moonslav59

While I totally agree we need a very solid starting pitcher to realistically be a top contender, I think using starter ERA is misleading. We play in a hitter's park. Our starter ERA - is 104, which is not very good at all, but it places us 14th not 19th. 6th in the AL. Our WHIP by starters places us in the same place- 14th and 6th. It's going to be costly, but if we want to win this year, I feel we'll need a quality SP'er.

Thanks for the summary. I do think we need to look beyond just this year, and I realize getting a 23 or 25 year old is inherently riskier, but I think we need to look young not old, and as long as the kid is better than what we have right now, it may also be enough to get us over the hump this year. In theory, I'd like a very promising, young but ML ready SP'er and a veteran RP'er doing well this year.

I'm pretty happy with Young and his .915 OPS in LF. Although he is more of a platoon player, I think once Swihart gets back, we'll be more than fine in left. (Note: Young has actually faced more RHPs than LHPs this year and still is over .900!)

Well, the weird thing is Shaw wasn't "getting the job done" before he got called up last year. He was actually doing kinds badly the first half of 2015, and his numbers at AA and AAA were not that impressive, especially for a 1B/3Bman.

The kid deserves a longer look.

Would you give Dubon and Lakins?

Career 46% CS% is the best we;ve seen from a Sox catcher in I don't know how long. Let's hope he returns to form after his surgery. I think he was at 38% in the minors.

We have enough guys in the OF already, and when Holt returns, I can't see Brentz ever getting a look, even if he was hitting .375 at AAA.

HanRam has a much longer history of success. Shaw's previous history before coming up last year was up and down and sub .790 in the minors for 2-3 years. Also, it's been much longer than a week. Shaw's OPS over the last 28 days is .535. That's 4 weeks. Before those 4 weeks, he went 1 for 8 in the previous 2 games, so it's really been a 30 day slump. At least I hope it's just a slump.

I'm pretty sue multiple teams would have interest in acquiring Brentz when he is DFA'd, but I'm not sure I'd go as far as saying they'd be "licking their chops". If that were the case, they'd probably be calling and asking about a trade.

I certainly have a better feeling about Espinoza than anyone else on the list above, but I do believe Kelly reached the top 25 in baseball America. The Padres obviously liked him a lot, so maybe hindsight is being applied here. Barnes and TBall ere drafted in the top 20. I think it might be unfair to compare Espinoza to these guys as our scouts have changed over the years, and he was an international signing not a draft pick. I really think he's going to be a very good to great starter someday. He's just so damn far away from MLB.

Would anyone trade these players to the Phillies for Aaron Nola and Jerad Eickoff: Swihart Devers' 3 from: Kopech Owens Johnson Lakins Dubon

Here's a list of the top qualifying pitchers by ERA- since the start of 2015: Arrieta Kershaw Greinke Chatwood G Cole Lackey deGrom Maeda Bumgarner Price Estrada Lester Syndergaard Scherzer Cueto Quintana Salazar Sale Lynn Keuchel Tanaka C Martinez J Hammel C Hamels Burnett S Gray F Hernandez Harvey Odorizzi Volquez Here's a list of 27 or younger starters with 100+ IP since 2015: Kershaw Keuchel S Matz J Fernandez deGrom Cole Bumgarner Syndergaard Qunitana Salazar Eickoff Sale Stasburg Tanaka C Mart Nola Aaron Sanchez Joe Ross Gray MCCullers Harvey Erasmo Ramirez Odorizzi Martin Perez D Pomeranz Archer Finnegan K Hendricks R Ray S Miller K Gibson A Heaney Teheran N Karns C Rodon M Leake G Richards Stroman N Martinez R Iglesias H Santiago Bolsinger Eduardo Rodrigues Wacha A Conley B Anderson J Nelson DeSclafani These are all at a 99 or lower ERA- since the start of 2015.

I actually thought he made routine plays in the hole look tougher.

As much as I've dissed Brentz over the years, I could see him going to another team and having a few stretches of goodness.

