Maxbialystock

Great play by Rafaela, but the throw was just a tad too far up the line. Throwing all those low pitches to Kirk did not pay off because he fouled a bunch of them off. Finally a 3d out with 2 on. But 30 pitches and just 17 strikes.

Exactly. And better stated than my explanations.

He needs the platoons because of the difference in how some players hit righties vs righties. But platooning only ameliorates the greater and grimmer fact that this lineup is without both Bregman and Devers. You don't think he likes having Rafaela in CF, Abreu in RF, Narvaez behind the plate, Story at SS, and Mayer/Bregman at 3b? I beg to differ. Every team's first line of defense is their pitching, and our first line ain't so hot. Moreover, the first skill a position player must have is hitting. I think Campbell and his many errors would have stuck had not his OPS dropped to .668. Rafaela sticks because of his super defense in CF, but also because his June OPS is .837. Breslow and Cora would have been ecstatic with Devers defense at 1b, no matter how bad it might have been, because of his hitting. Duran with his lousy fielding stays in LF because of last year's OPS and the hope he can get back there. Cora didn't shirk, or so I believe. My take on Devers is that he was headed out the day Bregman was announced as the Sox thirdbaseman, a position Raffy had held for 8 years, which he took great pride in, and which he had been promised he would keep. Cora persuaded him to embrace DH, which Raffy did with great success. Then Breslow asked him to play 1b, which to Raffy was the last straw. The great irony of that is that now the Sox have neither Bregman nor Raffy, and it hurts. Since Bregman's quad was also bad in 2021 and also cost him 2 months on the IL, one has to wonder whether he is worth all that money and the loss of Devers.

Agree completely that you do not in fact think. You opine. So do I.

Good points about the importance of the CBO. But I think JH is just as important. His ownership is the best in Sox history--4 WS wins which both ended the 86 year curse and produced more WS than any other MLB in the same timeframe (2002-2024). DD succeeded because he's good--we can agree on that--and because JH supported him with the highest payroll in MLB. But then 2019 happened--still the biggest payroll, but no postseason. Worse, DD was going to need more than the highest payroll in MLB to fix what went wrong--primarily pitching--in 2019, to say nothing of competing with the Dodgers (who have a lot more money) for Mookie. So JH changed course and signified that by hiring Chaim Bloom of the Rays, who have consistently built competitive teams with one of the lowest payrolls in MLB. If you recall the movie Moneyball, you know JH wanted to hire Billy Beane as his GM/CBO after the 2002 season. What that meant for Chaim Bloom is that his budget was limited, and that trend continues this season, in which the Sox payroll is ranked 12th in MLB. Even worse, spotrac says the the Sox effective payroll (players on on the active roster) is $105M, ranked 19th in MLB.

To me the rest days always did 2 things. They allowed Cora to play one of his benchers and provided both physical and mental relief from the unbelievable stress of playing 6 games a week for 6 months. When he started it in 2018, it seemed to work, especially because back then the games went lasted forever. What the heck do you mean by "demands?" The games make the demands. The pitchers make demands on hitters and vice versa. Defenders have no choice but to defend as well as they are able and baserunners get around the bases as well as they are able. Before every game every player drills on defense, hitting, and pitching--162 games per season. If Cora wanted to sabotage this Sox team by demanding absolutely nothing of his players, he couldn't. Forget all the repetitive pitching, hitting, and defending drills before every game. Players want to excel because of the money, because everything they do is scrutinized by the fans, and because they are in The Show. Oh, and don't forget the huge number of stats and computer programs now in use. Despite all that, Campbell couldn't stick, but you better believe that wasn't on Cora. MLB has by far the longest apprenticeship of any sport. Once a player gets to The Show, he can expect more drills than any player of any other sport.

