Maxbialystock

Sale is not pitching well, but the defense is pathetic. Oh, and Pearce is an idiot.

Changeups working Miley. Sale gave up on his.

Miley is using 5 different pitches. Sale is using 2, slider and fastball.

Astros are teeing off on Sale. Pearce makes a gross error. And the lineup is moribund, helpless, hopeless.

I don’t think it is possible for the Sox to look any more pathetic than they do tonight.

I like Sale's slider--really. But what happened to the changeup which now appears infrequently and usually as a waste pitch?

Bellhorn04 is probably right. Despite moonslav's compelling stats on Price, Vazquez is likely to continue to catch 3 out of 5 games and Leon to catch Sale and Porcello. Interestingly--and FWIW--right now Vazquez has the higher DWAR, .4 vs. .3, and the higher WAR, .9 vs. .2. I can only conclude that the higher DWAR for Vazquez is because he has the higher % for throwing out base stealers--44% vs. 25%. And apparently passed balls have no bearing on DWAR because Vazquez has 6 and Leon 0.

Well then we disagree. I think Leon's catching brings more value to the team's defense than JBJ's fielding--so much so that I also think Leon brings more value to the team, period. Leon can get by with a weak bat. JBJ cannot. I do not however disagree that right now with this team JBJ has enough value to continue in centerfield because replacing him out there is tricky. Leon, on the other hand, good as he is, is the #2 catcher because Vazquez ain't that bad defensively and is swinging a good bat. However, in today's game thread, I opined that against the Astros I would have Leon catch all three games. Sale, Price, and ERod will be the 3 starters.

Before I forget, well done Sox and of course station13!

Undeniably poor play--bad roster--is a big factor. But you are dead wrong if you don't think demographics and the size of your fan base don't matter. I don't know if I would call Baltimore a failing city, but their population in 1950--right before the Orioles arrived--was 950K. Today it is 602K. DC also peaked in 1950 at 802K and fell to 572K in 2000, but now is back up to 702K. Plus a whole lot of people simply moved to Montgomery County, Fairfax County, Arlington County, Prince Georges County, Alexandria, Loudon County, and even Stafford County (from which two of our staff commute every day to our office in Arlington, maybe 3 miles DC). I think Angelos has not been a good owner, hence his unwillingness now to build a good team, but I also think he isn't wrong about the demographics.

Orioles payroll is 4th from the bottom. Peter Angelos has been furious at MLB ever since they brought a 3d Washington team (the first two ended up in Minneapolis and Arlington (TX) to DC. This one is is pretty good and drawing fans, many of them away from Camden Yards. Right now the Orioles average attendance is in Rays territory--16K/game. The Rays bring in 14.5K/game. In 2001 the Orioles were drawing 38.7K/game. In 2005 they drew 32.4K/game and the new Washington Nationals drew 33.7K/game. The Orioles franchise goes back to 1901 and the creation of the American League--and were called the Milwaukee Brewers and just a year later they became the infamous St Louis Browns for 52 years. They almost went bankrupt, but found a home in Baltimore, where they have now been for 65 years This is why I think of Baltimore as a good baseball town, but of course what really helped them was being close to the National Capital Region, whose population has grown exponentially since World War II. I also think Camden Yards is a terrific ball park. Fairfax County, where I live, had a population of 41K in 1940, and is now at 1.1M. And most of Fairfax County is within 60 miles of Camden Yards. Unfortunately, and this helps explain why the Orioles attendance keeps plunging, driving those 60 miles must be done basically during rush hour for night games. Thus I'm looking at my apple map which tells me that, while the Orioles are 41 miles away, it takes over 2 hours to get there. And don't forget that most night games start at 7 and can easily go to 11 pm, which means getting home after midnight. Montgomery County in Maryland (but is basically in the outskirts of DC) was at 84K in 1940 and today is at 1M and change. They too find the Nationals a better option, plus they have lots of DC Metro stops (more than Fairfax County), and Nationals Park has their own Metro stop. All of the above makes Nationals Ballpark, which is also a good (but not as good) venue, a much more attractive option.

