Maxbialystock

You just don't get it. You're pissed about the Sox wins and losses 2022-25, which is understandable. But you then ignore that Cora managed the best team in Sox history, the year after basically the same team couldn't even get past the ALDS with Farrell managing. That he was suspended by MLB in 2020, when the Sox had a .400 season, and then took the 2021 wild card Sox to the ALCS in direct contrast to Farrell having better teams in 2016 and 2017 and not getting past the ALDS. Most of all, you ignore that DD found Cora and hired him after firing Farrell and that Cora has been retained through 2 more CBO's, CB and Breslow, and even extended. You also ignore that JH, who is far and away the best owner the Sox have ever had, took a new direction after firing DD in 2019, which was to spend less, especially on starters. Right now the Sox overall payroll is ranked 12th in MLB and the effective payroll is ranked 19th. See spotrac.

One more time. JH has never, ever hesitated to fire a manager. He fired 2 managers after just one season. He fired Francona after he won 2 WS. He fired Farrell after winning the WS in 2013 and immediately after the Sox won AL East Division titles in 2016 and 2017. That Cora has had 3 (not 4) CBO's is clear evidence that they, not Cora, were the problem. David Dombrowski was actually pretty doggone successful with 2 division titles (2016 and 2017) and the best Sox season ever in 2018. However, he also had the highest payroll in MLB to work with. In 2019, still with the biggest payroll in MLB, the Sox did not make the postseason. Moreover, to fix that team, keep Mookie, etc was going to take a much larger payroll than what was already the highest in MLB. That's why DD got dumped and Chaim Bloom hired. Sale wasn't the downfall of the Sox, but he was a contributing factor for the 2021-2025 seasons. In the first 3 of those seasons, he wasn't much use to the Sox. In the 2024 season he was huge for the Braves (and was paid by the Sox!). This year he's still the best starter on the Braves and would be 2d best on the Sox. The 2021 season was actually a pretty good one. Thanks to Cora's managing, the Sox were a wild card that made it to the ALCS without a closer. As for 2022-25, the biggest problem has been JH's desire to spend less and get more a la the Rays. Thus Chaim Bloom. But it flat didn't work. Breslow is an improvement over CB if only because he is allowed to make deals CB could not. You gotta like the arrival this year of Bregman, Crochet, Chapman, and Narvaez. On the other other hand I'm convinced that hiring Bregman led directly to Raffy's departure because he had been repeatedly promised he could stay at 3b. Giolito ($40M for 2 years) and Buehler ($21M for 1 year) not good. Dumping Sale not good. As for this season, I must repeat yet again that Cora is missing his two best hitters--Bregman and Devers--and has a pitching staff that is struggling. Plus he is starting 3 rookies and started a 4th before he went back to Worcester. If he had Sale instead of Giolito, you think that might help? Would a healthy Casas help? A healthy Dobbins, Crawford, Slaten, Houck? The Sox effective payroll right now is $105M, 19th in MLB. By all means, come back at me and explain how Cora is really the cause of the Sox mediocrity. And don't forget to explain why Cora had his contract extended by 3 years.

Agree. The 2d quad injury is worrisome. So is the pitching. It was a big gamble to offer Bregman $120M for 3 years. Moreover, as great as Bregman's first 2 months were, the Sox were at 26-26 after the game in which he was injured. By then, I hasten to add, we already knew how good Crochet, Chapman, and Narvaez are. Even had Raffy stayed was there any guarantee the Sox would have improved on .500? I don't think so. The Sox went over .500 because of that 6 game winning streak in which opposing teams scored a total of 8 runs. They didn't need Bregman--or Devers, for that matter.

All of "that" is why Cora hasn't been fired and is on a 3 year extension. Did you know that Farrell was fired after winning a WS in 2013 and winning back to back AL East titles in 2016 and 2017? The guy who fired Farrell is the same guy who hired Cora, who has now managed under 3 different CBO's. You can take your ".500 manager" and stick it where the moon don't shine.

