moonslav59

If everyone was part of some sort of master plan, where the idea was to not trade any top prospects, not make any long term deals larger than $140M/6 or any deals that don't rate to still be helping us in 2024 or 2025, or whatever year they chose as the "flip the switch" year, then I'm not sure we should be worried about the same guys being in charge, or if it's 1 , 2 or 3 guys. Or, how much power of influence Cora has. If the strategy does not change, nothing will likely matter. No GM will likely matter. I guess it's possible, still, that we can become a team like the Rays, but it takes a lot of focused effort and the right people in the system to make it work- not just the GM. I hope we don't keep trying to be the Rays North, and start doing what we need to do to win- like getting back to being a top 5-6 spending team and being okay with trading a top prospect now and then. I'm not for emptying the farm, but a balanced approach sounds good to me.

Well, we can assume JH was okay with what we offered Nate, then pulled later. We can assume he was okay what we offered Eflin and lost out to the Rays. That was more than $10M/1. Bloom dithered and dathered and wound up with the booby prize. Hell, I think he was rumored to want Seth Lugo, who cost less than Kluber. I think not focusing on the rotation for 2024 was on Bloom and only Bloom. Do I think JH would have allowed a mega deal on a pitcher? No, but JH did not mandate just $10M.

I'm not grading on a curve.t I'm grading Bloom on his total body of work. I'd hate to be a student in your class: 1 A 3 Bs 8 Cs 18 Fs

I thought that about Ben, and I certainly felt Bloom would be back in 2024 just 3 months ago, but I guess it depends on whether we think Bloom could have chosen to trade top prospects for pitching and decided not to, or upper management told him not to or to wait. It sounds like what top brass was mad about was him not trading Sale and others, and not what most fans are mad at Bloom about. If Ben and Bloom has more free reign, they could have traded top prospects and maybe saved their jobs by increasing the win totals, assuming the trades helped. Then, there is the budget thing. Some seem to think Bloom could have talked JH into keeping Betts or demanded a larger winter spending budget, and he was just trying to prove he could build a winner on the cheap out of some sort of bravado thing. I seriously doubt that. Cora or the next GM can suggest, argue, cry or beg all they want, but if some mandates (or whatever you want to call them) don't change, the 2024 win-lost totals probably won't change much either. The next guy is losing Turner, Paxton and Duvall, and replacing all of their value at the cost they had in 2023 will be very difficult. He will also have the Devers extension kick in with no added production expected. If the budget doesn't change, it will be hard to win. If we can't trade a top prospect in a package with a tier 2 prospect or two for a solid SP'er, it will be hard to win more.

We do give different grades for English, Math, Science, Social Studies and electives, and yes, many teachers grade on a curve or enter a 50 or 60 in the gradebook, instead of a zero. I understand people grade on differing criteria, but to me an F would be failure in all 3 seasons: 2021, 2022 and 2023, not 2 of 3. To each his own. There were also things that happened beyond his control- like the decline and injuries of inherited vets, some not even post-prime, but I get it: excuses, excuses. My lowest grades might be: D- MLB roster management and results. C- on Buget management and what he left the next GM B- on farm building, which is a highly speculative grade and really should be graded Incomplete. Weight the first line more heavily, and it looks like maybe a D or C-, but that's just me. I'm glad he's gone. He failed on his major roster additions. He failed to add many gems in the rough. IMO, he left a foundation and budget better than he received. The farm looks way better, but we saw how Ben's farm compared to DD'd farm, in hindsight. It doesn't always work out as expected or hoped. I'm not crying "poor, poor Bloom." He failed to produce what most fans expected. Many fans don't care about context or anything else but wins. I get that.

And, Cora can talk and suggest all he wants, but if management doesn't decide to change strategies, it won't matter, much. I think 2 major changes will be needed to effect change: 1. Spending significantly over the tax line and on the rotation. 2. Allowing top prospects to be traded for pitching, since we don't draft them very often or develop them very well. Maybe Bloom never pushed hard for either of these two things. Maybe he did, and they never allowed it. This needs to change.

