moonslav59

Does this also mean his 26 man roster requirement extends 15 days into 2024, like IL stints do?

$350M/11 on top of the Bogey deal. WOW! If they sign Soto, we'll get to see, up close and personal, if a team can sustain winning by having 3 studs paid like that on the same team, at the same time. (Allusions to Betts, Bogey and Devers.)

Are you sure about this? Why wouldn't someone have taken Ted Williams?

I'm very uncertain how anybody would have felt had they known he'd be made eligible. I am very certain, based on reading many articles from all over the place, back in November and early December, nobody thought Song was worth protectings and many didn't even mention him as a long shot. (I will say, many did not mention Hamilton, either, so how in touch are these guys writing these articles, is a point worth bringing up.) I honestly believe that anyone who knows much about baseball, would think a guy who hasn't thrown a pitch in 3 years and has a slight chance, at best, of even being eligible to pitch in 2023 should be chosen to take up a slot on the 40. Maybe I'm wrong, but I find it hard to believe anyone would have said yes, back then.

There was no need to add him to the 40, until he became Rule 5 eligible. In my understanding, based on what Baseball America wrote, once he became Rule 5 eligible, there was now danger of losing him, so they could have added him to the 40 in November, then immediately placed him on military leave, which would have opened up his 40 man slot for Brasier, Ort, Hamilton or Ward or Politi, in theory. They kick the can down the road, and if and when he become eligible, they then have to make a choice to trade, DFA or add him to the 40 and move someone else off it. Seems like doing this would have been the right choice, to me.

Yes, for all the reasons I mentioned. It's hard to imagine a single person, except DD, thinking his eligibility status would or probably would change between protection day and opening day or that even a slight chance made him worth grabbing )or protecting, in the Sox case.) The odds were very slim. Then, on top of that, skilled players are left unprotected by large numbers , per team, every year, because they are so far from the majors, nobody would keep a slot on the 26 for them, all year. Even guys like Paulino and Wikelman seem more ML ready than Song was. I find it hard to blame Bloom for not doing something that nobody else would have done. I'm not so sure, even if his status had changed last November, more than just a handful of people would have even mentioned him as a possibility of needing protection. Not pitching for 3 years, IMO, puts Song at a longer shot for ML readiness than even guys like Paulino and Wikelman, let alone guys like Wallace, Politi, Ward, Bonaci and Scott.

They knew more about TWard and Politi than anyone else, one would think, so maybe they saw- much less promise than some other team's scouts and GMs, but Song was such a unique case, it's hard to think they gave up on his "promise." DD is quoted as saying we felt Song was the best pitcher in the draft, when he was selected by the Sox. Maybe Bloom & Co. never shared that belief or promise. Let's wait and see, if that was a mistake, or not. Of all the 3 pitchers we lost to Rule 5, I'm guessing Song has the best chance to make an impact, but it might be 2-3+ years from now, and for another team altogether. I liked TWard and Politi, and certainly more than Brasier, Ort and Hamilton. I even liked Wallace and Wikelman more than those 3, but this Rule 5 draft is indeed a guessing game, in large part. If Ward or Politi due well, it will be a much clearer mistake on Bloom and his staff's behalf. They had all the time in the world to evaluate their skill level and progress.

There was always a chance his status would change, but nobody expected it to happen, and that is why his name was not even mentioned by many sites, including SPs. The last quote I posted from Bloom implies they would not have wanted to add him to the 40, even if he became eligible over the next year (starting in December,) Not seeing the trade value seems like a mistake. The could have added him, immediately put him on military leave to keep a 40 man roster slot open, and then trade him, if he ever became eligible.

I certainly believe rushing a player can be harmful, but I often think the effects are overblown and actually near negligible, in most cases. Maybe with studs like Bogey, this is true, but less skillful or mature young players, it's not true. As of now, there is no need to rush him, anyway, but if Duvall flounders or we have an OF injury, I'm not sure Refsnyder or Duran will last long as (capable) replacements. I'm not think Duran should be viewed as capable, right now. Refsnyder deserves a look, based on what he did, last year, but I'm not sure about who would be next in line. Tapia and others would need to be added to the 40. You are right, though, Rafaela can and just very well might "solve the problem," by himself. I'm getting super pumped up about so many current Sox players and prospects. I know I often harp on quality over quantity, but I am seeing more and more quality in all of our quantity, I'm beginning to wonder, if I've underestimated all the quality. I know many here think I've been overly optimistic, recently, so I may be just feeling the effects of spring fever, but this team is deep with quality and promise. I like where we are headed.

I just found this from blogging the Red Sox... According to Baseball America, the Red Sox could have added Song to their 40-man roster then placed him on the military service list, which would have made him ineligible for the Rule 5 Draft. By doing that, though, they would have been required to immediately add Song to the 40-man roster once he was eligible to pitch again. Bloom, for his part, explained why the Red Sox elected to not protect Song when speaking with reporters (including MassLive.com’s Chris Cotillo) at the conclusion of the Rule 5 Draft. “Anytime you leave somebody unprotected, there’s always a chance they get picked,” Bloom said. “He’s a high-profile guy for a reason. Obviously, such a unique situation. You don’t ever want to lose anybody. Given his situation, we felt that when he returns from his commitment, being on the 40-man roster would not be an ideal situation to have. That’s a risk we were willing to take.” It does appear Bebe made a decent point, and the Sox could have protected him and kicked the can down the road another year, and if he became eligible, they could have traded him, or DFA'd him, then. He would not have needed a 40 man roster slot until eligible, which happened sooner than expected. It appears they still did not want him on the 40, even if this happened, but you have to think they could have traded him for something. One GM took him knowing he had to keep him on the 26. It's likely he and other GMs would have jumped at the chance to get him with only 40 man roster requirements, so maybe Bloom did err, afterall. I wasn't aware that was an option, until reading this.

