moonslav59

It could be it really was a 5 year plan all along, but they were just afraid to day it out loud, in public. Last winter, they did sign more seals longer than 1 year than the previous 3, combined. That is pretty telling. True, many were just 2 year deals or one year deals with options, but it might be showing they feel we are getting closer to a time where some longer term deals make sense. We have some farm help, finally, and with more coming, soon. We have budget space, and Sale's contract expiring after 2024. We lose just two key players, this winter: Paxton and Turner (who both could be re-signed along with others.) I'm done predicting "this is the winter we start spending, again," but I'm going to say it might be. (Maybe they wait until 2025, but we have a lot of contracts expiring after 2024, and some good players, at that.

I'm wondering, if he might pass Mayer, at some point.

If they just stopped throwing hard and trying to spin it so much!

I am far from "giving up on 2023." To talk about 2024, as you too have done, does not mean I'm thinking 2023 is over.

I'm thinking we would not have gone over the line, this year, even if we stayed under, last year, but that's a seperate issue.

This might be more about next year, but here it is. We lost some big names, last winter- much more than we will lose, this winter. I figure we will lose about $40M in tax budget salary, assuming we don't resign or bring back any one who is a FA or has an option. (Kluber, Duvall, Paxton, Mondesi, Turner & Joely.) The only two that really matter are Paxton and Turner. If JH allows the budget to be near or over the tax line in 2024, we should have an easier task than last winter. The Devers extension kicks in and will add about $12M, so that is significant. The ARB raises will add some more: Dugo 3rd arb of 4 ($6.3M in '23) Pivetta 3 of 3 ($5.4) Urias 3 of 4 ($4.7) McGuire 2 of 3 ($1.3M) Without any outside additions, this would be the foundation we have to build on. Some may think it looks severely lacking and should be much better, by now. Some may think it shows some serious improvement over what we looked like in 2020. Most are probably somewhere in between. The 26 SP: Sale, Bello, Pivetta, Houck, Crawford RP: Jansen, Martin, Winckowski, Schreiber, Whitlock, Murphy, Joely, Bernardino C: Wong, McGuire 1B: Casas 2B: Urias, Reyes SS: Story 3B: Devers LF: Duran, Refsnyder CF: Rafaela RF: Verdugo, Abreu DH: Yoshida The rest of the 40: (Red= Rule 5 Protected) SP: Walter, Drohan, Wikelman, Perales RP: Kelly, Mills, Robertson, Jacquez, Barraclough C: SScott 1B: Dalbec 2B: EValdez SS: DHamilton 3B: Paulino Removed from 40: Ort, Garza, Llovera

Woo won 8-4 as Abreu remains hot. Will he be our starting RF'er, next year? 2-4 Abreu w HR, 2B and 4 rbi (.864) 2-3 Rafaela w BB (1.035) 1-3 EValdez w HR & 3 rbi (.962) POR lost 5-1 Coffey 6IP, 2H, 1ER, 1BB, 4K 2-4 Bonaci 2 2B GRE is up 8-7 Bastardo got lit up, but Teel is el fuego! 3-4 Teel 2-3 Paulino 2-5 Anthony SAL lost 8-7 Nunez 4 IP, 1H, 0ER, 0BB, 6K 3-4 James 2-4 Asigen FCL won 3-2 1-3 Zanetello 1-4 Tucker w HR DSL Blue won 4-0 2-4 Cespedes DSL Red lost 3-2 Henriquez: 5IP, 2H, 1ER, 1BB, 5K

I felt we need to go 8-2 in these 10 games vs the weaker teams. That would take a 4 game winning streak. I guess 7-3 would be okay. I still like our chances vs the tougher teams, afterwards, but that will be the defining task. On calling for Bloom's head: I doubt he gets fired, no matter what. JH might be the only guy agreeing with that.

Yes, between then and now, but not now... (maybe.)

Scant???!!!!???!!!! Houck Whitlock Bello Crawford Winckowski Murphy I'd say this is a little more than "scant" that maybe our developing program is improving. Maybe Perales, Wikelman, Drohan, Walter, E R-C and others may prove you right, but I'm sensing a change for the good. BTW, in the last 50 years, we did have a few short stretches of nice pitcher development, unless it was just blind luck. The Lester, Buchholz, Papelbon, Masterson and Anibal Sanchez era The Clemens, Hurst, Ojeda and Boyd era

I never said he didn't try. I never said I'd agree to whatever the max deal needed to get either. I just said, we would not have had to part with any top prospects to get a SP'er that could have helped. Look, I'm on board with this whole long term plan idea, but we can afford to make a deal here and there for the current ML team. We did for Schwarber, and losing Aldo Ramirez did not kill our farm.

Yes, the morale of the team and fans. Rich people have emotions, too. If this season has proven anything, it's that you can never have enough good pitchers. We have always had someone like Brasier, Ort, Jacquez, Llovera and Barraclough pitching when the game still counts. If you really think we will go the next 7 weeks without any pitcher going on the IL or go through a period of struggling, I'll have to say, I disagree. We've already had 2-3 pen games, too many. Three more wins, right now, could be all we needed.

This was a very hurtful loss. I'm also worried about Bello, He's carried us for so long, but had a .534 EAR/6.01 FIP in his 5 starts before today. The bats have been slumped for way too long, as well.

