Maxbialystock

Complaints about the ump are laughable. The simple fact is that Tillman shuts our guys down whenever there is an RISP. Men on first and second, and Bradley strikes out looking then Young swinging at the 3d strike. Later Ortiz comes up with Pedroia on 2B and strikes out swinging. Bradley has struck out twice and could easily strike out a couple more times. Price, on the other, has pitched very well except that, the one time he gets a man on, he immediately throws a gopher ball to, wait for it, Machado. So far the Orioles, especially Tillman, look tough, and our guys look like babes in the woods. Umpire, my aunt fanny--that complaint is the last refuge of fans of losers (in this game, anyway).

Orioles lost 3 straight at home against the Jays, but they have been giving our guys a hard time for a long time. Tonight 6 lefties and 3 righties go against the Orioles righty Tillman: Betts, Pedroia, Bogaerts, Ortiz, Ramirez, Bradley, Young, Shaw (batting 8th!), Vazquez. This is the first game of a 10 game home stand against the Orioles, Mariners, and White Sox--3, 3, and 4 games. Then no travel day to play at the Rangers and Rays home parks A total of 16 straight days of baseball to finish up the month of June with June 30 being an off day. Good to have Price going tonight, but Tillman is pretty darn good too.

Definitely worth mentioning. To date an insanely good year. But I think he's actually gaining weight in season.

I like Bogey sliding into first base, but I'm very afraid you are right as rain. He shouldn't.

Bogaerts is human and therefore subject to error, but he is anything but lackadaisacal. This is a guy who slides into 1B when he thinks it will help. A guy who, on a sure GIDP by Ortiz, overran 2b and took 3B because he realized the shift made the Twins vulnerable to that play. You want lackadaiscal, go somewhere else.

I said marginalized if not eliminated and I still think that. Calling balls and strikes is central to the game of baseball.

Possibly. My guess is Farrell was saving him for the save once the Sox scored. If Farrell had used Kimbrel in the 10th and someone else in the 11th--let's say to save a 1 run lead--and that guy had blown the save, there would be an outcry that Kimbrell was wasted in the 10th. The other day in San Francisco, Farrell used Ortiz to pinch-hit for Young, for which there was an outcry that he went in too soon. My guess, only that, at the time was he wanted to be sure to get Ortiz in the game when the score was close, it was late, and there were men on base. If he had waited and let Young bat and Young hit into a GIDP, the outcry would have been, "why in the world didn't he get Ortiz in there?" I don't think Farrell is a genius or perfect, just that, like all managers, he almost certainly has good reasons for making the moves he does. I am simply inclined to give all managers the benefit of the doubt unless it's something egregious.

Meh. His defense at 1B didn't surprise me because he is an infielder. His hitting however has been a disappointment, so I agree Hanley has been a surprise, just not a good one. Also, what is with his dramatic wave of the glove after getting a throw on the short hop? Is that necessary? Today it sure looked as though he cost a couple of runs even though the error was given to Bogaerts. That ball was flat in his glove and came out as a result of the big motion.

Heck, this team is full of surprises, mostly good, but some bad. Wright is a good choice, but so is Ortiz, likewise Pedroia. To me the big surprise is Bogaerts. Forget the hitting and maybe even, finally, the dingers. What I love to see is his enthusiasm, some of which I think comes from Pedroia. The kid just wants to play the game well--all of it--and almost seems to enjoy a straightforward defensive play as much as a big hit. Heck, he is even running the bases with elan. Today, June 11, he prevented a double play and took 3b by simply being aware that the big shift left the Twins vulnerable if Bogaerts just ran thru 2B and on to 3b.

What a super idea. Finally, finally, a way out of the hitting and scoring woes for the Sox this year. Hanley batting 5th must explain why the Sox lead MLB in scoring--oh, wait, that wasn't your point was it?

Shaw is batting 8th today against a righty with Young moved up to 7th. I think HanRam is one hole in the lineup and of course whoever is catching. Shaw might be.

Young moves up to 7th and Shaw to 8th against a righty. Probably because shaw clearly has trouble with outside pitches.

This season, which is what this thread is presumably about, has its own allure. Can anyone remember the last time when four of the top ten AL players--measured by WAR--were Red Sox and that #1 was/is Bogaerts? The other three are Ortiz, Betts, and JBJ. Two more, Pedroia and Shaw, are in the top 20. The Sox also have one pitcher, Wright, in the top ten, but after that #51 and #60 are Porcello and Kimbrell, then Tazawa at #80.

Not a big fan of velocity. I think location and variety are more important. Bumgarner almost shut us down and didn't throw anything faster than 89 mph.

That is why I read this thread. Great synopsis of more than a decade.

Vazquez a surprise choice but a good one. No earned runs, and the unearned one was from HanRam's errant throw and not a PB.

An imperfect strike zone has existed in baseball at every level for maybe 140 years, as has the right of managers and players and fans to disagree with calls by umpires. I like it that way because I think it's part of the experience and appeal of the game. If balls and strikes are called automatically, umpires will be marginalized if not eliminated, and I think that would be a real loss.

You're right. My introductory paragraph was over the top and unfair. It was not intended to call you a dope, but I apologize nevertheless. I should have said something like, "your points disagree with what I understand to be the fundamental nature of baseball."

