moonslav59

I don't think we were trying to win enough to make the playoffs in 2021. We could have done more, and did at the deadline. I don't think it is all that bold to think we purposely did not spend enough to be serious contenders for even a playoff slot. We signed one guy to two year (Kike.) You don't get serious impact players for $10M/1 (Richards was the one guy at $10M) or less. Come on! Richards, Kike, Marwin, Santana, Andriese, Sawamura and Renfroe? These guys scream for 2022 to arrive. I suppose the hope of ERod and Sale was enough to give hope, but IMO, we did next to nothing to improve our chances significantly. You speak of the core from 2018: they were closer to the core from 2019, minus Betts, Price, Porcello and others. To think the list of guys we signed plus Dugo, Ottavino, Pivetta and a couple other add ons was enough to improve on the non playoff team of 2019 was not enough to think it made us a playoff team is BOLD, I think we differ on what "bold" means..

Where did I say defensive positions of strength. Are you saying 3B and 1B are two of our weakest overall positions? If yes, you clearly no longer value fWAR.

It wasn't. I love Nate and wish we brought him back. He was looking invincible, until last night. I pointed it out.

What's the reality for maybe 6-10 MLB teams in the gutter, every season?

Nobody has hinted at tanking guaranteeing great draft picks or the ability to afford top FAs that work out well. We ar arguing that teams set up their rosters to try and lose, so they better their position for the future- via better draft picks in every round, more bonus pool money and a cleared up budget for the time the team decides to go "all in." Some teams never end up going all in. They "tank" or whatever you want to call it to make more money by spending less.

Of course trading Jansen, but replacing him in kind or better would not be a "punt." It does seem like many or most of your "hypothetical examples" focus on our positions of strength. Sorry, I worded it incorrectly.

I don't see it as "bold." We sucked in 2020 and barely added anyone believed to be a significant impact player. I felt we signed a bunch of 1 year deals as a bridge to 2022 and beyond. I did not think we seriously felt we could win. I don't recall you being optimistic that spring, but maybe I'm wrong. What do you base the bold question on? ERod and Sale's return?

If I had to answer, now, I'd say Yes. Hader may cost more than Jansen and will certainly get more than the one year we owe Jansen, but it would be nice to lock up the closer role, longterm. We could get 2024 salary relief by trading Jansen and get something good in return. It's my philosophy to look at our weakest positions to try and upgrade. I'm not shut down on improving positions of strength, but I tend to focus on high need areas, first. Your ideas have been for 3B (Chapman), SS/2B (Ahmed) and Closer (Hader.) I'm sure I missed some other ideas, but those are not areas I'm looking at, first.

They were not trying to win enough to make the playoffs in 2021. We obviously have different ideas of what "punting" means. To me, it means not trying to win this year in hopes that we can be better, next year. We ended up doing much better than expected and were buyers at the deadline. Maybe if I change the word to something other "punt" or "tank" we can find common ground.

Very few thought those additions to the 2020 roster, even with ERod and Sale returning was going to be enough to be favorites to make the playoffs. To Sox fans, IMO, not being favorites to making the playoffs is some sort of "punting," a "bridge year" or GM incompetence. Looking at the winter spending budget of '21-'22, and considering the major budget cuts before the 2020 season, it seemed obvious to most, we were not expecting to make the playoffs, let alone come one game away from making the big dance.

You don't think purposely putting inferior players on the field with the purpose of losing, so you get top picks is a form of "tanking?" I agree, I do not think anyone told players or the manager to intentionally lose games.

They even told their fans they were not going to spend money to try and win, now. They laid out their strategy for everyone to see. They were even sued by their cable company. If you see tanking as telling the players to try and lose, then no, they did not "tank," in that sense, but they intentionally put a horrible 25 man roster in the dugout with the expressed purpose of hoarding top draft picks for the future. They told fans to look to the future and promised they would spend big in the future. Maybe, we just have different interpretations on differing forms of "tanking." Most feel the upper management of The Astros "tanked" the team for a 3-5 year period.

I guess the term "punting" has some subjective interpretations. I'm sure most MLB fans would have said the 2021 Sox were not "punting," but after that horrific 2020 season, I do not think anyone would say we did enough to make us a solid playoff contender. I thought, due to all the one year signings, the team was looking at 2022, 2023 or beyond, and not 2021. I see that as "punting" or something close to that concept.

