moonslav59

If you give Theo the "lion's share" for 2013, maybe Dan D gets the lion's share for 2004.

Another reason we were rated so highly was because we had the top second half SP'er WAR and ERA- in MLB. The last few games of the season usually do not over-ride 3 months of great starting pitching. Our offense did not have as great a second half, but was still ranked highly.

Final Team WAR by Position: Overall: 38.7 Cubs 34.0 Red Sox 27.2 Guardians 27.1 Giants 25.3 Dodgers 23.2 Nats 23.0 Jays 21.5 Cards 21.3 Angels 21.1 Mariners Catcher: 15th @ 2.2 1B: 10th @ 4.1 2B: 10th @ 4.7 3B: 30th @0.8 SS: 6th @ 4.5 LF: 13th @ 2.0 CF: 5th @ 4.9 RF: 1st @ 7.4 DH: 2nd @ 4.5 According to WAR, our worst positions are 3B (by far), Catcher and LF. All the rest are above 15th (avg). 2nd Half: Overall: 3rd @ 12.4 C 16th 1B: 8th 2B: 10th SS: 18th 3B: 30th LF: 18th CF: 16th RF: 2nd DH: 9th SP: 7th @ 13.9 RP: 9th @ 4.8 Overall: 8th @ 18.7 (just behind the Guardians & Jays) 2nd Half: Overall: 1st @ 11.3 SP: 1st @ 9.0 RP: 13th @ 2.3

I haven't (for next year), and that's why I said "Kimbrel has been one of baseball's best closers over the past 5 years and longer. I'm still not convinced he has lost it." (meaning his closer role)

Regardless of how the playoffs end, the Sox did very well over the regular season. Many thought we had very little chance of winning the division. Many had given up on JBJ and were shocked to hear so many GMs were asking for him in trade. There's other examples of players beating expectations as is usually the case in a winning year. Here's a look at some numbers that are quite impressive: Out of 330 MLB players with over 220 PAs (about 11 per team), here's how our players placed in OPS: 2) Ortiz 1.021 21) Betts .897 38) Ramirez .866 47) Young .850 52) Leon .845 57) Bradley .835 69) Pedroia .825 93) Bogaerts .802 That's 8 guys in the top 93. Figuring 30 teams, the norm should be about 3. Losing Papi is going to hurt, but we'll still have 7 top 30% batters. (120 pitchers with 50+ IP- about 4 per team) 2nd Half Starter ERA- Rankings: 6) Porcello 59 25) Buchholz 73 27) Rodrigues 73 41) Price 81 85) Pomeranz 106 First Half ERA- Rankings: 6) Wright 61 8) Pomeranz 62 (w/SD) 41) Porcello 83 67) Price 98 133) Buchholz 143 I know this might be cherry-picking and wishful thinking, but if we could see more of the first half Wright and Pomernaz and the second half Porcello, Price, ERod and Buch, our rotation would be about as solid as can be. I'm not projecting that will be, but certainly there is more promise than we had before the season started.

I first heard about the postponement by seeing your thread title. I live in Texas, so it's not all over the TV and radio. I usually avoid the game thread, because I watch most games on tape delay. I, for one, am thankful, since I was able to take my dog out for a long walk knowing the game wasn't about to start.

Show me a closer with a weak ego, and I'll show you a lousy closer. You need to have an enormous ego to be a great closer. You don't have to be cocky or a braggart, but you have to have a complete confidence and belief in yourself to be a top closer. Kimbrel has been one of baseball's best closers over the past 5 years and longer. I'm still not convinced he has lost it. All pitchers have rough patches, and he did have an injury and recovery period during the year. I'm not expert on psychology or what is going on in Kimbrel's mind, but I'm pretty certain he believes he should be the closer on opening day next year. His overall career could overshadow his weak stretch this year. Whether it should is up for debate. I have no evidence to support my view here, except for maybe past histories of closers losing their roles, but I happen to think Kimbrel would not go quietly to a set-up role. I could be wrong. I've been wrong before. I'd hope that if we pick up a great closer, he'd be okay with the set-up role and excel at it. His brief history as a set-up man has not been pretty. It worrisome to me. BTW, I'm with S5 on the idea that Uehara should be our closer right now.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am. Not many closers have the mentality to not want to remain the closer.

So, we can come back with Porcello and Price game 4 & 5 on normal rest. Hmmm....

JF is going no where......DD just recently said he did a great job managing this year. I agree that JF is not going to get canned, but even if DD was considering a change, he'd still say what he said about JF. You can't really read into this all that much. Sometimes fans look for something that's not there. I'm not a big fan of JF but I don't believe he's the difference maker, good or bad. It's the players' game. Agreed. 100%.

Like the opposing idea that when he left a guy in when we were winning, and he got shelled, he was bashed for leaving the guy in too long as well?

The team had a couple of bad games. It's not because of lack of momentum. It's not because of lack of home field advantage. It's because they played badly. End of story. Our society has become obsessed with laying blame. Like every slump needs a reason- needs a person to pin it all on. We peaked a little too early. It happens. It's not over yet, because this team has shown it can turn around on a dime either way- to the good or the bad.

