Maxbialystock

Someone said Ziegler has the flu. One presumes the closer was being save to close the 9th. What were the two mistakes?

Maybe, but Abad had been pitching reasonably well.

I hear you, but also wonder why Tazawa threw nothing but fastballs to Forsythe, including the last one in the dead center of the strike zone, then threw two forkballs to Kiermaier to get the final out. Where was the forkball when the count was 0-2 and 1-2 to Forsythe?

If Tazawa is going in to pitch with 2 outs and the bases loaded in the 8th, Farrell either can't use Ziegler or doesn't trust him with men on base.

Can I pick them? Except for blasting Bradley, I was right about the top 5 in our lineup, and I could not be happier about being wrong about Bradley. Heck, I'd love being wrong about the bullpen too. This game ain't over, but that was one huge grand slam by Ramirez, reminiscent of the one Ortiz hit I think in the 2013 ALCS against Detroit.

I haven't watched much because I'm at the office, but the numbers suggest the Sox are in trouble on this one. The Rays have a good bullpen to protect their lead, and Wright looks to be gone by the 5th, which brings in our terrible bullpen. Two on, 1 out. Time for our patented GIDP by Ortiz.

Last of 23 straight days/games without a break and with a fair amount of traveling. With tomorrow off, the whole bullpen should be available today--more's the pity. Then 3 at Oakland, 3 at San Diego, and 3 at Toronto. Sox at 4-6 over last 10 games need this win today. Still only 2 back of the Jays, but also only 1 ahead of the Orioles, 2 ahead of the Tigers, 3 ahead of the Astros, and 4 ahead of the Royals for a wild card slot. Right now I like the first 5 in our lineup but not so much the last 4. Leon is cooling, Young could be OK, Hill is cold, and Bradley is colder.

I see two lefty bats--Ortiz and Bradley--which means Smyly must be a lefty. If Wright gets thru the first unscathed, is there hope? Maybe, but then there's the bullpen whose job seems to be to freely dispense hope to the other team.

If it works, I'm signing up.

That final at bat with Ramirez on 2B with the tying run and two men out was laden with symbolism. Leon is OK as a catcher, but now starts 3/4 games (or more) because of his bat and was pinch-hitting for Holaday because of the fact that he is better batting from the left side against a righty. Leon looked at three straight strikes without even starting a swing. Three excellent strikes, I might add, all on the outside corner. Earlier in the 9th the Rays reliever was having success with breaking balls down, but couldn't quite control them. so now he was throwing heat but not upper 90's heat. What he did have, however, was exquisite control, something none of our pitchers have although sometimes Price comes close. Contrast this at bat with the earlier one in the 8th, Buchholz against Longoria, who only pole-axed one pitch out of the park for a game-winner. Did someone quote Whitey Herzog as saying that the difference between a good manager and a bad one is a great bullpen?

He pisses me off, but I'm wrong. He's a plus at bat, on the bases, and in the field and especially compared the $154M man the Yankees have in CF. The point on the upper cut swing could be dead on.

Odorizzi beat us 5 days ago But against a weaker lineup. He is beatable.

This is true. However, in this case you never said during the 6th inning that ERod should be pulled--only that he was pitching badly. Your one comment in the 6th was that Barnes blew it. This confirms what you said earlier, that in this game--the one on this thread--Farrell really didn't have any good options when his starter blew up in the 6th with no warning. I say again, when your bullpen is basically Kimbrel and Ziegler and a bunch of chocolates, your are screwed if you also have to pull your starter before the 8th inning--unless, as was the case last night, you have a big lead.

As I tried to explain, if you want to get your starters out early, let's say, after 6 innings, and you only have 2 reliable relievers, you can't get there from here. Heck, I think you complained when ERod went out for the 6th the night before last. Did you intend for Ziegler and Kimbrel to cover the final four innings? And how often would you expect to use just those two and no one else to ensure a win? My point is that the choices available to Farrell aren't as easy as you make them out to be. This situation contrasts perfectly with the 2013 playoffs when the Sox pitching staff ERA was 2.00 and the bullpen was pretty much lights out, giving up, I think, 2 runs in 16 innings of work. In the playoffs, knowing you will only play so many games and, more importantly, you will have plenty of off days, you don't need a deep bullpen. Right now the Sox are finishing up 23 games in 23 days, and you seem to be unaware of that.

At the point Barnes entered the game, the Sox had pitched 5 innings and still needed 4 innings and 12 outs. I think the 6th is more middle inning than late. When you say, "middle inning fodder," you essentially mean not worth much, and the problem with that idea is that too many in the current bullpen could be included--Tazawa, Barnes, Ross, Abad, and maybe even Buchholz who is probably a better starter than reliever. That leaves just Kimbrel and Ziegler who are reliable or semi-reliable. Let's not forget that most on this board, probably including you, also believe Farrell stays with his starters too long. So, when you add all those things up--limit the starters, use the bullpen early and often, just two reliable (maybe three) relievers--you have a problem. Nevertheless, it is usually Farrell who is blamed when the pitching--some combination of starters and relievers--gives up too many runs. I on the other hand see managing this team's pitchers as akin to a high wire act, trying to find the right balance between what is available and what is needed.

Back to Barnes--one further thought. He came in with one man out, the Sox up 4-2, the bases loaded, and the hope he could induce a GIDP to get the Sox out of the inning. He actually came really close with that comebacker, except that it bounced so high it was unplayable in terms of getting an out. He had to be frustrated. Then he throws his patented 98 mph fastball to a guy hitting .128 who promptly nails it deep to CF for a triple that drives in 3 more runs, putting the Royals up by 2, followed by another comebacker which is so soft it too turns out to be unplayable even though Barnes made a good effort to go home with it. We think of that 6th inning as kind of a deluge, but to Barnes it was--I'm guessing here--mostly bad luck. He might even argue he did his job by inducing the comebacker for the possible, even likely GIDP but which turned out to be a clean single, a run in. and the bases still loaded. Then he does the right thing to the .128 hitter by throwing a very hard strike, which turns into a disaster. I'm not defending Barnes so much as saying baseball has quirks and can be tough on hitters and pitchers alike. Like when Benintendi makes that spectacular grab over the wall which could have injured him, but did not. Then the very next night he makes a little baserunning error which leads to trying to avoid a tag which leads to a knee injury (the replay looked to me like an ankle injury) which might have him out for the season even though the MRI's, etc say no real damage. Maybe quirky isn't the right word for baseball. Maybe the right word is hard.

I was fine with Betts leading off before but have to agree dropping him closer to the heart of the order makes sense when he is second on the team in rbi's and dingers. And last night Holt was terrific leading off against a righty starter.

Must be an easy win because it's another short game thread.

Porcello just can't seem to stand having a lead.

I'm one of the few who thought Holt leading off made sense. Not because I expected great things, but because it lets Farrell keep the 2 thru 5 positions intact. Plus Holt leading off against righties also makes sense.

Nice bottom part of the order--single, double, double for 2 big runs and still no one out!

Solid 4th for Porcello.

Funny thing, but a bunch of people said no way should Holt bat leadoff, but he has a big rbi so far.

FWIW, this happened last night. We took the lead in the 5th and the Royals came back with a vengeance in the 6th. Two nights in a row when our starters roll over only this time it's still 2-2.

Butterfield, assuming he is still the 3B coach, is back to his aggressive ways. HanRam was out by a mile at the plate and so was Leon.