Some of the top Free Agents, this winter... Catchers Mitch Garver, Rangers Gary Sanchez, Padres Yasmani Grandal, White Sox Yan Gomes, Cubs ($6 million club option) First basemen/designated hitters Shohei Ohtani, Angels J.D. Martinez, Dodgers Rhys Hoskins, Phillies Josh Bell, Marlins ($16.5 million player option) Donovan Solano, Twins C.J. Cron, Angels Brandon Belt, Blue Jays Joey Votto, Reds ($20 million club option) Carlos Santana, Brewers Garrett Cooper, Padres Second basemen Whit Merrifield, Blue Jays ($18 million mutual option) Adam Frazier, Orioles Kolten Wong, Dodgers Third basemen Matt Chapman, Blue Jays (Devers to 1B/DH and Casas to split DH/1B?) Max Muncy, Dodgers ($10 million club option) Jeimer Candelario, Cubs Justin Turner, Red Sox ($13.4 million player option) Josh Donaldson, Brewers Gio Urshela, Angels Evan Longoria, Diamondbacks Mike Moustakas, Angels Shortstops Tim Anderson, White Sox ($14 million club option) Brandon Crawford, Giants Jon Berti, Marlins Javier Báez, Tigers (player opt-out available) Amed Rosario, Dodgers Kiké Hernández, Dodgers Adalberto Mondesí, Red Sox Outfielders Cody Bellinger, Cubs ($12 million mutual option) Bats LH'd, so trade Dugo? Jorge Soler, Marlins ($9 million player option) Bats RH'd but sucks on D Joc Pederson, Giants (Bats LH'd but is a decent defender in CF) Teoscar Hernández, Mariners (Big RH's bat but sucka on D) Lourdes Gurriel Jr., Diamondbacks Jason Heyward, Dodgers Tommy Pham, Diamondbacks Max Kepler, Twins ($10 million club option) Jung Hoo Lee, KBO Andrew McCutchen, Pirates Adam Duvall, Red Sox Michael Conforto, Giants ($18 million player option) Mark Canha, Brewers ($12.2 million club option) Michal Brantley, Astros Kevin Kiermaier, Blue Jays Eddie Rosario, Braves ($9 million club option) Robbie Grossman, Rangers Randal Grichuk, Angels Michael A. Taylor, Twins Joey Gallo, Twins Jesse Winker, Brewers David Peralta, Dodgers Starting pitchers Blake Snell, Padres Marcus Stroman, Cubs ($21 million player option) Aaron Nola, Phillies Yoshinobu Yamamoto, NPB Clayton Kershaw, Dodgers Eduardo Rodriguez, Tigers (player opt-out available) Sonny Gray, Twins Hyun Jin Ryu, Blue Jays Charlie Morton, Braves ($20 million club option) Jordan Montgomery, Rangers Kyle Hendricks, Cubs ($16 million club option) Alex Cobb, Giants ($10 million club option) Mike Clevinger, White Sox ($12 million mutual option) Michael Wacha, Padres ($16 million mutual option) Wade Miley, Brewers ($10 million mutual option) Seth Lugo, Padres ($7.5 million player option) Martín Pérez, Rangers Lance Lynn, Dodgers ($18 million club option) Lucas Giolito, Guardians Kenta Maeda, Twins Michael Lorenzen, Phillies Tyler Mahle, Twins Relievers Josh Hader, Padres (Trade Jansen?) Liam Hendriks, White Sox ($15 million club option) Craig Kimbrel, Phillies Aroldis Chapman, Rangers José Leclerc, Rangers ($6.3 million club option) Hector Neris, Astros ($8.5 million club option) Joe Jimenez, Braves Jordan Hicks, Blue Jays Matt Moore, Marlins Reynaldo López, Guardians Keynan Middleton, Yankees Nick Martinez, Padres ($16 million club option) David Robertson, Marlins Chad Green, Blue Jays ($9 million club option) Blake Treinen, Dodgers ($7 million club option) Daniel Hudson, Dodgers ($6.5 million club option) Will Smith, Rangers

Bleacher Reports say the Sox have "heavily scouted" Shota Imanaga... Imanaga, 30, profiles more as a middle-of-the-rotation starter than a frontline arm like Yamamoto. He has a 2.96 ERA and 1.07 WHIP in 1,123.2 innings in Japan, and he was the starter for Team Japan in its win over Team USA in the World Baseball Classic title game.

Here is a recent article that hints that the Sox were still trying to sign Nate up to the point he signed with Texas, but were hampered by budget concerns and the tax line. The initial offer was apparently $51M/3. (He signed for $34M/2.) https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/10/al-notes-garver-eovaldi-red-sox-kirilloff.html

ND can't take any game lightly, but winning out the rest of the season seems very possible. I'm not sure any other top 25 team has played against 4 other top 25 teams, and the Fighting Irish went 2-2 in those games (4 straight games on their schedule). 14-17 Ohio St. 21-14 @ Duke 20-33 @ Louisville 48-20 USC 6-2, right now with these games to play: Pitt (vs a RB who transferred from ND) @ Clemson (not the great team it was a few years back) Wake Forest @ Stanford They need to be careful not to take any of these teams as push-overs. 10-2 likely gets them into a top bowl game.

I doubt we bench Hartman, unless a game is out of reach. We may still have a chance for a nice bowl invite.

Corey Seager and the Silver Bullet Band!

I like what I’m reading, here. If this guy can fix our pitcher development issue, he’ll be a great hire.

Yes, not perfect.

I guess Nails Nate is not perfect.

Night and day. I also think other teams have done similar things as the Astros, but just not to that extreme and not admitting it. Several teams have done a sort of cycle plan, where they go lean for a few years as they rebuild, then spend more for 2-3 years and repeat.

I think the teams that put known inferior teams on the field, hope they surprise and win. It helps for more fan attendance and viewership on cable. (This might be an example of "punting," but punting implies the hopes that you get the ball back and may do better on your next drive. You gain field position by punting. In baseball, that may mean you are just holding off from going "all in" or seriously "more in." It's the teams that put losing teams on the field and hope they lose is what I'd call "tanking." The Astros hoped they would lose enough to get a top 2-3 pick. The did everything they could to put a bad team on the field. (I doubt they ever instructed their manager or players to lose on purpose, but did as much as possible to make sure the team sucked.

I'm fine with deliberately losing with future winning as the goal. I'm never fine with cheating to win.