moonslav59

Double NOPE!

At least we're finding out who not to bring back, next year.

Murphy got shelled at AAA. (3Ip 7 ER) Casas is a homer short of a cycle and may get up in the 9th. Koss is 3 for 4 in AA. Hickey's 4th HR at A+ was a 3-run job. In A ball, Simas went 3-4, Miller & Meredith 2-4. Paulino 2-5 w a 2B.

Sorry. My bad.

The player budget is public knowledge. The 2019 team was barely over .500 and Bloom was forced to cut $60M from that budget and then face raising arb costs and high priced DD guys going on the IL or falling off a cliff, but no, all that matters is the budget of 2019 is close to 2022's. Got it.

It's really that simple? I'll keep it short. The 2019 team had 16 more losses than this team, and they spent more. (This makes as much sense as your point.)

The Wink Man needs to start showing he belongs in the bigs. He started out okay, but he needs to make some adjustments to the adjustments hitters made on him. Does he have what it takes? I hope so.

Maybe I'm confusing posters, but I thought there was a time I tried to talk notin out of wanting Arroyo DFA'd. Maybe it was someone else.

Yes, and that noncompetitive team that DD handed Bloom after 2019 was then forced to cut $60M from the 2019 budget. Somehow, Bloom was expected to create a winner out of that. True, the team added about $23M to the 2021 team, but much of that was arb raises to inherited players nearing the end of their arb years. It wasn't new spending handed to Bloom. Bloom did have about $40M to spend for the 2021 team, but take a look at the 26 and 40 man roster he had to improve upon. I counted close to 10 key 26 man roster slots to fill while also trying to slowly improve the depth of the 40 man, in case of injuries and as a way to improve the longer term outlook.

I'm pretty sure we all agree Bloom was given a high priority task of rebuilding the farm system as quickly as possible, and without seriously damaging the chances of the current team staying competitive or at least have the perception of being competitive or entertaining. Of course, the results of the farm building won't be known for quite some time, and those who seem to be defending Bloom more than bashing him, know that. Nobody has proclaimed Bloom has fixed the farm as far as it needs to be fixed. Nobody is sure the players he has acquired will amount to more than squat, but all we can expect and hope for as fans, concerning the farm is that we seem to have more quality and quantity of promising players than we had before. I like the road Bloom is taking, but I'm not going to say he has been a success, just yet. The Whitlock addition, which was technically a farm addition was a great start, but none of the prospects acquired via trades have done anything in the bigs, yet. Only a few (Downs, Wong, Wink, Seabold) have even seen limited time in the bigs, so far. It's way to early to make any final judgement on the farm-building aspect of Bloom's tenure as the Sox GM. The budget priority is a bit easier to judge, and there seems to be much disagreement about even some of the most basic facts, like was there a limited budget in 2020 and 2021, or even 2022. Much of the longer term contracts- for good or bad are ending, this winter, and the only longer term deal added was Story. I happen to think our finances are better looking in 2023 than they were after 2019. I've yet to hear a Bloom basher say anything convincing about that looking worse. The last, but likely not the least important priority was to put a competitive team on the field during the rebuild. You can count 2020, if you want, and say Bloom is 1-2, but I see him as being 1-1 or 1-1-1. So, IMO, he looks good on farm building, but the jury is still out. He looks good on prepping the budget for 2023 and beyond, but I guess that can be viewed as the jury still being out, until we see what he spends, this winter. I am fine with saying the jury is out, here, too. He looks to be about even in season competitiveness record, but I can see how those who view recency above all else, saying he's a failure, here, or those who choose to count 2020 in the standings thinking the same way. Call me an apologist or whatever, but I think Bloom was given some top priorities that maybe don't jive with some fans, and IMO his budgets have been severely limited until March of 2022. That also doesn't jive with those who think and say, Henry can spend as much as he wants, but that is not part of Bloom's reality. JH did not give him an open wallet. That's not an excuse: it's reality. IMO, Bloom is going to be given a chance to show what he's got, this winter. It will almost certainly seal his legacy as a Sox GM. Depending on how well the 2023 team does and how we look going forward, maybe Bloom's days are numbered. If he makes a few more (too many more) JBJ-type trades and Diekman signings, I'll be calling for a change, too, but I've seen a lot of moves I like (Whitlock, Pivetta, Wacha, Schreiber, Refsnyder, Strahm, Kike, German) and some we all may end up liking, if some of his prospects acquired pan out to think he deserves another winter at the helm.