I'm open to trading anyone for a great young SP'er with 4+ years of team control at a reasonable contractual cost, and I agree on Moncada. To me, our greatest positional need going forward might be 3B or 1B with LF not too far behind. Moncada could probably do fine at any of those three spots. Benintendi is an OF'er only. I want someone truly great to give up one of our top three, but I'm also willing to include Swihart and/or Devers plus lesser prospects to get the best.

Yeah, but they only pitch 50-65 innings a year. I realize it takes a different routine and mentality to be a closer, so I'm not saying I felt confident it would work out very well, but I felt maybe a chance of pace might help keep them healthier. Both Buch and Kelly have shown the nasty stuff a closer needs to be great, so to me, it was all about their mindset and ability to stay healthy.

It seems like there used to be 3-5 teams each year in a long term rebuild mode. With parity the way it is now, teams can go from last to championship and back to last again in a 3 year period (Care to guess what team that was?), it's just not the case anymore. I just don't know, if even a team like the Phillies would trade a more known quality young pitcher for a pitcher way off in the horizon. Of course adding Swihart makes that deal a no brainer for Philly, but it's too much for us to give up for Nola. I confess, I'm no expert on Nola's potential, so I'd have to learn more about him, before suggesting that deal.

I'm surprised Brentz is still on the 40-man roster.

While I agree, our system has not been even decent at producing top quality pitchers- even the ones rated highly by national services. There's a part of me that has begun to just not listen to any hype about our pitching prospects, I realize we haven't had a prospect ranked as highly as Espinoza in quite some time, but he's so damn young and far from a MLB mound. I'm not saying I want to trade him, but I do wonder... Here's a list of our highest ranked pitching prospects on soxprospects.com: 2016: 3 Espinoza 2015: 1 ERod (not from our system), 3 Owens, 5 Johnson 2014: 2 Owens, 4 Webster (not from our system), 5 Ranaudo 2013: 3 Barnes, 4 Owens, 5 de la Rosa 2012: 2 Barnes, 2 Ranaudo 2011: 2 Ranaudo, 3 Doubront, 5 Pimental 2009: 1 Kelly, 2 Bowden, 5 Tazawa 2008: 1 Masterson, 2 Bowden, 5 Kelly Then, there's recent higher draft picks Kopech 33, T Ball 7, Stanki 45, Johnson 31, Light 37, Barnes 19, Owens 36, Ranaudo 39, Kelly 30, Price 45, Hagadone 55, Bard 28, K Johnson 39, C Clay 43, C Hansen 26, Buchholz 42, Bowden 47 and Abe Alvarez. I'm not trying to put Espinoza down. I think he's a gem, but part of me is saying "yeah right".

Last winter, before the Kimbrel trade, I suggested making Kelly or even Buch our closer. Wonder how that might have worked out.

I totally agree, and that's why I think he deserves this chance.

Nice preliminary list. My questions might be... 1) Who can we realistically get for Swihart, Devers and any three from Holt, Kelly, Owens, Johnson, Kopech, Lakins, Hernandez, Chavis, Basabe, Dubon, Light...? 2) Who could we get by adding Travis to the list? 3) Who could we get by adding Espinoza or Groome to the list?

Let's not put stats totally aside for now. Let's look at Christian's perceived greatest weakness: hitting. I'm not in any way trying to glorify his .547 OPS of 2016 or his career .587 OPS, but some context needs to be added. The state of catcher offense in MLB is very low right now. There are currently three teams with a catcher OPS below .547 and 5 teams with an OPS below Christian's career OPS. It's almost 5 as the Dodgers catcher OPS is .590. There are 12 teams with a catcher OPS below .630. That's over a third of all ML teams! Almost two thirds (19/30) of all MLB teams have a catcher OPS of .691 or lower! I don't see it as a glaring weakness to have a catcher with an OPS just below .600, but I also don't expect Vazquez to be there for too much longer.

What were his pitch-framing numbers in 2014?