DD did one hell of a job, despite a tough budget situation he left for the next GM. He was often roasted for "emptying the farm" or "trading away the future," and he certainly traded a boatload of top or once highly ranked prospects, but the hindsight evaluation shows he chose well or with a lot of luck. Here's a look at who he traded, and who he kept: (Top soxprospects ranking) 1. Moncada 3. Margot 3. Espinoza 5. Kopech 6. Beeks 6. Guerra 8. Basabe 10. Dubon 13. L Allen 16. S Anderson 18. C Acosta 19. Buttrey 19. T Shaw (not a prospect when traded) Highest rankings of the ones he kept: (1. Devers- a Ben addition) 1. Casas 1. Beni 2. Mata 3. Bello 3. Houck 3. Duran 3. Rafaela (current ranking) 3. Groome 4. Dalbec 5. Walter 7. Perales (current ranking) 8. Song 9. Wikelman (current ranking) 9. Aldo Ramirez (Bloom traded for Schwarber) 10. Murphy 10. TWard 12. Bonaci 12. Lugo 16. Crawford Wow! What a lop-sided list! TY DD! We suffered some from the gap between Devers and Casas/Bello, but it was worth it all, and we still have many players on the current roster to be thankful for adding and or keeping.

This actually sounds believable.

Moncada should make the list, but I'm not sure what we paid him...

I also don't fault his strategy on drafting the best available player and not just take a pitcher, because we need a few. The problem, IMO, is that he should be trading some for better known young pitchers. He did well getting Whitlock on Rule 5. The Winckowski and Gambrell for Beni trade may work out for our staff, but that is not what I hoped for, either. It's not too late for the next guy to pull that trigger. The rest are ... Pivetta, Schreeiber, Bernardino (not a prospects addition) Monegro Drohan Dobbins ICoffey Rogers Penrod SenaTroye Hoppe BBell Paez Cepeda Duffy Song More quantity than quality, for sure.

Can you take this to the thread on Bauer?

I was only counting under JH. Manny's would beat Pedro's.

If you account for inflation, our biggest deals might be: 1. Devers 2. Price 3. AGon 4. Crawford 5. Sale 6. Story 7. Pedey 8. JD-Pablo 10. HRam 11. Porcello 12. Lackey 13. Yoshida- JD Drew 15. Dice-K 16. Rusney 17. Nate 18. VTek-Renteria 20. Bogey (counting $60M/3)

I'm not making excuses for Bloom's pre-2023 winter spending. I said it was his "make or break" or "legacy" winter, and it was, He failed. No excuses for 2023. He spent too much on some areas and not enough on the rotation. The $10M he did spend was a disaster. I do think it needs to be pointed out that even though he had more money to spend, this winter than maybe the other 3 combined, he had a lot of big holes to fill with some players becoming FAs. AAV needing replacement 22 JD 20 Bogey 17 Nate 7 Vaz 7 Wacha 5 Hill 3 Strahm 2 Plawecki That's over $80M gone from 2022. It's not like he spent $90M upon a solid team with 2-3 guys leaving. 18 Yoshida 16 Jansen 11 Turner (counting buyout) 10 Kluber 10 Kike (signed las summer) 8 Martin 7 Duvall 4 Paxton (from 2022 signing) 3 Mondesi (minus Josh Taylor's arb cost) 2 Joely Again, he deserves much of the blame for 2023. He deserved to be fired.

Very simplistic approach, which many seem to adhere to. I will add that the team did not have a losing record during the actual time, Bloom was GM, but if you want to count the 4-11 record to end 2023, it's understandable. He should have built a winning team by 2023. Maybe 2022, too. I'm not giving him and A or B or even a C for the performance of the big club. I just think an overall "F" is harsh.

These are facts- not excuses. If Bloom were handed a Little League team, I still think some would blame him for not winning.

