moonslav59

I bet the main friction between DD and top brass was over their change in direction on spending and allowing major prospect trades in the winter of '18-'19 and the 2019 deadline. I can't prove it, but to me, it msakes sense.

I do think we should have tried to keep "the window" open longer, but at some point we'd have to pay the piper, unless JH & Co decided to become Steve Cohen. We can all pontificate about why he should have done so, but that does not change the fact that he moved in the opposite direction and both GMs paid the price.

I can't believe anything they say, and should have stopped even considering it as partial truths, years ago. it's all coded words designed to con us into thinking they care about the current team's success.

I was a supporter of the Sale contract, at the time, and have never tried to shy away from that, but the fact is, Bloom was handed a broken pitcher and bloated contract. The other thing many fail to accept is that he did inherit many great players from 2018, but many never came near repeating their 2018 numbers, but people acted like they were the same players, and it was all Bloom's fault for not surrounding them with teh same level of suppsorting cast as DD did for 2018. Betts and Price were forced out. We never replaced Porcello. Nate missed 33% of his starts and was shaky for another 17% of the time (making him 50-50 for 4 years) JD and Bogey's production dropped off a cliff in '21 and '22. Vaz was up and down. ERod missed a season. The pen sucked in 2019 to begin with. JBJ fell off a cliff. Beni was traded but never did as well as pre-2020. Who am I missing? Bloom did not "inhereit the 2018 team-" not even close. Hell, he didn't even inherit the 2019 team and them's the facts!

Admit what? You were wrong about the pen being the major reason we dropped off so much? Okay, I admit it. I may have said the pen would be okay, and I'll apologize, taking your word for it that I did. Can you explain why doing nothing at the deadline to fix the pen or rotation "did not matter at all?" Can you admit you made a mistake saying that? Hard as it is for you to do so?

Yes, Larry. Here ie the total list from 2017: 2017: Devers 2018: none 2019: none 2020: none 2021: Houck and Dalbec 2022: Bello, Duran, Crawford and Wink 2023: Casas, Wong, Bernardino, Murphy, Ort, jacques People say, "look at the facts" or "Look at the results." Well, these are facts and results, too. Soon to graduate? Rafaela Abrue Walter DHam EValdez Nick Robertson Maybe not top caliber names, here, but 3 straight years with zero! Actually 4: summer of '17 (Devers) to summer of 21 (Houck) These were "results," too, and one of a few major reason we hit hard times.

You think DD chose to do nothing? He did not want to replace Kimbrell and Kelly that winter or at the deadline? The choice was made from the top, and DD did not like the new direction. It was the direction change that caused the drop and likely the fallout between DD and JH&Co, not DD's "failure to make moves." You also said the deadline had nothing to do with it, then said we were 10 over when he was fired. It was actually 8, but that point highlights how important that deadline could have been had DD been allowed to trade more prospects for pen help, or even a SP'er. BTW, the rotation was a mjaor reason for the drop off- not just the pen: 2018>2019 Pen: 3.72 ERA/587 IP> 4.40 ERA/665 IP SP: 3.77 ERA/871 IP> 4.95ERA/806 IP It's not as simple as just blaming the pen. The pen certainly sucked and blew way too many saves, but they were forced to pitch 80 more IP over 2018 and the ERA drop off was way worse for the rotation: Raised ERA +1.18 rotation +0.68 Pen

How about trading for pen help at the deadline? How is that different from no trades for SP'er this year? The cuts in spending and resistance to trading more prospects for immediate help ended before DD left, and the effects showed on the 2019 team, just like it has with Bloom's teams. I think that was at the root of the growing tension between DD and the top brass.

Most teams sign a few each year, and it's often a good idea. I think we don't have many slots to fill, but we may add some depth players on 1 year deals at positions where we are not sure incoming kids are good enough, yet. IIf we sign one more SP'er as our best one to a 1 year $10M contract, I'll be as gloom and doom as fred lynn.

We stopped spending and failed to trade any prospects for help at the deadline- something Bloom and DD could not overcome.

Of course, but we all know O'Halloran is Bloom Whisperer.

Well, Bloom has yet to be named GM.

Like who? Owens? LOL. Casey Kelly? Espinoza was highly toutted.