Aren't you leaving out the fact that it was Farrell that was at the helm for two last place finishes before this year?

If we get Turner, it would likely be for multwiple years, therebt blocking Moncada AND Devers. I'm fine with the idea, especially if it takes Moncada or Devers to pry Quintana away from the CWS. I'd love to get Jansen or Melancon, but Kimbrel will pout.

The reasons why Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, David Robertson, Jose Abreu and Todd Frazier would be attractive trade targets for the Red Sox are the same reasons why the White Sox should build a contending team around them. They suck, except the guys I want... LOL.

They also have some awful contracts and may give up some good talent for less in return, if the team takes Shields off their hands. Here's their big contracts: Shields $44M/2 ($18.75M luxury tax hit) Eaton: $38.4M/5 ($4.7M luxury) Sale: $38M/3 ($6.5M luxury) Qunitana: $37.85M/4 ($4.2M luxury) Abreu: $34M/3 ($11.3M luxury) Robertson: $25M/2 ($11.5M luxury) Cabrera $15M/1 ($14M) Frazier: Last arb year One very big asset Quintana and Sale have to a team like the Sox is the very low luxury tax hit they have attached to their contracts. With the Sox straddling the line on a %50 tax rate next year, picking up one of these aces would be a big plus in more than one way. It's almost shocking how the White Sox appear to have several players that match right up with just about every high need the Sox have: Ace: Quintana or Sale Closer/top set-up man: Robertson 3B short term solution: Frazier 1B (move HanRam to DH): Abreu Assuming Frazier wins a $10M arb, the luxury tax cost for all five of these players combined would only be $43.5M. That's less than $9M each! It makes me feel like offering the whole farm for all of them! We could even afford to take on Shields' contract to lessen the return needed. That would up the luxury hit to $60M, but Frazier would be gone after 1 year and Shields and Robertson after 2 years. I'm not saying I'm for this idea, but would the CWS take this for all 5 plus Shields? JBJ, Wright, Pomeranz, Shaw, Swihart, Moncada, Kopech, Travis, Owens, Johnson. Maybe we could get by keeping Devers, Travis & Groome for some semblance of a farm remaining.

Here's how I see our 2017 depth chart at each position. I am placing some players at multiple positions, if they are better than whatever else we have there. SP: Porcello, Price, ERod, Wright, Pomeranz, Buchholz (assuming option given) Kelly, Elias, Owens, Johnson, Haley, Cuevas, Kopech (not 2017: Groome) RP: Kimbrel, (Buchholz, Pomeranz or Wright), Smith, Kelly, Ross, Barnes, Hembree Abad, Scott, Workman, Ramirez, Martin, Jerez C: Leon, Vazquez, Swihart, Holaday, Romanski, Butler 1B: Ramirez, Shaw, Swihart, Pablo, Holt, Travis, Longhi (not 2017: Ockimey) 2B: Pedroia, Betts, Moncada, Holt, Hernandez, Marrero (not 2017: Dubon) SS: Bogaerts, Hernandez, Holt, Marrero (not 2017: Dubon) 3B: Bogaerts, Shaw, Moncada, Holt, Hernandez, Pablo, Rutledge, (Swihart?), (not 2017: Devers) LF: Betts, Benintendi, Young, Bradley, Swihart, Holt (not 2017: Basabe) CF: Betts, Bradley, Benintendi, Young, Holt RF: Betts, Bradley, Benintendi, Young, Holt, Swihart DH: Ramirez, Young, Moncada, Pablo, Castillo, Witte

Well, they did have the best second half numbers in the AL.

They have attitude issues beyond even the Sale mess. I'm not saying the GM will decide to reboot, but I think they should.

The White Sox should blow up their whole team and go for a total rebuild. They have some great trading chips (Sale, Quintana, Robertson, Abreu, and Frazier), but they have way too many holes to plug and be competitive.. It might be hard for them to realize this. We happen to need players at all 5 of these players' positions.

What I remember most about that series was the decision to use VMart over VTek as Lester's personal catcher. Yeah, Buch gave us 5 good IP and bard went 2 scoreless innings, then the roof caved in. Payback for the Hendu HR, I guess. Wagner and Papelbon let up 5 runs in 1.2 innings, and we lost 7-6.

My point was that even if he was a top 3 closer in the game, he was being paid FA money, so why give up 2 good prospects? We could have waited a year and got Jansen or Chapman and saved the kids for a another trade. Until now, I have never used Kimbrel's disappointing 2016 performance as an argument against the trade, but his performance has certainly brought more posters over to my side.

Kimbrel's contract was the main reason I hated the trade. We gave up 3 nice prospects for a RP'er! Then, the RP'er we got was being paid close to FA market money. I know we needed a closer, but the deal was just plain wrong. (I know- I've beaten the dead horse often.)

Agreed, but these guys have egos bigger than their contracts.