Here are the biggest contracts given out by the Sox under JH: Free Agents and Extensions (No adjustments for inflation made) (Manny's $160M/8 deal in '01 was pre-JH) 314/10 Devers '24 217/7 Price '16 (later dumped) 154/7 AGon '12 (later traded with salary dump CC) 145/5 Sale '20 (made $15M in '19) 142/7 Crawford '11 (later dumped) 140/6 Story '22 120/6 Bogey '20 w opt out after '22 110/5 JD '18 110/8 Pedey '14 95/5 Pablo '15 (later cut) 90/5 Yoshida (plus large positing fee) 88/4 HRam '15 (later cut) 83/4 Porcello '16 83/5 Lackey '10 (later traded) 73/7 Rusney Castillo (almost all in the minors) 70/5 JD Drew '07 68/4 Nate '19 52/6 Dice-K '07 (plus huge posting fee) 41/4 Youk '09 w option (traded) 41/6 Pedroia '09 40/4 Renteria '05 (later dumped) 40/4 VTek '05 39/3 Vic '13 38/3 Lowell '08 38/3 Lugo '07 32/2 Napoli '14 32/2 Jansen '23 31/4 Damon '02 30/3 Beckett '07 w option (traded) 30/4 Buchholz '12 w options 30/5 Lester '09 w option (29/2 Peavy '13 traded Iggy for him after signing) 27/2 Dempster (retired after 1 yr) 26/2 Ortiz '13 26/3 Clement '13 (hit in the face by a LD) 26/4 Foulke '04 (gave us one great year) 20/1 Betts '19 (traded) 19/2 Barnes w option (traded) 18/2 Uehara '15 18/2 Martin '23 18/1 Devers '23 16/2 Cameron '10 14/2 Kike '21 (traded under next $10M/1 deal) 14/3 Vaz '19 w option (traded) 13/2 Moreland '18 (traded) 13/2 C Young '16 13/2 Scutaro '10 (traded) 12/1 Bogey '19 12/2 Jenks '11 11/1 SDrew 11/1 JBJ '20 11/1 Devers '22 Am I missing anyone who got more than $10M since 2003? I'd like to see these numbers with inflation figured in.

Or, he leaves some answer choice dots blank due to indecisiveness. I keep telling him no answer is always going to be wrong, so just choose one and go with it.

Not bad. We do need to figure that Bloom’s grade still has some open-ended aspects. DDs grade improved due to Houck, Casa, Bello, Crawford and maybe more to come. High end: A Epstein A- DD C+ Ben C Bloom Low end A- B+ C- D

I don’t count 2020. I see 2021 as a remarkable feat. I see 2022 as Bloom making many good moves but it just not working. 2023: he sucked despite Turner and Duvall. U DET the circumstances handed to him I can’t see an F as being my grade, and that is just on the MLB performance. The other areas are clearly not F’s. I gave the grades I felt were fair.

So, all the good is tossed for an F.

Indeed. We just don'y know. Is it possible he did something illegal, like not stopping at the "safe word," and the dumb-ass woman knew she could get money from it, and chose the word "blackmail," not knowing it's full meaning? I know it's a stretch. but my point is, we don't know if he is guilty of anything illegal or immoral. I'm not taking any sides. I think he will be signed, and I'm not against anyone who does sign him.

I fully understand your point, but I think having a very high quality manager mitigates the "issue" to some extent. I guess they could have told Cora, "We will highly encourage the next GM to keep you as our manager, but no guarantees. If the next GM wants to fire you, we will make a space for you in upper management with a hefty raise. Is that okay with you?" I doubt, he'd say no, but he might have. I'm not saying the situation is not dicey. I'm just saying I think Cora is good enough to want to keep around. They may value him more than the next GM, and maybe they are not wrong for doing so. Maybe they are. I seriously doubt many GM candidates are saying, "No thanks, I want to fire Cora, and you won't let me. Bye-bye."

You really count 2020 against Bloom? You apply no context beyond where we placed in the ALE standings? To each his own. Considering the massive slash to the budget in 2020 and a slow trickle upwards, afterwards, and the fact that no meaningful prospects joined the team from mid '17 to 2023, I find it hard to agree that a nrea .500 records deserves an F. D, maybe, if you don't count farm building at all. I'd say D for results. I'd give a C- for the budget left for the next guy and budget handling over 4 tight spending years (3 anyway.) I'd give him a highly speculative B+ on farm building despite the lack of a top pitching prospect better than Winckowski and Monegro. To me, I'd be fine with an overall D, but D+ or C- (or even a C) might be his final grade, once we see what his prospects and players do, going forward.

I fixed that for you.