Maxbialystock

Actually, that monkey's on your back because most folks would qualify any criticism of Devers' fielding with a comment on his overall value to the team. You provided no qualifying comment, so the inevitable inference to be drawn is that his hitting is of less importance than those errors. I repeat that I found those two most recent errors--and the most recent one by Bogaerts--to be very frustrating because they contributed to losses. But I recognize that for both of them their hitting more than compensates.

Actually, you are also very insightful--stunningly so. Whereas all other baseball fans tolerate and even like errors, you stand out as a beacon of light, advocating error-free baseball. What's next, pitchers who never give up hits or walks or wild pitches? Hitters who never strike out? I will readily admit that Devers' two most recent errors pissed me off too, but you are absolutely and completely looney tunes to focus on his errors and, by doing so, completely ignoring his overall value to this team. His WAR (wins above replacement) of 2.6 is easily the highest on this team and his total bases, 129, are the most in MLB. FYI, Brooks Robinson committed 263 errors and never fewer than 10 in a given season. Of the 16 MLB thirdbasemen with the most games/innings played in MLB this season, Devers is ranked 2d in range factor. He has 6 errors, but Hayes (of the Pirates) has 7 errors and the highest DWAR (+.7) among MLB thirdbasemen. Devers' DWAR is 0.

That's what you gleaned? That he didn't get a quality start? You and the scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz have much in common.

And the weird thing is, Old Red will not be offended by my heavily facetious post. He honestly believes that closers and closers alone win games and that the first 8 innings of any game are basically irrelevant. Same goes for hitting and fielding in the 9th and later innings--unimportant if a closer is not involved in a win. On the other hand, I will confess that I have always enjoyed the great closers the Sox have had in the past, and especially Uehara in 2013. Barnes was great last year before his precipitous fall from grace. On the other hand, as I keep harping on, last year's postseason is prima facie evidence that closers can be irrelevant. The Sox won six terrific games without a save and lost 5 games in which the only blown save was way back in the 6th inning, long before the arrival of a potential closer. And, as I keep reminding Old Red and he keeps ignoring, the Sox began this season with not one but two experienced closers. They bombed--badly. So others got a shot and fared little better. Now apparently Cora has drawn the line on Whitlock closing for three good reasons: 1) he has never demonstrated he can be a reliable closer; 2) he has demonstrated he can be a good starter; 3) and, mostly importantly--which Old Red simply refuses to see--it's a 9 inning game and pitchers who can go 5 or more good innings are more valuable than pitchers who basically pitch one inning, no matter how well. Houck might be the best choice at closing, but we don't know that he would be a good closer, plus he seems to be very effective as a long reliever.

You just don't get it, do you? Not only did Whitlock not get any K's tonight, he is even farther away from being the closer. I mean, what could be worse than that he had a quality start? If he has one more quality start, thereby proving how ignorant Cora is, Cora should be summarily gotten rid of. This has to be one of the worst games this season. I'm now firmly in agreement with the wisdom and insight of Old Red. Whitlock must be dragged to the bullpen if that's what it takes. Let Sawamura or one of the other relievers start.

I prefer balls in play because it's fewer pitches per out. Plus fewer walks.

I didn't say so at the time, but I agree with you. I like Cordero's bat, but he doesn't make the tough plays at 1b. Also, Bogaerts made a ton of errorless plays in the game.