I think they will lose a lot of fans, if they suck, next year. If they add good pitching (on paper,) but they fail anyway, maybe some slack might be given to the team, but Bloom will be roasted alive.

Oh, I thought 2019 was the same team as 2018. Oh, and by the way we had 92 wins in 2021, which is more than one season on that list.

He did have some nasty stuff, but so did Houck and so do Mata, Perales, Wikelman and maybe Monegro. It took him years to be ranked, though, and more years to be ranked top 10.

There are a lot of variables going into this winter, concerning the 2024 Red Sox roster and budget. It's hard to know what the budget plans are and where the roster priorities are, but that won't stop us from discussing them and giving our ideas, suggestions, predictions and criticisms. Right now, we have 45 players on the 40 man roster, due to 5 guys on the 60 day IL: Kluber, Mondesi, Mills, Kelly and Ort, and since there is no 60 day IL in the offseason, we will need to deal with those 5 slots, but not to worry, we have 5 players that will become free agents: Paxton Duvall Mondesi Kluber (option not be offered- no buyout.) Turner (player option will surely be turned down) That brings us to 40 without considering added free agents or trade acquisitions over the winter and Rule 5 additions. I can't see how we don't add at least 2-3 players to the roster via free agency or by trades involving non 40 man roster players. The Rule 5 list is rather long, but many are on the bubble. I'm thinking 5-6 are pretty sure bets to be protected and maybe 1-3 others as strong considerations. Here are my lists: Sure bets: W Gonzalez L Perales S Drohan G Gambrell S Scott Strong consideration: A Castro (too low level to be selected?) B Bonaci Kinda long shots: E Paulino M Lugo J Hagenman C-J Liu R Fernandez L de la Rosa A Bastardo B Bell B Gonzalez Let's say we protect 7 Rule 5 and add 3 free agents, that would mean 10 players will need to be DFA'd, non tendered or traded for non 40 man roster prospects. Here is my list of 8, and none of them make me feel worried we are handing one away: 1. Ort 2. Garza 3. Weiss 4. Barraclough 5. Jacques 6. Llovera 7. DHam (trade) 8. Dalbec (trade) Bubble players (trade away?) Wyatt Mills Zack Kelly Valued players thought to be possible trade bait" Dugo or Duran Sale (with cash) Joely, Murphy, Walter, Robertson or Mata EValdez I don't see a big roster squeeze, unless we try to sign 4-6 free agents and protect 7-9 Rule 5'ers. On the budget, a more detailed breakdown will be coming, but we are adding the Devers Raise (almost $12M) and have a bunch or ARB raises ('23 salary): 6.3 Dugo (3rd arb of 3) 5.3 Pivetta (3 of 3) 4.7 Urias (3 of 4) 1.2 McGuire (2 of 3) min Barraclough (3 of 3) 750K Schreiber (1 of 3) min Dalbec (1 of 3) cots has us at $158M before any arbs or options. That leaves about $80M for ARBs and additions. More to come...

If it's all about results, how come no Bloom team is on this list? Are the Bloom bashers just making excuses? LOL!

Which still includes Sale's contract, but we aren't allowed to make excuses.

Good one!

Nice. We need both but likely have under a 5% chance of getting one.

I thought we were talking about what it would take to trade for a Young Pedro, like we did back in fall '97 (Armas Jr & Pavano were no slouches, for sure,

They'd like to tell you to stop making excuses, Max. Bottom line is a GM with declining vets, little money to spend and a farm with no help for 5 years is a failure, if he can't win more than the losing 2019 team. But, it's us making excuses. What's the excuse for 2019 and declining vet production? To them, that's on Bloom, too. A farm that adds only Houck between Devers in '17 and Bello in '22-'23? That's on Bloom, too. A cut budget? Yes, Bloom begged JH to slash the budget so he could prove we can win without spending. It's all "excuses."

Max, nobody is saying hitting doesn't matter or that defense is more important. Some just think you are minimizing the impact our poor D has had on the team. Inconsisten hitting and poor D have mattered more, for sure, but just average D, and we'd be tied with TOR or TEx. I'm convinced.

I think with Duran as the headliner, we'd have to add York, Perales and maybe Wikleman, too or someone like Hickey or Romero..