+ Nate's contract in 2019. The other thing is the point about Bloom inheriting Betts, Bogey, Devers, Beni and others is that when DD had them they were pre-arb and early arb-cost players. By the time Bloom took over, their costs were much higher, while at the same time, the budget was slashed deeply from 2019 to 2020 and winter spending was severely limited before 2021, too. Again, some context is needed.

On farm building, yes. On ridding the budget of much of the dead money, yes. On improving the MLB roster from 2020 to 2022, yes. On the 2022 team results, nobody is saying that, except your strawman.

2022 MLB team > 2020 MLB team 2022 Farm >>> 2020 Farm 2022/2023 less dead money on the books> 2020 dead money totals Let's gloss over the facts a little, right? 2020 saw the worst winning% since 1964 (.400). 2020's .492 winning % is about the Sox 40th worst record of all time and 10th worst since 1965. .400 in 2020 .426 in 2012 .438 in 2014 .481 in 2015 It's nothing to brag about, for sure, but playing in the toughest division in MLB with all the injuries and declines by virtually every returning vet, most of whom are DD guys, .492 is not all that horrific.

When you look at how many of the top IP pitchers from 2021 dropped in ERA-, it's a wonder we are almost at .500: Listed by most IP in 2021 82>102 Nate 104>56 ERod>Wacha 99>104 Pivetta 107>115 Richards>Hill 104 Perez> 127 Wink & 126 Crawford 43>74 Whitlock 77>77 Houck 92>83 Ottavino>Schreiber 83>154 Barnes 67>77 Sawamura 75>83 Taylor>Strahm 69>78 Sale 74>529 DHern 128>108 PValdez 132 Andriese> 103Diekman 79>143Robles 107>128 Davis 33>146 Brasier Phillips Valdez was the only returning pitcher to improve on his ERA- EVERY OTHER RETURNING PITCHER GOT WORSE (HOUCK THE SAME)!!!! (Some, by a whole lot.) The other improvements were all Bloom additions improving on last year's pitchers. Hmmm....

Mind-boggling point.

You honestly think inheriting Price was something Bloom could have gotten more out of? He saved $16M a year on a guy that pitched 109 innings with LA in 3 years at a 118 ERA+. "Even to this day..." lmao! Price is used as the poster boy for how the end of long term contracts often work out, and it so happened the end of his contract was not during DD's reign, but Blooms. Can you tell me how Bloom was expected to cut the 2019 budget as much as he did and produce a winner? Can you try to give some specifics? He didn't tell JH he wanted massive budget cuts.

It's also possible to love almost all DD's trades and still realize the farm has produced very little since 2011, except the guys we traded for and whose team control have just about all run out or will, this winter. (Sale was extended.) The farm DD left has ended up looking better than many felt it would be, and some of those who claimed he "ruined the farm" and some of us who took it for what it was have said so. The fact is, next year, we will have Houck and then guys like Dalbec, Duran and a few others from the pre-Bloom farm as helpful players in 2023 and beyond. Of course, there is still time for many promising pre-Bloom players to make their mark, like Casas, Mata, Bello Rafael and others, but we are constantly told not to value the farm until they actually do something or get us something in trade. Maybe we will see Bloom use the farm in the way it was meant to be, which isn't just through trades, but might very well need one or two to get back on top. DD kept Devers and a few others, and deserves a ton of credit for that. He didn't trade the whole farm away, as some hyperbolic posters claim. I'm not sure it was the healthy balance you and others seem to make it out to be, but as it turned out only a few prospects he gave up have done well or very well, and the 3 first place finishes and 2018 amazing season made living through the following down years worth it, to me. The list of young and cost-controlled players and prospects that Theo left Ben, and Ben left DD far outshines the list DD left Bloom. I really have no problem with that, as it was worth it, but let's not sugarcoat what Bloom got. He got a budget that demanded immediate heavy slashing. He got a bunch of high-priced players than spent more time on the IL or watching their numbers decline than adding value. He got a farm that ended up being better than expected, but has still only given him Houck in his 3 years at the helm. These are facts not excuses.