Once again, thanks for your forthrightness, especially your use of terms like "engineering and management" and "minimizing failures" and "not acceptable in any industry I ever worked in." All those tell me you have a fundamental misunderstanding of baseball. MLB is big business, but it is also a sport and even entertainment, but entertainment that is filled with uncertainties, which are actually the quintessence of baseball's appeal. Good, competitive teams can get to the playoffs by winning just 60% of the time. If a batter has 13% failure, he is the best batter in the history of baseball. Right now you can lead the AL in hitting if you are out 65% of the time. Pitchers, by the very nature of balls and strikes, are expected to miss the strike zone more often than hit it. They can also make a great pitch and get hit. They can throw a pitch well outside the strike zone and get hit. Hitters and pitchers both live with the near certainty that they will be inconsistent from game to game, month to month, year to year. Managers make decisions based on the best information availalble--and it is very good information--with the knowledge that the pinch hitter probably won't get a hit and the relief pitcher has a good chance of of not getting thru an inning or even a single batter. Wealthy teams can invest lots of money in players who just don't pan out, but they still have to keep paying them year after year. Umpires, just like players, are not out there to be perfect because humans are imperfect. They put that hat and uniform on to indicate they are the decision makers on balls and strikes, hits and outs. Managers' and players' periodic explosions notwithstanding, it's a ball or strike or hit or out simply because the umpire says so (granted, replays have changed this somewhat). If their error rate is indeed 13%, they are the most reliable parts of the game.

Thanks to you and mvp78 for clarifying your perspective. I get mad if we get screwed on calls on balls and strikes, but that has never caused me to go away from a game in progress. Indeed, to me that is part of the experience because I accept the umpire's role. I will, however, go away if our pitcher is giving away tons of runs and an insurmountable lead. On rare occasions I even do that when the Sox go up by, say, 10 runs. I like the drama of the game, the great plays in the field, the matchups between pitchers and hitters, the weather and/or the look of the ball park. I even like to watch the way umpires call the game when it is well done. Last night I was furious when an outside pitch was called against HanRam in the 9th and therefore enjoyed the payback when the Giants LF dropped the fly ball for a 2 run error. I got mad again when other outside pitches, especially against JBJ, were called strikes in the 9th inning, especially because I saw few or none of those outside strikes called for Price when he was in.

Let's not forget, however, that when Nava was a rookie (or a newbie) he once hit a 100 mph fastball from Verlander for an opposite field single. In 2013 we all loved him.

1. The opinion pieces I've read are simply being provocative. It's a fun topic. A couple or more were on a minor league experiment done a year or two ago when balls and strikes were called by a computer or whatever. But the guy who set that test up and who has been the heaviest advocate of doing this is, guess what, an entrepreneur who wants to sell his system to MLB. 2. I don't doubt the 99% to within an inch numbers, but do doubt how well the computer will match the strike zone to each and every player if only because I don't think the strike zone is all that well defined at the top and bottom. 3. In the end, however, I will still prefer the umpire making the calls because that's what he is there for. With all the mistakes umpires have made over the years, and some of them have been lulus, they have not kept baseball from being a great sport to watch and to play. Player and manager histrionics notwithstanding, to me the simple fact is that it's a ball or strike or hit or out simply because a human being, duly appointed, says it is and that's an important part of the game. In the most popular and watched and played and refereed sport in the world, football/soccer, there is just one referee on the field to make all those crucial calls. Heck, he even keeps the time and declares by himself when a half or game is over. The line judges help with offside and similar calls, but that one referee is all-powerful, even when he makes a mistake. 4. All these concessions to technology--including replays in football basketball, baseball, and, I assume hockey--are because of television. I'm grateful to TV because it does a great job of showing us the game, but I don't think it should take over sports the way it now threatens to. Replays in MLB do serve a useful purpose in that they prevent most confrontations over calls and thereby save time, but they are also a big distraction, especially if there are several in a game. I think challenges and replays in the NFL are less of a distraction because half of a game is already consumed by timeouts. Replays in basketball, NBA or NCAA, on the other hand, seem to me to be interminable and a major distraction.

Then we completely disagree and that's fine. I like aggressive baserunning as long as it ain't stupid. HanRam was stupid sometimes last year, and this year it's been mostly Shaw. My rule of thumb is that, if it's a close play but an out, I can live with that.

Really alert play and absolutely clean--he just went down and never came close to going outside the baseline. Plus he had the first rbi double. Plus that terrific catch against the wall in which he slid and did not get hurt. Plus the other goood catch after running over the pitching mound. Back in April I defended him, but only on general principles because I knew nothing about him. Right now he looks like a pretty good all around player and I frankly am surprised. When JBJ was out, I think he also played CF and made a pretty good grab in deep CF. With Castillo struggling and Swihart and Holt on the DL, Young is pretty darn handy to have around.

I think the Giants win this one because of better pitching, and that makes last night's terrific win that much more important. On the off chance someone is actually reading this thread, I offer a somewhat new thought--that Shaw is struggling right now in part because opposing pitchers have discovered his swing/stance are not good for hitting outside pitches. This was particularly noticeable last night. I'm not sure I'm right and welcome comments.