1. JH has never, ever been hesitant to fire a manager. He fired 2 different managers after 1 season each. He fired Francona after he won 2 WS. He fired Farrell whose Sox won the WS in 2013 and won the division title in 2016 and 2017. 2. Cora managed the best Sox team ever in 2018. 3 years later--and the year after the Sox went 24-36 (.400) under an interim manager--the Sox got the wild card with 92 wins. And, unlike Farrell who had better teams in 2016 and 2017 and got blown away in the ALDS both years, Cora managed the Sox to a wild card win over the Yankees, a 3-1 ALDS win over the 100 win Rays, and lost 4-2 to the Astros in the ALCS. Without a closer. 3. JH knows as I know and very few others on Talksox appear to know, that after paying top dollar (highest payroll) in 2018 and 2019, he fired DD and hired CB with the clear intent to see if CB could do more with less, as the Rays have become masters of. It didn't work because CB was caught between the devil (JH) and the deep blue sea (where you sink or swim on your ability to find bargains). 3. I think Breslow is better than Chaim Bloom, despite some bad decisions. Adding Crochet, Bregman, Chapman, and Narvaez has been a real godsend. 4. However, the Sox payroll is still ranked 12th in MLB @ $192M and the effective payroll (not counting those on the IL and other nonplayers still being paid) is $105M. Included in those numbers are two significant overpays, Story and Yoshida, from the CB era. 5. Thus is the Sox pitching staff a trainwreck and the lineup without Bregman and Devers. Cora is starting 3 rookies and earlier started a 4th. That the Sox are just 2 games under .500 is amazing.

For right now and until the Sox decide they have no hope of the postseason, I think they should stay with Bregman (when he returns) at 3b, Story at SS, Mayer at 2b, and whoever (Toro/Gonzalez/Campbell) at 1b. It wouldn't bother me to move Mayer to SS and Story to 2b. I have always said hitting is more important than defense, but right now the Sox pitching needs all they help they can get. With that infield and an outfield of Anthony, Rafaela, and Abreu and Narvaez/Wong catching the Sox would have an above average defense. I also kind of like this lineup: 1. Abreu RF, 2. Ref/Yoshida DH, 3. Bregman 3b, 4 Gonzalez/Toro 1b, 5. Narvaez C, 6. Anthony LF, 7 Rafaela CF, 8 Mayer SS/2b, and 9 Story SS/2b.

Bullpen is broken. Fitts, as bad as he is/was, gave up 2 runs in 4 IP. Guerrero gave up 2 runs in 2 outs and left 2 runners on.

Looks to me as though he's got good stuff and command. His ERA coming in was 2.88.

Ever heard of JDM? He was always a sucker for righty's slider outside the zone. Plate discipline carries the wrong connotation when a player must decided in microseconds whether or not to swing. Once the batter swings, there's the small matter of hitting a round ball with a round bat squarely. I'm not happy with Duran's K's and in fact think he's expendable.

No doubt. But I expected worse today.

No doubt. I, on the other hand, would celebrate because I not only got the ball to the plate, but somewhere near the strike zone.

2 runs in 4 IP, hardly.

He drove in 2 runs.

I agree, but I also think this lineup misses Bregman a lot more than Devers, and Bregman is due back soon. But even that won't help if the pitching doesn't get better.

Actually, the Sox plummeted to 30-35 with Raffy but no Bregman. They came back to 38-36 with a terrific 6 game winning streak which depended heavily on brilliant pitching. Devers contributed nothing to those wins. Wait, wait, I got that wrong. Devers helped by not playing 3b. In the Sox 6 game winning streak the Sox gave up 8 freaking runs! Since the winning streak they have given up 38 runs in 7 games. Raffy's OPS has dropped 100 pts since June 24.

The "oh do we miss Raffy" whining is getting tiresome. We do miss him, but we miss Bregman even more. Without Bregman following him the lineup, Raffy's OPS has dropped 100 points. Meanwhile, our pitching is killing us. Crochet was brilliant in 7 shutout innings last night, but then Weissert gave up a game-tying dinger and then Wilson gave up a game-winning 2 run dinger. That loss was almost exactly like the one Monday night when the Sox started the game by scoring 3 runs in the top of the 1st, only to have Buehler give up 5 runs in the bottom of the 1st. The Sox nevertheless tied the game in the 6th, only to have Whitlock give up 4 more runs in the 8th. The Sox have 13 pitchers on the roster and just 3 can be relied upon--Crochet, Chapman, and Bello.

