could happen eventually. The first option, in my opinion, is that Moncada will be given every chance to win the 3B job. He will be watched closely at 3B in winter ball. he will play a lot of 3B in ST'ing, and he'll probably need more time at 3B at AAA to start the 2017 season. There won't be time to try him in LF, until the 3B job is solved.

ERA- takes into account park and opponent. Porcello leads Kluber.

What closer will come to the Sox knowing Kimbrel is the closer? If we tell Jansen or Chapman they will close, the following day Kimbrel will demand a trade.

Before we traded for Kimbrel, I suggested we choose either Buchholz or Kelly as a candidate for closer. Obviously, the trade put that idea to bed, but using both in the pen did become a reality. Both actually have done very well. I do think Kelly deserved a long look as a starter in April due to what he did at the end of 2015, but I hope he likes his new role and grows into it. He has tremendous stuff. As a RP'er he doesn't have to pace himself.

I like Hernandez more than most. I think he's close to being better than Holt and Hill at 3B. I'd take him over Holt and Marrero at SS. I'd put him behind Holt and Moncada at 2B. I doubt he can ever be a legitimate FT 3B on a contender, but it is not unreasonable to think he could develop into one shortly. That being said, I have very little faith in Shaw as a FT 3Bman next year. Hill will be gone (thankfully). Holt is not a FT position player, in my mind, and certainly not at 3B. His play in 2014 was part of the reason we decided to sign Pablo in the first place. I am not counting on one inning from Papblo next year, but I am far from counting him out as well. We have no legitimate 3B man, so all hands on deck!

I think people's talk of knuckleballer's "volatility" and "inconsistency" is overblown. If you look at Price and Buch and ERod, all had horrible stretches this year as long or longer than Wright's, but Wright and Wake before have been singled our more often as being untrustworthy. All pitcher's go through good and bad stretches (except Porcello this year--all good). I'll take Wright's 2016 season 10 times more please (without the injury), and his total body of work this year blows away any other starter besides Porcello and Price. Just because he had a bad streak before the LAD game does not mean he had lost it for the remaining season.

I never get why K's are viewed as highly as WHIP and ERA-. Porcello's last start wasn't as good as most others, but his FIP improves and his ERA- and WHIP got worse. I get why people want a park and defense independent number, but it's just one small piece in the formula for determining who has done the best.

All you can ask is to try and have the best team on paper heading into the playoffs playing well on somewhat healthy. I like where we are right now. It's where I thought we'd be.

So sad. Prayers to his family. Rest in peace Jose.

Well, actually if you read the opening post of this thread, it's more about 2017. Really, this thread is about all things to do with the Sox, with emphasis on 2016. I've been in Cancun for a couple days, so I'll have to watch the last 2 games when I get home tomorrow. Nice to see the streak is still alive!