One more time. The Sox had a surprisingly excellent postseason last year, beating the Yankees in the wild card, taking 3 of 4 from the Rays in the ALDS, and winning 2 of 6 vs. the Astros in the ALCS. They were 6 and 5 in the postseason and had zero saves in the 6 wins. They had one blown save in the 5 losses, but it occurred in the 6th inning, long before a closer would have been used. Or how about the great Kimbrel, whose ERA in the magnificent 2018 postseason was a nasty 5.91? He still got 6 freaking saves thanks to others on that team like Kelly (ERA .79 while pitching more innings than Kimbrel), Eovaldi with that incredible relief effort vs. the Dodgers, Barnes (ERA 1.04), and Brasier (ERA 1.04). You could of course fire back with the amazing postseason Uehara had (7 saves, ERA 0.66) in 2013, but then I would remind you he pitched just 13.2 innings. The rest of the staff pitched 128.2 innings, and the overall team ERA in the 2013 postseason was 2.59. Good as Uehara was--and he was fantastic--he needed plenty of help for the Sox to win that title. Jon Lester threw 34.2 innings with an ERA of 1.56, and Lackey 26 innings, ERA 2.77. Also: Workman, 8.2 innings, ERA 0.0; Tazawa, 7.1 innings, ERA 1.23; Breslow, 7.1 innings, ERA 2.45; Doubront, 7 innings, ERA 1.29. This season to date the Sox have 12 blown saves, most in MLB and are now 23-27. Thus the uproar over a closer. However, the Rays are 28-21 and have 10 blown saves, the Padres 30-19 with 9 blown saves, the Twins 30-21 with 8 blown saves, the Jays 28-20 with 10 blown saves, and the Mets 34-17 with 9 blown saves. So, me, I'm having a little trouble blaming this entire freaking season on not having a great/good closer. As moonslav has pointed out, this is not a strong bullpen, which is far more important than a good closer. And let's not forget our incredibly inconsistent hitting, so-so defense which gives up crucial unearned runs, etc.

OK, fine. No name-calling. That said, I do not understand why you are so convinced that Whitlock would be a terrific closer when he has never demonstrated that skill. You also doubt his ability to start even though he never started a game until this season, which is his second season pitching at the MLB level. So far his WAR is +.8 (4th best on the Sox) and his ERA 3.49, to say nothing of his really good repertoire of pitches. Plus--and this will probably come as a shock to you--his manager and pitching coach are far more expert about pitching potential than any of us. But my big disagreement with you is the notion that no MLB team and especially not the Sox can succeed--win games--without a top notch closer. You have made this argument the centerpiece of implying that Cora is an idiot and Bloom incompetent. Meanwhile, you ignore the overall weakness of the bullpen, the inconsistent hitting, the costly errors, and the occasional lousy starts by an otherwise semi-decent rotation (with Sale still on the IL).

OK, fine. No name-calling. That said, I do not understand why you are so convinced that Whitlock would be a terrific closer when he has never demonstrated that skill. You also doubt his ability to start even though he never started a game until this season, which is his second season pitching at the MLB level. So far his WAR is +.8 (4th best on the Sox) and his ERA 3.49, to say nothing of his really good repertoire of pitches. Plus--and this will probably come as a shock to you--his manager and pitching coach are far more expert about pitching potential than any of us. But my big disagreement with you is the notion that no MLB team and especially not the Sox can succeed--win games--without a top notch closer. You have made this argument the centerpiece of arguing that Cora is an idiot and Bloom incompetent. Meanwhile, you ignore the overall weakness of the bullpen, the inconsistent hitting, the costly errors, and the occasional lousy starts by an otherwise semi-decent rotation (with Sale still on the IL).

My Sox 2021 postseason comments were entirely focused on saves. And my point was that saves were irrelevant to the fact that the Sox surprised almost everyone by beating the Yankees in the Wild Card and the Rays 3-1 in the ALDS--and not looking too shabby in the early stages of the ALCS vs. the Astros. Writ large, the Sox pitching staff did not look so hot. Eovaldi's ERA was 4.79, ERod's 4.97, Houck's 5.23, Robles 5.06. Chris Sale started 3 games and finished with an ERA of 8.00. On the other hand, Pivetta's ERA for 13 innings (mostly in relief) was 2.63, and Whitlock's (all in relief) for 8.1 innings was 2.16. Ottavino 4 innings, ERA 2.25. About game 1 of the ALCS. Sale started and lasted 2.2 freaking innings, so I pin that loss completely on him--Mr. Stinker. As for game 4 of the ALCS, I blame that loss 100% on the abysmal hitting after the 1st inning (in which the Sox scored their only 2 runs). Pivetta went 5, giving up 1 run. Taylor and Ottavino combined for 1 scoreless innings, and probably our best reliever last year, Whitlock, came in for 2 innings and gave up the tying run. Then the wheels came off.

