moonslav59

IMO, JH and Bloom were always looking at 2023 or 2024 as being about the time we could get highly competitive. It ta3-5 years to start seeing results from buildi ng up a farm. They thought, by spending near the limit, they could stay competitive in the rebuilding year. They missed badly in '20 and '22. There is no doubt, they missed. I do not think they went all in for 2021 or 2022. 2023 remains to be seen. Just my opinion.

Why not suggest what you think could be done? You have $60M to spend and Bogey and Devers might cost $50-55M. How can any GM make us better by either keeping one or both or my keeping neither. IMO, the only way is for... (probably 2 or more are needed) 1. JH to increase spending 2. Trade some or most of the top prospects 3. Count on prospects to fill key role and they come through 4. Expect the GM to find 6+ Schreibers and Refsnyders this winter IMO, the team has chosen #3 and #4 and may do #1 sporadically, when they feel we are close enough to be just 1-2 key players from a great chance at a ring. Again, it's just my opinion. I have suggested some plans that might work, like maybe trading Casas for a solid SP'er and then signing a cheap 1B/DH on a 1 year deal. I've suggested maybe paying less for Swanson or K Wong, instead of Bogey, so we can spend more on filling other wide open slots. Again, where am even hinting at us not getting worse, if we let Bogey and or Devers go? I've NEVER said anything close to that. My point is, AGAIN, bringing them back may just barely keep us even for a few years, but their cost will either force JH to spend more than he has shown he is willing to do, as in staying over the tax line for 3 or more years, or we will not be able to back-fill high need areas with expensive FAs. Other options are to get help from the farm, which has produced Houck, Crawford, Duran, Dalbec and worse for over 5 years or to trade much or the farm, like DD did, and end up where we are no, 4-5 years from now. What's your plan? I missed another option, I'd gladly hear it.

The Red Sox are my team. I say "we" to mean the Red Sox, just like people say, "I hope we beat the Yankees, tonight." I'm not sure why you pick apart every word I say, but I've been accused of doing the same, so...

I did not say anyone said it.

I know. I don't understand why you have to keep saying, "I have said this many times" and then say it one more time. I know you are very much about the "here and now," and most people are. I think owners and GMs think about more than one thing. That's just my minority opinion.

I already answered this. Will we improve, if all we can do is sign Bogey, Raffy and maybe one other significant player? Unless JH opens the wallter, we will not improve by JUST signing Bogey and Devers. If we plan on re-setting the tax in 2023 or 2024, how do we replace Nate, Wacha, JD and others while spending almost the whole winter spending budget on just staying even by bringing Bogey and Devers back? I think I know your answer- trade the farm away.

Where did I say Story wasn't going to help in 2022 or 2023? The signing did not go against improving long term was the point. No moves made went against 2024 and beyond, except the non moves at the deadline, and trading Groome, this year and A Ramires, last year, and most of all, not staying under the line. All these one year deals scream "REBUILD!" Also, I never said or implied they expected to suck in 2022 or 2023. I even specifically said JH allowed the Story signing because of "rumblings" to do something now. I specifically said he and fans expected much better than what we got this year (just not a ring.) Please don't jump on one statement and read more into it that you clearly know I don't believe is true. JH expected us to compete for the playoffs, this year. The Story signing was a big sign of that, but my point was the Story signing was also expected to help us longer term, as well, which was ultimately Bloom's top priority when signed. It clearly wasn't to win it all in 2020, and even 2021. Do you doubt this to be true? Do I need evidence to prove that?

Hosmer is not really a plus defender: he's just better than Dalbec/Cordero. I don't think we spend big at 1B, but since we also need a DH, maybe we go for a 1 year 1B/DH type. Maybe a guy like mancini, who can play corner OF in a pinch, and is apparently a great clubhouse guy might be a choice.

I understand your opinion. Mine is much different.

I did not say we'd improve by letting them go, but if we spend the entire winter budget on re-signing and extending Bogey and Deverss, and are forced to fill the shoes of Wacha, Nate, JD, Starhm, Hill and in some ways Vaz, will we improve? Keeping both and improving will requires some pretty significant added spending by JH, and that was my point. He may do it for a year or two, but I don't think he'll spend what most fans hopes he does.