I get that. My point was had someone taken 5 minutes, back in December to briefly explain to you and others how the Rule 5 draft works and why certain players are protected or left unprotected, even if very talented or promising, I do believe not a single person would have said, "We should protect Song." Most knew he was in the military and ineligible to play or would have been filled in on that fact during said discussion, and like everyone else who follows this type of thing would have written his protection off very early in the analysis due to his ineligible to play status. No, technically, it's not hindsight bashing since you and others had no opinion in foresight, but to me it is, because of what I just opined. This whole discussion may end up being moot or silly, if Song amounts to nothing special, which actually has a high likelihood of happening. Had anyone else been protected by opening up slots now held by Ort and Brasier, they would have been TWard and Politi, not Song. The weirdest call was actually Hamilton, who was mentioned mostly in passing, or not at all by everyone. I think letting Downs go and the Story injury created a high need for middle IF depth, and the new value being placed on speed led to his surprising protection. I suppose one could argue TWard for Ort, Politi for Ort and Song for Hamilton, but IMO, everyone, including those "not in the know" would have chosen others, like Wallace, Paulino, Wikelman, Bonaci, Cottam or Scott. I've gone back and read several articles on who the Sox protected or should protect, before the draft, and nobody even mentioned Song.

LMAO! Good one, but hey, that fastball!!!

None of them mentioned protecting Song before, so how is not hindsight? Yes, it was "surprising" losing Song (not Ward,) because nobody thought the guy would even be allowed on the mound. It did suck "losing 3 young pitchers," but Song was the only one of the 3 that was shocking. I understand your point, but if a pick was so shocking, it's hard for me to think Bloom should have foresaw the chance of it happening. I'm not even sure that had we known Song would be eligible, it would have been the right move to protect him over some others. I might have mentioned him a couple times, had I thought there was a chance he could pitch in 2023, but it still would not have been a non-brainer decision.

The more I think about our SP'ers, the more optimistic I get about 2023. I'm pumped that Chris Sale is not only healthy, this time of year, but seems like he has the perfect attitude to create a magical 2023 season. I'm not confident that Kluber can ever repeat some of is prime seasons, but it's not out of the question. It's certainly possible he improves on 2022, evan as he turns 37. He has a 4.15 ERA and 3.66 FIP since 2020, and that would be fine, too. Just give us 24+ starts. Paxton is healthy, now, too, but he seems like a longer shot than Sale & Kluber. He's 34 and did have a nice stretch from 2017-2019: 81 GS with a 3.54 ERA and 3.26 FIP. There might still be some life left in that arm. Pivetta seems like a lock on 30 GS'd. (See this post for his possibilities.) Whitlock and Bello have very little history of pitching long seasons as SP'ers, but both have enormous talent. They also have 4 solid vets to learn from sitting right next to them. I'm also very hopeful 1 or 2 from Mata, Crawford, Walter, Wink and Murphy show some plus value, this season. We may only need one to do so. Let's hope it's the first guy they pick.

Good listen. They talked a long time about MB.

Another essential fact is that had he cleared 2 slots by dumping Ort and Brasier, he would have and should have protected 5-6 guys before Song.

No. Of course not. I think the fact that not a single person in the universe would have protected Song, knowing the circumstances as they were in December makes criticism ring hollow, to me. I didn't say it "doesn't count," and I even said I'd be thinking "what if..." if Song ever amounts to anything, but I can't blame Bloom & Co. for doing what everyone would have done. Plus, all the hindsight blaming isn't even based on anything Song has done on the mound, yet.

I addressed that point by saying had every fan being polled was given the situation and told about Song and his ineligibility, not a single person would have chose to protect him over Ward, Polit and several others, just like all the sites I provided links to. One site named 12 guys and no Song. I fully understand why people finding out the facts, now, feel upset. I just don't get why, if they bothered to find out the context, they'd blame Bloom & Co. for a mistake that hasn't even been determined is one, yet.

You keep explaining it to me, like I don't understand it. I get it. I just think it's strange. I get how, had we protected him, we'd only have to keep him on our 40, so if a trade is made, that situations transfers to that other team, but it still seems strange to me that he needs to stay on their 26, unless they gives us something for him, so they can put him on just their 40.

Exactly. I get it. His name would never be mentioned had he stayed ineligible, until he was returned to us, and maybe it would have gotten a slight mention. Nobody expected Song to be eligible in 2023. Maybe DD did his homework and figured something out that Bloom & Co. didn't, but there was no indication he would become eligible, until he did, and now a bunch of posters are trying to blame Bloom for not knowing the unknowable. Nobody thought he should have been protected, yet Bloom was dumb for not doing it. That doesn't ring hollow, to you? Look, I'll be wondering "what if," too, like everyone else, if Song goes on to b e just half of what Whitlock has given us, but I can't see blaming Bloom & Co. for it.

Ort wasn't Rule 5 to be selected.

As we should have protected him? I'm preetty sure notin was part of the pre-draft talk and he never mentioned Song. (Correct me, if I'm wrong.) I'm not sure about 5G. I'm not sure you ever named names you'd have protected before draft day. I stand corrected on no talk about Song, but was the talk about we shoulda...?

Exactly, as they and we should have and did. That's my whole point. To go back, now, and say "coulda- shoulda" rings hollow, to me. The talk may stop, pretty soon, as well, once Song underperforms or gets put on waivers.

Well, my whole point was that nobody did or would have considered protecting Song back in December, so after the fact does not relate to my point. How many people bitched about Song after the fact but before we knew he could now play? The bitching was about Ward.

I understand it. It just seems strange that if Philly trades him to the Pirates, he still needs to stay on the 26.