moonslav59

SP's has Theo Denlinger on the 2024 Rule 5 Eligibility List.

My Mom is telling me it's going down to 50 below, wind chill, tonight. I'm glad I'm outta there, this time of year!

You got that right. Even Theo was getting more and more complaining, especially after 2007.

Where do you guess soxprospects.com will place Denlinger in their top 60? (German was 22nd and ahead of Kelly at 24th.)

...and then sign with a team who has an owner willing to spend, spend and spend some more.

No, they weren't.

It's the most important thing to all. Baseball is never a sure bet, even with know players. Much of our expectations are built upon speculation and hopes, even for vets. Sure;y, they are easier to have faith in, but we've seen how almost a whole group of vets can decline or have up years, all at the same time, and make or break a season. Prospects are much more speculative, but as a GM, you try your best to build up the farm. While many guesses go wrong, these ranking services to get more right than some random generator does, so they do pull some weight. There are examples of flops and surprises, everywhere. I'm just saying, I'd prefer to look at our farm and see good things happening, and other people seeing the same thing I'm seeing, than having most of the experts saying our prospects do not look to promising. Of course, any of our kids can end up being let-downs, but I like our quality and quantity for the first time in a very long time. I know I can be disappointed, but I don't think I'm being optimistic for no reason. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling you are choosing to be pessimistic with no real supporting evidence, except Law.

I'll be honest: I expected better and think we are better than #14, but we clearly look better than 3, 4, 5... years ago,

GMs used to give a lot more for 2 month rentals, so I think the proportions have changed.

I remember thinking, at the time, maybe we could have gotten Quintana with Sale, had we included Espinoza and more. Q had more years of control than Sale, too.

Theo lived off comp picks, too.

YES! Guerra really jumps out as a WTF!

Ok. Poor choice of words. It's hard to squander something that was not all that great, and we got good to great returns on just about every good player traded. There are a few players doing okay, today, but hardly any DD trades are ones we wish we had back.

This list is a bit deceiving, because it gives the highest ranking each prospect DD traded reached before being traded. Many had already fallen by the time they were traded. Many fell off a cliff shortly after being traded. 1 Moncada 1 Swihart 3 Margot 3 Espinoza 5 Kopech 5 Beeks 6 Guerra 7 Basabe 9 Dubon 9. S Travis 11 Shaun Anderson 12 Wendell Rijo 13 Logan Allen 14 Pat Light 17 Buttrey 17 Jerez 18. Basabe II 20 Nogosek 21 Noe Ramirez

Indeed. Nobody disagrees with this, but some of us choose to feel better about having a higher ranking than before. Some of us latch onto the one and only service who gives us a poor ranking and holds up that banner. We choose our positions of optimism or pessimism.

The funny thing was, Shaw was not even a prospect when traded, so for a while the biggest loss was not even from the DD farm. The farm he inherited was overrated, and he used that aspect to a great advantage by getting back players for highly regarded prospects that mostly crapped out or got hurt. He deserves kudos for all that. That being said, he still traded 20 prospects and was here for and left behind parts of that 5 year stretch from Devers to Casas, where only Houck amounted to anything enar substantial.

I never had a problem with DD, but I am also willing to accept the consequences of the whole ball of wax he brought to the team and our team's history. I do not think he went overboard. I'm glad he did what he did. One side-effect was the 5 year lull with not good prospects, except Houck. That was not all on DD, either. The farm he inherited was not deep and was overrated. He kept the right guys and added some very promising players, but he has to be given partial blame for the state of the farm and budget he left behind. Again, to me, it was all worth it, but there was a price to pay, and we're paying it now. I don't "blame" DD, because I like what he did. I even liked the Sale extension, at the time, so I refrain from bashing him for it, but it has to be viewed as weighing factor when judging Bloom and the cards he was handed. Would Bloom be bashed as much had DD kept Betts, instead of Sale and extended Bogey with no opt out? It's hard to know.

That's pretty much exactly what I said. He squandered much of a farm that was over-rated. He kept the best ones and added some surprisingly promising prospects with some low picks and restricted IFA situations. That does not mean trading 20 high or once highly rated prospects did not happen.

Agreed. Would you say this farm is the best since Ben or Theo?

DD traded 20 prospects who had once been top 20 in the system. The fact that many never came close to expectations or had dropped in the rankings before being traded, does not take away from the fact that a ton of prospects were traded. Thankfully, he kept the one blue-chipper, Devers. I think only Matt Barnes was a prospect DD inherited and was still around when he left. I could be wrong, here. Players he added through the draft and IFA are shockingly promising: Houck & Crawford (graduated) Casas Murphy Rafaela Mata Wikelman Paulino Walter Perales

Ben might still be here had he signed Scherzer and not Pablito & HRam.

Yup, and Travis Shaw kinda sucked for us, then did better after the trade. Kinda like Downs was a decent prospect when we traded for him, but sucked for the Sox.

All true, and if dumping Bloom makes us better or would make us better, I'd be in the front of the line. The farm building aspect is all speculation, as it always has been. It looks good on paper to almost everyone but Law & his followers, but we all know there are countless examples of good farms not ending up so good, and vice versa. The DD farm situation is a prime example. Most felt he inherited a great farm and squandered it, but the ring won made it worth it. When you go back and look, many of the "studs" he traded away fizzled or got hurt, He kept the right one, in Devers, but the 5 year lull in farm help is a big reason for the team's decline. Then, DD was slammed for handing Bloom an empty and unpromising farm, but we've seen some promise nobody felt was possible. Half our best prospects and recent grads are DD's prospects. It does show, it's hard to know, but I feel better knowing many experts feel our farm has greatly improved. It's my biggest reason for having an optimistic view about the team and its direction.

Certainly true. That doesn't mean thinking there were several more options for trading Betts with half-Price out there has merit. Conflating that specific trade with JH could have spent more, to me, it total BS thinking, but maybe that's just me. I know I'm often in the minority and can be ornery at time.

I don't think Bloom is as good as you think I feel he is. I end up defending him against specific assaults that have very little to do with him. You can continue to think there was another fork in the road, but for someone who poo-poo's speculation more than anyone, you sure do your fair share.