Honestly, I think Devers was gone the day Bregman was announced as the new third baseman, a position Devers had played for 8 seasons and which he had been promised he would keep. DH was a great interim fit thanks to Cora convincing Raffy to embrace it. When Casas went down, Breslow saw the value in moving Devers to 1b so Yoshida, who is paid $18.5M and can only DH, could replace him as DH. That all made sense to Breslow does to most of Talksox, but I think Cora realized the move to 3b was a bridge too far. In fact, playing 1b did not make sense to Devers because he had been lied to about 3b, agreed to be DH where he was flourishing, and now was being asked to play a position he'd never played before. Raffy has yet to play 1b for the Giants, but no doubt inevitably will. In 9 home games with the Giants his OPS is .836 and the Giants are 3-6. That's the same record as the Sox, 3-6, but they have been on the road for all 9 games and without both Raffy and Bregman. Short sample sizes, I agree.

Heckuva point. Thanks. In 2016 the Sox lost to Cleveland, 3 games to none.

We mostly agree. When we don't, it's usually because I'm looking for something to argue about.

Love it. I mean you're just dead wrong, but this is a great conversation starter.

Agree--of course. Love all your specifics. I can only add that right now spotrac says the Sox payroll is ranked 12th and the usable payroll--players who are on the active roster--is ranked 19th in MLB.

I agree it was anything but simple after Devers had been promised he would keep 3b. Cora got him to embrace DH, which worked like gangbusters. Moving again--to 1b and during the season--was just a bridge too far and Raffy dug his feet in. To me the great irony of hiring Bregman, who was having a terrific season, his best since 2019, is that right now the Sox don't have Bregman or Devers. That's called subtraction by addition.

You just don't get it. You're pissed about the Sox wins and losses 2022-25, which is understandable. But you then ignore that Cora managed the best team in Sox history, the year after basically the same team couldn't even get past the ALDS with Farrell managing. That he was suspended by MLB in 2020, when the Sox had a .400 season, and then took the 2021 wild card Sox to the ALCS in direct contrast to Farrell having better teams in 2016 and 2017 and not getting past the ALDS. Most of all, you ignore that DD found Cora and hired him after firing Farrell and that Cora has been retained through 2 more CBO's, CB and Breslow, and even extended. You also ignore that JH, who is far and away the best owner the Sox have ever had, took a new direction after firing DD in 2019, which was to spend less, especially on starters. Right now the Sox overall payroll is ranked 12th in MLB and the effective payroll is ranked 19th. See spotrac.

One more time. JH has never, ever hesitated to fire a manager. He fired 2 managers after just one season. He fired Francona after he won 2 WS. He fired Farrell after winning the WS in 2013 and immediately after the Sox won AL East Division titles in 2016 and 2017. That Cora has had 3 (not 4) CBO's is clear evidence that they, not Cora, were the problem. David Dombrowski was actually pretty doggone successful with 2 division titles (2016 and 2017) and the best Sox season ever in 2018. However, he also had the highest payroll in MLB to work with. In 2019, still with the biggest payroll in MLB, the Sox did not make the postseason. Moreover, to fix that team, keep Mookie, etc was going to take a much larger payroll than what was already the highest in MLB. That's why DD got dumped and Chaim Bloom hired. Sale wasn't the downfall of the Sox, but he was a contributing factor for the 2021-2025 seasons. In the first 3 of those seasons, he wasn't much use to the Sox. In the 2024 season he was huge for the Braves (and was paid by the Sox!). This year he's still the best starter on the Braves and would be 2d best on the Sox. The 2021 season was actually a pretty good one. Thanks to Cora's managing, the Sox were a wild card that made it to the ALCS without a closer. As for 2022-25, the biggest problem has been JH's desire to spend less and get more a la the Rays. Thus Chaim Bloom. But it flat didn't work. Breslow is an improvement over CB if only because he is allowed to make deals CB could not. You gotta like the arrival this year of Bregman, Crochet, Chapman, and Narvaez. On the other other hand I'm convinced that hiring Bregman led directly to Raffy's departure because he had been repeatedly promised he could stay at 3b. Giolito ($40M for 2 years) and Buehler ($21M for 1 year) not good. Dumping Sale not good. As for this season, I must repeat yet again that Cora is missing his two best hitters--Bregman and Devers--and has a pitching staff that is struggling. Plus he is starting 3 rookies and started a 4th before he went back to Worcester. If he had Sale instead of Giolito, you think that might help? Would a healthy Casas help? A healthy Dobbins, Crawford, Slaten, Houck? The Sox effective payroll right now is $105M, 19th in MLB. By all means, come back at me and explain how Cora is really the cause of the Sox mediocrity. And don't forget to explain why Cora had his contract extended by 3 years.