They seemed to jump the gun on Ben, so there is a history that backs your point. Ben did win a ring, but those 3 last place finishes did him in. Bloom will have 2, after this year, although 2020 really should not count. The "fun" that 2021 brought us has not been enough to balance out the bad, despite the fact that we were clearly going through a rebuild on a highly restricted budget, especially before 2020 and to a large extent 2021, too. I think JH heard the rumblings and watched ticket sales drop, so he gave Bloom the okay to spend on Story. JH and most fans, including myself, expected a much better season than this- maybe not a WS appearance, but much better than this. I'm sure that frustrates JH as much as us, but I do think he realizes the plan was never to win it all, this year. Almost every move, including the Story signing has been designed for 2024 or beyond. Well, the non fire sale was one exception to that long term priority, but JH has to balance fan outrage over the here and now with long term success. IMO, the long term looks much brighter than it did after 2019 or even before 2019, but that's is something many or even most fans could care less about. There will always be some sort of disconnect on this.

I think the 4 rings will outweigh much of the anger, except for younger fans. Also, he won't stop being Daddy Warbucks by paying Bogey and Devers. We'll still have a top 5 budget, but we won't be able to fill all the other holes with good enough talent to win a ring, unless the farm comes through. Think about it: how is re-signing Bogey and Devers a step towards improving the team? It may or may not even keep us even. I'm not against extending Devers, and I think Henry will keep spending near the tax line, every year, so that's why I don't think souring on JH can ever be a logical position for fans to take- not that all fans are logical. When we let Betts go, I think fans assumed we'd spend the same and replace him, somehow- perhaps by upgrading 3-4 positions. That hasn't really happened, yet. The Story signing didn't come close to replacing Betts. Now, we face losing Bogey. I can't see JH being "tight," this winter.

15 games left and 9 wins from 82. It's not looking like we can make it, but if we do or come close, we might do some playoff spoiling for some AL East teams that have beaten our asses, all year. 4 @ NYY (We are 6-9 v NYY) 4 v BAL (7-8) 3 @ TOR (3-13) 3 v TBR (4-12) We play 'em all.

I'd rather have 2 decades with 4 rings and 6 last place finishes than 3 decades with a mess of 2nd place finishes, barely any last place finishes and no rings. Maybe it's the price we have to pay to cycle into a ring every 3-6 years.

He doesn't do that very often, though.

That he goes, of that if he goes it has to be the Mets?

That does seem to force JH to spend more, when his bottom line shrinks.

Some will, but many will just blame the GM and coach for the losing- not the tight budget due to many top heavy player salaries.

They'll care (not about finances), if JH tightens the belt and we can't fill holes due to too many big contracts and can't win rings anymore. They'll just blame the coach and GM, over and over.

It does suck. I agree. I'm just saying we really might not be as bad as one might think a "last place team" is. Hell, we might be in the division hunt had we been in the AL Central and not had to play the ALE, so much. Again, that's not making excuses or sugar coating a s***** year, but I don't think we are as bad as our record suggests we are. We still have a good core to work with but a lot of big hole and shoes to fill, this winter.

He pitched okay for 4 and 2/3rds, but I'm not too hopeful he ends up a plus. Maybe his best role might be a 2-3 inning, low to medium leverage pitcher. I see many other players I'd look to trade or DFA before him.

Before tonight, we'd have been in third place in 3 divisions and 4th in 2 others, including 0.5 behind MN for 3rd in 4 divisions, and that's not even counting any schedule adjustments being in any division except the AL East.

Two doubles do not equal a home run.

V Santos pitched a gem, tonight (7 IP 3H 0 ER 1BB 8K,) but Dhern came in for the 8th and gave it away. Gotta think DHern is traded or DFA'd, this winter. The O was shut down, but EValdez went 2-3 with a BB.

Sounds about right. Both are too high for my liking, but $176M/7 would not bother me, at all. I think gets $200M/8 to $208M/8. He might get $220/9 from some desperate GM.