Who's actually saying that? Very few. I thought Devers was terrific as the DH and having a career year and didn't miss a game. So of course he's a loss. However, the Sox were paying him $30M to be DH and paying Yoshida $18 when he can only be the DH. That's a lot of money for a DH. We also know Raffy did not want to move to 1b. In addition, I think Devers was on his way out the day Bregman was announced as our 3d baseman, a position Raffy had played for 8 years and been promised he could keep play there. And let's not forget that the Sox are also without Bregman, who followed Raffy in the lineup and made him better. Since Bregman went on the IL, Raffy's OPS has dropped 100 points.

Giant's are 3 and 4 since Devers' arrival. Sox are 3-5 without him--all 8 games on this west coast trip. Sox are also missing Bregman.

Devers OPS has dropped 100 pts since Bregman went on the IL. And that's our problem in the 2 spot now--no Bregman batting 3d.

Sox payroll is currently $192M, ranked 13th in MLB. It was the highest in MLB during DD's time in Boston. Of that $192M, $73M is on the IL, plus other payees are also not on the active roster. The active roster payroll is $105M, 19th in MLB. You could be right about Devers and 40-40, but that's only because the pitching stinks. When it's good, the Sox can be very good. Who do you plan on selling? Bello? Bregman? Crochet? Anthony? Mayer? Campbell? Narvaez? Rafaela? Abreu?

The Sox payroll, $192M, is ranked 13th in MLB, and $73M of that is on the IL. So the Sox active payroll is $105M, ranked 19th. In 2019 the Sox Payroll was the highest in MLB. So I think it is unarguable that Breslow is being asked to do more with less. On the other hand, when badly missed Bregman returns (early July), the Sox lineup will be a very decent Bregman 3b, Story SS, Mayer 2b, Gonzalez 1b, Narvaez C, Anthony LF, Rafaela CF, Abreu RF, and Ref/Yoshida at DH. That lineup will have good hitting and good defense if they can stay healthy. I am assuming that rookies Mayer and especially Anthony will improve at the plate. The big problem is the pitching. Right now Crochet and Bello (yes, Bello) are the only reliable starters although Giolito has gone 18 innings in his last 3 starts while giving up 5 ER. Buehler looks awful, and Dobbins and others are on the IL. The bullpen has turned back into pumpkins. Given all of the above and despite some bad moves, I like what Breslow is doing. He just needs more time and money on the pitching. I also like those 3 rookies--Campbell, Mayer, and Anthony--courtesy of the CB regime. I think he also gets credit for Bello and Abreu.

Still trying to change the subject when I caught you in an ill informed wisecrack about Mayer. Mayer just got his 3d hit, and has scored or driven in both Sox runs in this game. Braves score 0 runs in 7 IP off Crochet and 3 runs in 3 innings off the bullpen. The hitting sure wasn't great tonight, but there can be absolutely no question the bullpen blew the game. Last night the Sox scored 5 runs and lost by 4 because the starter and bullpen both stunk Against the 3d best pitching staff in MLB, the Giants, they scored 14 runs in 3 games. Not too shabby. But they lost 2 of 3 games because of the pitching staff. And they did that without Bregman or Devers. You can't expect to lose those two and be as good as you were before. When Bregman returns (early July0, the Sox will have the ingredients for a good lineup. Time will tell. Meanwhile, I'm happy to root for the Sox who are playing now, even the pitchers. Crochet was terrific tonight. About your "see the ball, hit the ball." Ted Williams had a different thought when he said there is no harder skill in any sport than trying to hit a round ball with a round bat squarely.

Trying to change the subject? Won't work. You actually said that Mayer in this game demonstrated he does not know how to hit despite having a triple and a single.

First game thread I've seen in a long time in which no one wants the Sox to win.

You're seriously critiquing the guy who has 2 of the Sox 3 hits and 4 of the Sox 6 total bases, who's also a rookie with under 40 freaking games?