Funny you mentioned Price and Sale his and their mega contracts as something not a mess. ERod turned into a mess very quickly through no fault of Bloom. (Missed 2020, and thank God Bloom did not bring him back after his control ended.) Plus, you named 11 names. The other 15 sucked or their time was up, and Bloom was given a negative budget sheet to fill those slots. The oversimp0lification of the state of the team after 2019 is a blind spot for many Bloom bashers.

Last year, the Sox had 5 starters with over 22 GS'd (3 over 30)> 32 Nate 124 ERA+ 31 ERod 98 31 Pivetta 102 22 Richards 95 22 M Perez 98 With 40 games to go, Pivetta should reach 30-31 GSd, but probably nobody else reaches 22, except maybe Hill, who has 18, now. 25 Pivetta 98 18 Eovaldi 100 18 Hill 89 15 Wacha 183 12 Wink 80 10 Crawford 81 9 Whitlock 138 4 Houck 133 ERA- from 2021 to 2022 (Red= Improved) 33 Brasier> 146 43 Whitlock> 74 67 Sawamura> 77 69 Sale> 78 74 DHern> 529 77 Houck> 77 79 Robles> 143 82 Eovaldi> 102 83 Barnes> 154 99 Pivetta> 104 107 Davis> 128 128 Valdez> 108 Changes: 104 ERod>>>56 Wacha 75 Taylor>>>58 Schreiber 92 Ottavino>>> 83 Strahm 109 Workman>>> 103 Diekman 104 M Perez>>> 127 Winckowski 107 Richards>>> 115 Hill 132 Andriese>>> 126 Crawford

Also seeing time on the IL: Houck, Nate, Strahm, Bello, Danish and others. The list of all season healthy pitchers is much shorter: Pivetta Crawford Davis Sawamura

Back injury. ETAs: Bello (Groin) & Danish (Forearm)- late August Story (Hand) & Hosmer (Back)- early September Nate (Shoulder) & Houck (Back)- mid September Sale (Wrist), Paxton (Elbow) & Taylor (Back)- ????

How's this for a blueprint to a winning 2023 season? BTV accepted this as a "Moderate overpay" by the Sox: Bello & Yorke to MIA for Pablo Lopez (2 yrs of control) & Jacob Stallings (2 yrs of control for the catcher the Sox tried to acquire, last winter) QO accepted: Michael Wacha Sign: SS: Dansby Swanson CF: Enrique Hernandez RF: Brandon Nimmo RP: Michael Fulmer RP: Matt Strahm 1. Nimmo RF 2. Swanson SS 3. Devers 3B 4. Story 2B 5. Verdugo LF 6. Hernandez CF 7. EValdez/Arroyo/Hosmer/Dalbec DH/Bench 8. Hosmer/Casas/Dalbec 1B 9. Stallings/McGuire C SP1 Lopez SP2 Sale/Paxton SP3 Wacha SP4 Pivetta SP5 (Sale/Paxton/Whitlock) Crawford/Winckowski/Seabold/Mata/Walter/Murphy Closer: Houck RP2: Whitlock (SP?) RP3: Schreiber RP4: Fulmer RP5: Strahm RP6: Barnes RP7: Brasier/Davis/German/ (any converted SP'er)

So much for agreeing to disagree. Lastwordism always gets in the way.

Losing seems to bring out the best in all of us!

As great as Story looked on defense at 2B, this year, despite that game losing error early on, I'm fine with keeping him at 2B, but it would be cheaper to find a decent 2Bman than SS, this winter. I'd like to see us sign Swanson. I'm not sold on Anderson but maybe could be convinced. I doubt we go large enough to get Bogey, Correa or Turner.