-You don't often get big impact players for $7-10M/1 deals. Story has not or not yet been a big impact, and I'm not sure Yoshida is bige enough of an impact for you, but due to budget tightness, Bloom has just swung twice at that big apple. My point was directed at those who make statements that say or imply that all or nearly all Bloom does fails. No doubt, he's failed enough, but to me, it's not even half, at worst.

JH has a history of spending big, then cutting back and resetting, then spending big, again, including on pitching- free agents, extensions or trading for higher salary pitchers. Using "Bloom's history" as any sort of predictor of what may come is not something I agree on. At some point, the plan will be adjusted. IMO, spending on pitching, one way or another, including maybe trading prospects for a controllable pitcher is going to happen, again. Will Bloom still be here when that happens? Who knows? I have to think Bloom knows we need pitching. He also knows he's not drafting or signing IFA pitchers at a rate needed to expect many from the farm system. I'm choosing not to think he's that dumb to not find a way to make it happen. I know, I know, you will ask, "Why hasn't he done it already?" I'll answer, "Good question. It's one of my biggest beefs with Bloom. Low budgets or not, he could have dedicated more funds to the rotation than he has." He's never spent more than $10M/1 on any SP'er. He had a bigger budget, this past winter, and he still did not go higher. What makes that worse is that both $10M/1 guys were busts: Richards and Kluber. He did a little better with the next tier signings (Perez I, Perez II, Wacha and Hill,) but that has never been enough, in my eyes.

TEX and or HOU might not care about winning those last games. They may be resting some players.

Assuming 23 GS would be the norm for a SP who never missed a start, our SP'er have missed these amounts of starts: 4 Bello 8 Paxton 11 Sale 13 Whitlock 14 Kluber (demoted before IL) If you viewed Pivetta as being in the "all healthy rotation," he missed 13 starts due to demotion not injury.

If I told you in March, our top leaders in GS would be 19 Bello 15 Paxton 14 Crawford You might ask, if we had the worst record in MLB. A pitcher who never missed a start would have about 23 starts, by now (116/5). Here is the team W-L record by SP'er: 9-3 Sale 13-6 Bello 6-4 Whitlock (4 starts with 2 or less, 6 with 4 or less ands 7 with 5 or less) 5-5 Pivetta (6 starts with 4 or less, 7 with 5 or less) 7-8 Paxton (8 starts with 4 or less run support, 10 with 5 or less) 6-7 Houck (7 starts with less than 2 runn support!) 6-8 Crawford (8 starts with 4 or less) 3-6 Kluber (3 starts with 1 or less, 5 with 4 or less) 6-8 Others

Agreed, and it risked overtaxing our pen to the point where it might have turned one of our biggest pluses, this year, into a meh or minus. Our opener and scrub starter games have not ended well: L CLE Dermody W NYY Ort L MIN Garza L MIA Ort L TEX Bernardino W OAK Bernardino W OAK TScott W OAK Bernardino L OAK Jacques (back-to back pen games) W NYM Bernardino W ATL Schreiber L SFG Bernardino L TOR Schreiber L TOR Bernardino (back-to-back) 6-8 is not horrible, but what effect did these games have on using up the pen for following games?

Flaherty and Lowenzen did not cost much, at all. Any effort to improve and deepen the pitching staff would have helped the roster and the morale.

Would it really have been all that bad to trade Paulino and Drohan for a decent SP'er? If we ended up with 6-7 decent SP'ers, after everyone returns, the pen would be greatly improved by moving Houck, Whitlock or someone else to the pen. The pen needs some innings eaters and has been taxed a lot, recently. Our Staff would be better adding starters to the pen and not keeping guys like Llovera, Barraclough and Jacques there. Also, thinking we will finish the year with no pitchers going on the IL, means you should be okay with one of those scubs coming back up.

I'm not arguing Walter is better than Robertson. I agree with your position. Just because I provide some data that supports Walter does not mean I am trying to convince you and others he is better. Walter's OPS Against in AA/AAA was third best in the whole Sox system. In 57.2 innings, he K'd 75 and walked only 7- one of the best K/BB ratios in minor league baseball. Yes, his 7.2 IP in AAA, last year were not good, and this year 72 IP, as well, but you never know. 2023 AAA ERA/OPS Against 5.50/.802 Walter 7.01/.881 Murphy Again, I like Robertson more. I just wanted to give a more full look at Walter's career.

...and yet most of the criticism is directed at him. The guy has made many bad moves. Name a GM who has not. So far, these moves look pretty good to very good: Urias? Barnardino Reyes Tapia & Chang filled the roles, when needed Martin Jansen Turner Yoshida Duvall? McGuire Abreu & EValdez Wacha Hill Strahm Paxton Schwarber Robles I Iggy & TShaw I Schreiber Refsnyder Kike I ? Renfroe Ottavino ? Pivetta Whitlock Verdugo & Wong Arroyo Not all these guys were/are great, but it is quite a few good moves. Do all the bad moves really bring his grade down below a C, or far below a C. If you think they do, fine, but by the sounds coming from the many Bloom critics, he ONLY makes bad moves or makes almost all BAD moves. I don't see it that way, and when you look at the budgets he was handed to add players, expecting much better than this, is off base, in my opinion. No, that is not apologizing or supporting Bloom. It is just giving the facts. He made enough bad moves to make up a pretty good sized list. I don't need to list them, because most have it memorized.

Patience used to be a virtue: not anymore.

I know you said AAA. Can't anyone add to the points made for a deeper understanding?