moonslav59

Nobody is claiming that. They are saying it is one reason why we lost. Are you saying, we'd still have lost had Bloom had another $30+M to spend every winter? Are you sure about that? No doubt, we may have still lost, but it still is a valid point to make, even if a "rationalization."

Worse, we blamed Bloom for not spending.

So, not all RP'ers are inconsistent. Our pen could be fine, if we add 3 SP'er (even just 2 who can pitch 175+ IP.) Jansen Martin Houck Whitlock Schreiber Winckowski Bernardino Pivetta or Crawford (whichever one is not the 5th SP) It is light on lefties. The minor league depth: Z Kelly Joely Murphy Walter Mills Robertson Guerrero Converted SP'er

Kluber, Ort and Mondesi are on the 60 day IL, so they do not take up a roster slot. They are as good as DFA'd, and will be let go. To me, even with no outside additions, the addition of Rule 5 players will take all the slots of the 60 man IL guys, which would leave these guys to be replaced with outside the system additions: Jacques, Barraclough, Garza, Weiss> SP1 SP2 SP4 LH'd RP Then, can Llovera or Gillaspie for a RH'd power bat who can play plus D in CF or RF. The 40 man might be stuck with one guy like Dalbec, but we could just protect one more rule 5 guy and trade him, too.

I'm talking Sale, Nate and ERod under Bloom. It wasn't just 2019, the big named pitchers struggled or got hurt. ERod started 34 games in 2019 and then missed all of 2020. Sale started 25 in 2019 and never came close, afterwards. Nate sucked in 2019, but also missed a lot of time from 2020-2022, and wasn't great every year. Bloom didn't even have Price and had no budget to replace him, until 2021's $10M/1 for Richards. The one season Bloom got anything from the carry over SP'ers was 2021, and look what happened that fall. 32 GS Nate 3.75 ERA 31 GS ERod 4.74 ERA was not great but it sure beats Richards and Kluber. (Getting 30 starts and 155 IP from newly acquired Pivetta helped, too.)

That was about the time OBP became the fad.

I've never worried about his swing or approach to the K zone. He'll look bad on some swings, but he also hit balls out of the K zone for Hrs enough times, for it not to be a big concern, for me. Maybe, as he ages and loses his edge a little, it might become a major concern, but often player figure it out as they mature and make adjustments. IMO, Devers is fine, as is on offense. I'm also a believer in the benefit of having a line-up that has players with differing approaches. It makes it harder on opposing pitchers and when most batters can't figure out that day's pitcher, the unique approach guy does.

Sorry, but I do not know a single poster who disagreed with the position we need more pitching.

It shows it's not the post he is responding to, but rather the poster he has an ax to grind with.

No doubt. That is why he is gone. His foundation will go on, and hopefully the next guy does not squander it. (Yes, I know, much is based on speculative values, but I'd rather have a foundation based on high speculative value than lower ones.) He should have been able to win while rebuilding, especially this year. He had a big winter spending budget, and although he had to replace some big producers like Nate, JD, Bogey and Vaz, those big-named players did not have fantastic numbers in 2022. He swung and hit on a few gets, but he missed on too many and focused his efforts on the pen and offense not the rotation and defense, and it bit him and the team in the ass. It was his "make or break" moment, and it broke.

based is fact.

Well said, and Price and Sale were not the only two who were never the same. Many other vets went on to decline or get hurt, or both over the next 4-5 years- some not right away. Porcello was not brought back or replaced. Some poo-poo'd his value, but he sure at innings, and we all know how we could have used that over the last 2-3 years. We did not replace Kimbrell and Kelly until 2023. ERod missed 2020, and was gone after 2021. Nate had one great full season after 2018, and it's no coincidence that was the one year we made the playoffs after 2018. The pen has been constructed with yarn and patches since 2018. This is the first year we even tried to make it better. On the O side, many players took longer to show decline, or had some up and down seasons along the way, but losing Betts right off the bat, to start Bloom's era, is a pretty big punch in the gut to an organization. Beni was 23 when he hit .830. He never came close, afterwards, even on other teams. He's at .695, this year at age 28. JD was a great addition to the Sox- no doubt- no disrespect, but players get older. While he aged better than most, he did drop off, some. '18-'19: 1306 PAs .317 79 235 (per 162: .317 43 129) '20-'22: 1467 PAs .269 51 188 (per 162: .269 24 89) Bogey's D improved, but his O production dropped: '18-'19: 1278 PAs .300 56 2210 (31 HRs and 123 RBI per 162 gms) '20-'22:1459 PAs .301 49 180 (23 HRs and 83 RBI per 162) JBJ was still a big plus on D and had an OK .728 OPS fromm '18-'19 He had a better 2020 season, but was gone- only to return a shell of himself. Devers has been pretty steady. The role players at starters who were not studs were not really replaced in kind, either: Moreland (.758 in '18), Nunez (.677), Holt (.774), Pearce (.901) and others. People see that 2018 for what it was: a great team, but some assumed that was the team Bloom essentially inherited, but it was not. Even the players with the same names were mostly not the same guys.

The other argument could be that he left a much better foundation than he started with: 26 man, 40 man, farm and budget.

Thanks for this. I'm not a big fan of Law, who seems to short-change the Sox a bit, but he was spot on, here.

The did spend a lot extending Sale, Bogey and Nate, so the spending really dropped off after 2019 not before it. Yes, we lost Kimbrell and Kelly, but the raises to the vets is what happens when you have a core of winning players for 3 years straight. Eventually, you reach a point, where you can't pay them all. The Astros don't pay them all, but they kept their pipeline going. It's about having a balanced approach. We should try it sometime.

Did Bloom "assemble" Casas, Duran, Devers. Bloom did add some stinkers, but some were decent fielders playing out of position (Kike at SS, Duvall in CF...) I'm not defending Bloom: our D sucks, and he was the guy who could have done something about it, and choce to improve the pen and offense, instead of the rotation and defense.

Why not just try a GM who has a balanced approach?

If a GM wants to keep working as a GM, they pretty much have to shut up and take the abuse. It's weird how once they retire, you don't see them returning the abuse at those who canned them and then threw them under the bus. (Maybe they do, and I just miss it.) The sick part about the whole process is that it always starts with flowery language about what a great job so and so did, and how "professional" he was, while at the same moment, spreading out your minions feeding the press all the crap we are reading, now.

Didn't they use those words after 2022?

Agree, but linking it to fully blaming Bloom is where the shorthand goes off the rails, IMO.

They are all over the map on finding things to throw blame on Bloom and not themselves. There is a sizeable brigade on this board that feels strongly that Bloom hoarded prospects and made building for the future his top priority, at the expense of the here and now current ML team. I seem to recall, at most trade deadlines, most here wanted us to be buyers not sellers. He usually played it halfway or chose neither. Doing that, opened him up for being ripped from both sides: The here and now bunch and the long term outlook bunch. I will add, playing it halfway is the worst choice, IMO..

Wonder why that is an excuse for a manager but not a GM. Was Bloom supposed to know a big chunk of the vest were going to get hurt, decline or both, and do what? Trade them right before their decline, even if they were fan faves? (THat is what the Rays are famous for.)

I'd say his big mistake this year was sticking with Kike at SS, even after we got Reyes. (I'd have even played DHam there, longer or tried Arroyo at SS. Hell, bring up Rafaela a few months earlier, but maybe that was Bloom's call on Raff.)

As most people know, I'm a big Cora fan, despite the mistakes he has made over his career. I seriously doubt he goes anywhere, but the new guy in charge might have a different idea.

The guy could throw a perfect game, and I still would not count on him for even 1 IP, next year.