Agree. The 2d quad injury is worrisome. So is the pitching. It was a big gamble to offer Bregman $120M for 3 years. Moreover, as great as Bregman's first 2 months were, the Sox were at 26-26 after the game in which he was injured. By then, I hasten to add, we already knew how good Crochet, Chapman, and Narvaez are. Even had Raffy stayed was there any guarantee the Sox would have improved on .500? I don't think so. The Sox went over .500 because of that 6 game winning streak in which opposing teams scored a total of 8 runs. They didn't need Bregman--or Devers, for that matter.

All of "that" is why Cora hasn't been fired and is on a 3 year extension. Did you know that Farrell was fired after winning a WS in 2013 and winning back to back AL East titles in 2016 and 2017? The guy who fired Farrell is the same guy who hired Cora, who has now managed under 3 different CBO's. You can take your ".500 manager" and stick it where the moon don't shine.

1. JH has never, ever been hesitant to fire a manager. He fired 2 different managers after 1 season each. He fired Francona after he won 2 WS. He fired Farrell whose Sox won the WS in 2013 and won the division title in 2016 and 2017. 2. Cora managed the best Sox team ever in 2018. 3 years later--and the year after the Sox went 24-36 (.400) under an interim manager--the Sox got the wild card with 92 wins. And, unlike Farrell who had better teams in 2016 and 2017 and got blown away in the ALDS both years, Cora managed the Sox to a wild card win over the Yankees, a 3-1 ALDS win over the 100 win Rays, and lost 4-2 to the Astros in the ALCS. Without a closer. 3. JH knows as I know and very few others on Talksox appear to know, that after paying top dollar (highest payroll) in 2018 and 2019, he fired DD and hired CB with the clear intent to see if CB could do more with less, as the Rays have become masters of. It didn't work because CB was caught between the devil (JH) and the deep blue sea (where you sink or swim on your ability to find bargains). 3. I think Breslow is better than Chaim Bloom, despite some bad decisions. Adding Crochet, Bregman, Chapman, and Narvaez has been a real godsend. 4. However, the Sox payroll is still ranked 12th in MLB @ $192M and the effective payroll (not counting those on the IL and other nonplayers still being paid) is $105M. Included in those numbers are two significant overpays, Story and Yoshida, from the CB era. 5. Thus is the Sox pitching staff a trainwreck and the lineup without Bregman and Devers. Cora is starting 3 rookies and earlier started a 4th. That the Sox are just 2 games under .500 is amazing.

For right now and until the Sox decide they have no hope of the postseason, I think they should stay with Bregman (when he returns) at 3b, Story at SS, Mayer at 2b, and whoever (Toro/Gonzalez/Campbell) at 1b. It wouldn't bother me to move Mayer to SS and Story to 2b. I have always said hitting is more important than defense, but right now the Sox pitching needs all they help they can get. With that infield and an outfield of Anthony, Rafaela, and Abreu and Narvaez/Wong catching the Sox would have an above average defense. I also kind of like this lineup: 1. Abreu RF, 2. Ref/Yoshida DH, 3. Bregman 3b, 4 Gonzalez/Toro 1b, 5. Narvaez C, 6. Anthony LF, 7 Rafaela CF, 8 Mayer SS/2b, and 9 Story SS/2b.

Bullpen is broken. Fitts, as bad as he is/was, gave up 2 runs in 4 IP. Guerrero gave up 2 runs in 2 outs and left 2 runners on.

Looks to me as though he's got good stuff and command. His ERA coming in was 2.88.

Ever heard of JDM? He was always a sucker for righty's slider outside the zone. Plate discipline carries the wrong connotation when a player must decided in microseconds whether or not to swing. Once the batter swings, there's the small matter of hitting a round ball with a round bat squarely. I'm not happy with Duran's K's and in fact think he's expendable.

No doubt. But I expected worse today.

No doubt. I, on the other hand, would celebrate because I not only got the ball to the plate, but somewhere near the strike zone.

2 runs in 4 IP, hardly.

He drove in 2 runs.