Maxbialystock

Cut that out. We are supposed to disagree and I really like that notion--all of it.

I looked at the game thread and the comments when Scott went into the game were mixed, beginning with Station13 asking who the heck this guy was. Several pointed out Scott is experienced and good against lefty bats. Someone said it was the bottom of the order. To me there is a huge difference between preserving a win and hoping to win as is the case in a tie game. Also, you refer to Kelly as the shut down guy, but he's the one who gave up the walk, the double, and the triple without getting a single out. How shut down is that? In fact, Scott actually pitched better than Kelly in last night's game. He only gave up a walk and an HBP, plus he got an out. Since Scott and Kelly both stunk only Kelly stunk worse, who would you have sent out to pitch the 8th in a tie game? How about Kimbrel who hadn't pitched since last Thursday?

Actually, if you read the posts starting on page 12, you will see pretty balanced comments before disaster struck. Scott is both experienced and good vs. lefty bats. And let's not forget that disaster actually struck with Kelly in the game. When he went in, there was already 1 out with men on 1st and 2d, a situation which he has faced before--this year--and done well. No runs had scored.

I know what Scott did. He did exactly the same thing Sale did in the 6th inning--put the first two guys on before getting an out. I believe both of them, Scott and Sale, got an HBP in the process of putting two men on base. Then Sale did exactly what Kelly did and gave up a double to bring in those two runs and put the Twins up, 2-1. Also, to me there's a world of difference between a tie game and a 1 run lead for the good guys. In the latter, I'm for pulling out all the stops to preserve the lead and get the win. With a tie game, you are gambling that you will score again.

OK, OK. I just threw that in there to blame the infield instead of Sale. 1B to SS to 1B is always a tough GIDP. My point, however, remains: great as Sale has been since coming to Boston, he wasn't so great in the 6th last night. And we needed him to be great. In the recently completed series at Seattle, who was on a roll when the Sox arrived, Price was great in game 1 and Wright was great in game 3.

Sure he did. it's never the players, and we can safely ignore the 2 for 13 with RISP, the 10 K's, Kelly giving up the extra base hits, Sale weakening in the 6th and giving up 2 runs, etc. But my absolute favorite is the idea that good managers always put players in positions where they can succeed. Poor Scott having to pitch for a manager who doesn't have his best interests at heart. He deserves being sent out with at least an 8 run lead. For that matter, poor Kelly for having to go out to the mound with 2 on and just 1 out and the game tied. And why wasn't Hembree or someone brought in in the 6th when there were also 2 on with 1 out and Sale was clearly struggling? And what about the terrible lineup with the dregs of humanity in the bottom third?

A teacher, huh? Good for you. Great profession. I did some myself, but never for more than 3 years in a row and never for the same subject as the one before. I could have stayed up for the 8th, but had a premonition when Sale gave up 2 runs in the 6th. I think Sale is our best, but in my judgment he should have been tougher in the 6th.

Fascinating discussion about Scott and Cora. My take on the game was that the hitting stunk, pure and simple, so I wasn't so sure we were going to score any more runs. And about the infamous 8th. Scott left the game with the score tied, 1 man out, runners on 1st and 2d, and Kelly coming to the mound, where he has been very good this year when the game is on the line and he inherits baserunners. Does anyone besides me remember the 6th inning when the first two batters got on against Christ Sale, after which he got a ground out and then gave up a 2 run double? Scott and Kelly--at least for those first two runs scored by the Twins in the 8th--did no worse than the great, indomitable Chris Sale did in the 6th inning. I'm sorry, but in my view last night is entirely on the players and not Alex Cora. Chris Sale gave up a 1 run lead in the 6th in a moment of weakness. The lineup stunk all night long. And not one but two relievers--one of whom, Kelly, has closed a few times and has been great coming in with runners on base--gave up 2 runs which were all the Twins needed.

I do think wins are important and, honestly, was a little disappointed with those 2 runs in the 6th. One of guys who scored was HBP. Also, that grounder with no outs should have been a GIDP but was just 1 out. Also, Sale didn't bear down on Escobar with men on 1st and 3 and one out. A double, for crying out loud. I think Sale is a great pitcher and that he largely got screwed last night, but I also think that game goes differently if he were just a little tougher in the 6th inning. If Sale gets thru the 7th with a lead, I think the bullpen does a better job if only because Kimbrel comes into play.

Yup. Among the 11 at bats which produced no hits were some that were actually K's, which are especially painful.

Meh. I think MLB players need to be good at putting bad games behind them because the season is an unbelievable grind. I also think they all love to win and don't like losing at all. After a bad loss like this one, our guys need to focus on the next game. We, on the other hand, have TS on which to unload some of that anger.