Time to hop a plane and head for Houston. 3 of 4 tougher than it should have been, but it's still 3 of 4. Sure looks like the next three starters will be Sale, Price, and ERod. Me, I'd have Leon catch all three games, but I'm fine with whatever Cora decides. JDM still day to day but leaning toward IL, I'm afraid. I like the way Cora is passing the DH slot around. I also like that he keeps playing guys whose bats are cold because, like Pearce and just maybe JBJ, they might heat up. I'd say Beni's hitting has really fallen off in May, but his OPS for the month is a respectable if not exciting .802. If ERod's last start was an anomaly, Cora has 4 good to very good starters plus Weber, a decent bullpen, and enough hitting if not yet back at 2018 levels. In other words, this is as good a time as any to get back in the ring with the Astros.

Yes, sort of. Remember, it's the Jays bullpen. But 3 hits are sure nice to see. Finally.

Sure have. Another day off for JDM, so Betts gets to DH, Beni to CF, and JBJ to RF. Pearce and JBJ maybe coming around, but it's hard to tell against the Jays. Still, it's nice to see those solid hits (and the cheap ones too).

Why do you insist he doesn't listen to you when he does? No Weber in the 7th.

Porcello has pitched on heckuva game. 1 run in 6 innings and when we needed it. Meanwhile the lineup is just so-so.

Miserable at bats by Moreland and Bogie.

Gidp. Just like last night.

2 on, no outs. Like last night—I sure hope not.

No, it certainly wasn't my plan, which was and is to promote the value of Leon, of whom I have been dismissive in the past. This season has demonstrated--to me, anyway--how much more valuable a good defensive catcher is than any, repeat any, good defensive center fielder.

Are you intentionally (and vastly) over-simplifying this. Of course there is room for both. Heck, right now you can make a good case for putting both in the lineup, as scary as that seems. I started this thread mostly to say that a good defensive catcher is more valuable than a good defensive centerfielder--especially on this team in this season. Ironically I was also forced to say that, because Vazquez is hitting so well and isn't terrible as a defensive catcher, JBJ is even more likely than Leon to be in the lineup for any given game.

Heck, I was skeptical. I have relentlessly attacked the notion of CERA in the past. But no more.

Thank you for saying that about winning the WS. I guess this means the Yankees should provide a footnote next to the 27 so people will know a lot of them were just good luck. In other words, I think your thesis is dead wrong. I am perfectly happy giving the Yankees full credit for the 27, but it wasn't bad luck that has held them to 1 WS since 2000. Nope. It's all those darn wild card teams plus the sheer quantity of teams making it to the postseason. Way back when 2 of 16 played in the WS, period. Now it's 10 of 30 playing in the wild card, the division series, the league series, and finally the world series. Can't disagree with the first paragraph because you could be right on all counts.

Short and sweet (a rarity for me), my vote is for Leon both ways because this year for the first time I can see the difference Leon makes with the rotation, which is huge. JBJ could be the greatest defensive CF is MLB history, which he certainly is not, and Leon would still be more valuable on defense because pitching is the dominant factor in any team's defense and gets tested roughly 120 times per game. And good catchers, as we have seen with Leon, make a difference on how effective those 120 pitches are (even though the lion's share of the work is by the pitchers). Centerfielders get tested--non-routine plays--maybe 2 or 3 times a game, if that. For JBJ to be worth more than Sandy, I think his OPS would have to be at least .800. The only complication to my thesis is that on this team Vazquez is still the #1 catcher because of his better hitting, and in my opinion JBJ is still the #1 centerfielder, despite his weak hitting.

I agree with a700hitter, assuming he isn't being facetious. Last year's Yankees were very good, and this year's are too despite the injuries. I'd say they are back, but of course I also don't think they will return to the kind of dominance that led to 5 straight WS wins, etc. John Henry has definitely made a difference, which is why under his ownership the Sox have won 4 WS (2004, 2007, 2013, and 2018) to the Yankees 1 (2009).