Most of those losses were because the hitting sucked. Long starts are almost a thing of the past even though Eovaldi just went 9, winning 5-3. Saves are a dumb stat because you can get a blown save in early innings and you can get a save when you give up 2 runs in the 9th inning. As moonslav has stated and I wholeheartedly agree, the real problem is a weak bullpen. A good one can take a 1 run lead at the end of 6 innings and keep it.

I do agree about Sale as the closer this year--others also agree even though that's a lot of money to spend on a closer. But of course the money's already spent, so the trick is to get some value out of him. I don't think Bogey is worth $270M, period. Devers might be, but he wants more than $270M. As for the lousy players, I think Bloom will do what makes the most sense.

Yes, the Sox lead MLB in blown saves with 12. But, as I said earlier, the Rays have 10 blown saves and are 28-21, the Padres have 9 blown saves and are 30-18, the Jays have 10 blown saves and are 28-20, the Mets have 9 blown saves and are 33-17, and the Angels have 9 blown saves and are 27-23. So clearly other teams lack great closers but don't lose nearly as many games as the Sox. By the way, did you know that in their very good postseason last year the Sox won 6 and lost 5 vs. the Yankees, Rays, and Astros--and that in those six wins they had absolutely no saves and in those five losses they just just one blown save, but it was in the 6th freaking inning? Or that Kimbrel absolutely stunk (ERA 5.19) in the 2018 postseason but still had 6 freaking saves? I would like a good closer, but I challenge the belief that the lack of a good closer is this team's big issue.

Sox lose 2-1 on 2 unearned runs by the Reds--one from Devers throwing error, the other from Bogey's throwing error. Plus Bogey was hitless with 2 K's. Why do Old Red and others keep insisting this entire season rests on a freaking closer when there are so many other issues that are dragging them down? In that 5 game losing streak a month ago, the Sox scored 5, 0, 2, 1, and 2 runs. In their last three losses (2 to the Orioles, 1 to the Reds), the Sox have scored 2, 0, and 1 runs. During roughly the same timeframe (3 of the last 9 games) the Sox scored 16, 16, and 12 runs in 3 other games. Clearly, the hitting is very inconsistent. Feast or famine. I do not believe the fix is to shell out $500M (or more) to keep Bogey and Devers. Both are good hitters, but defensive liabilities. Sale is simply a liability.

Also to be fair, I sure hope I'm wrong about 18 straight scoreless innings. Go Sox!!!

I agree. Neither is a liability. In fact, I like both of them a lot. But that doesn't mean they are worth the exorbitant salaries they are demanding. Bogaerts and/or his agent is/are sounding as though he doesn't have two dimes to rub together. My one new thought is that agents fight for higher salaries because they want to be paid what their best players are paid. I see the fire sale you've been predicting because the Sox have the 6th biggest payroll in MLB and keep finding ways to lose games to losing teams.

Sure looks like a fire sale is coming this summer. To quote the late, great Gilda Radnor, "it's always something" that keeps these Sox from winning with any consistency. Now it's 18 straight scoreless innings vs. two losing teams (Orioles and Reds). Other times it's lack of clutch hitting. Key errors are now a regular thing. The bullpen is inconsistent. The starting pitching has actually been decent given the absence of our most expensive pitchers (Sale on the IL and Price long gone).

Agree he's not a top 3 player, but that doesn't mean I don't think he's really good. I just don't think he's worth $300M-$350M.

Actually, it's a "Sox can't hit spit" game. After that it's a "great start by Wacha game." And after that it's "another bonehead Devers error game." The bullpen is in fourth place in terms of their value toward winning this game.

Devers has been one of my favorites on this Sox team--for good reason. But my view is altered by his insistence that he be paid more than he can reasonably spend in five lifetimes.

Ahem. I believe you are on record as saying the only guy who counts in the bullpen--and perhaps on the entire team-- is the closer. This is going to come as a shock to you, but the Sox right now are losing, so first and foremost they need to score runs.

That was Raffie's 6th error, which ties him for 3d most errors by MLB third basemen. My guess is his DWAR will drop to -0.1, which would take him out of the top 20 defensive 3d basemen in MLB. I agree I'm being hard on him, but he's the guy who insists he is worth $300M to $350M. And don't forget: he gets paid the entire value of any contract no matter how poorly he plays after it's signed by both parties.

I agree both pitchers have thrown nasty stuff.