I stopped watching around the 7th last night both because of the lateness of the hour and because of an ominous feeling I had that this was going to be one of those games that this year and last happen mostly to Chris Sale. Natick to NC is once again dead wrong blaming last night on the bottom part of the order when they got half the hits and all of the rbi's. I also disagree with the tiredness factor because Monday was a day off and they had over 48 hours between games. Relatedly, there was a discussion somewhere about overusing poor Kimbrel, who as of right now hasn't pitched since last Thursday. Last night would have been a perfect game for him to get a two inning save except that 1) the game was tied, so no lead; 2) Kimbrel doesn't do windows.

I said almost the same thing back on page 4 or thereabouts when he was throwing a no-hitter, then a one-hitter.

Seriously?

Who the hell cares about lefties? These guys can't hit righties.

Thank goodness for game threads which now allow to say that, once again, with Sale pitching a gem, this lineup is an abomination, a pestilence upon the land. I mean infuriating.

Ahem. time for the next game thread to start.

Your guys did exactly that last night after Gray left, I think with 2 on, neither of whom scored. Chapman almost blew it in the 9th, but Judge saved him.

We all agree on next season. But I honestly think there is an upside this year too. Our best DH by far is JDM, and our best 1B is Moreland. That's why I think this move--DFA early--was inevitable. I do think they were willing to give HanRam a little more rope just in case they were wrong and could still use him, but the feeling was it was time for him to go. About finances. Let's not forget that a big chunk of what they save in 2019 they have to pay out in 2018. That is, the Sox will pay Hanley this year wherever he goes, just like Pablo who is currently playing for the San Francisco. In Hanley's case, he is own his own next year, but right now he is a dead loss. This is no doubt why you and others are unhappy wit this move. Why give up a paid-for bat that can maybe help? Just maybe, however, the injured shoulder theory is true. If so, it's smart to let him go and equally smart by others not to scoop him up.

Shows how important pitching depth--especially starters--can be. Sale is probably still our ace this year, but can't hardly buy a win. I don't miss Pom one bit, but am delighted Price, Porcello ERod, and Wright are able to pick up the slack.

Since this thread includes the Yankees, an observation. I watched the Yankees at Nationals Park on TV last night and was impressed with Judge,who I honestly believe has been over-hyped. I specifically mean his fielding. Last night he made a very good sprinting grab of a foul fly that wasn't for from the right field line wall, so Judge went to his knees to slide and stop his forward momentum. But he did in a way that allowed the ball to hit his glove before his knees hit the dirt. Plus it was a long run to get there--the guys has pretty good wheels. He also got the last out of the game on a liner to deep right that he snagged on the run--a snag I doubt Mookie would have made because Judge is 6'8" to Mookie's 5'9" plus maybe 3" for more reach. Men were on 1st and 2d with 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th, so there was a good chance both runners would have scored to tie the game at 4 all if Judge doesn't make that grab. To me height--except in a pitcher--isn't much of an advantage in baseball.

Most of the time you make sense and back that up with good stats, but this time you have gone beyond the pale. There is no way, no how Sox management knows anywhere near as much as people on this board. That's why this thread is called "A Realistic View"--because we are the hard core people (except for me, of course) who really know this team and the players in a way that DD and Cora could not possibly know. They're both newbies. Except for that, I agree with you completely and had not thought of the 2 years angle.

The 2004 and 2007 teams did indeed have great hitting in the postseason--and needed it. The 2013 team had good hitting in the regular season which dropped off in the postseason, where great pitching--ERA of 2.59--carried the day. Plus some great clutch hits by Ortiz mostly, but others too. It's entirely possible Devers won't be "ready" for the postseason this year, but he is still I think our best option at 3b. But I just don't understand the attack on Benintendi, who played a ton last year and contributed a lot--and this year is even better. His OPS of .925 is 14th best in MLB and he got off to a slow start this year. He's also tied for 9th in MLB in rbi's and in runs scored. And he's not ready???????

Agree with Nick and Bellhorn4. Devers needs to stay in Boston and 3B is a good spot for him because we have Moreland for 1b. However, I'm not at all worried about Pom's health because I don't want him back in the rotation--at least, not until he develops a usable changeup. JBJ hitting is indeed a concern. Thornburg at this point is a big "meh" in my book. Pedey could really help--I still believe in him--but I honestly don't see him coming back this year. He missed, what, two full months after the entire offseason to recover, and could only play 2 games?

Meh. So far, June 18, the Sox have the 4th lowest ERA in MLB and, better still, the fewest unearned runs in MLB--12. That's 12 unearned runs out of 263 runs total. it's also 12 unearned runs in 73 games played. I have not yet examined whether any of those unearned runs affected a gameout come or whether any of Devers's errors affected a game outcome. So it seems to me that Devers isn't hurting the team as much as you want us to believe. This might also explain why Cora keeps playing him. Plus I personally do see improvement. Also, there are several on talksox, moonslav among them, who say errors are not the best measure for overall fielding.