Maxbialystock

Wacha has been unreal tonight. A lot like Sale in that he is all business and doesn't shake off pitches. Unlike Sale, he has an excellent repertoire and very good command. That he is this good on his first start back is astounding. Some credit has to go to Plawecki--despite the snide remark last night that McGuire is the only decent catcher. I was about to comment that Devers is struggling against heat, but I think I'll hold that for a later game.

We both have real insight into the game and talksox is lucky to have us.

Gotta give the networks credit for featuring this series yet again and despite the struggles of the Sox (and Yankees, somewhat). It has been competitive and mostly well played. I was about to say Devers has trouble with fast balls again. But I think I'll save that thought for another game. Zoweee!!

My goodness has Wacha pitched a whale of a game tonight. Like Sale, all business, no shaking off of signs or scratching his ass or whatever. Unlike Sale, excellent repertoire and excellent command. Hard to believe this is his first start back. Some credit has to go to Plawecki for calling a good mix of pitches. On the previous game thread I read a comment McGuire should catch all the games because Plawecki is worthless--I'm exaggerating of course.

That's the $500M man.

Completely unfair to Vaz, who is beloved on Talksox, a clubhouse leader, a clutch hitter, and one of the smartest baserunning catchers ever. The Astros clubhouse was jubilant when they found out Vaz was joining them. And since then they have played just marvelous baseball (the 5-5 record does not tell the real story). Losing Vazquez pretty much finishes the Red Sox for this season and probably a couple more.

Nice game and win. First one I've watched in a while because of the blackout restrictions.

I suspect you are one of those who believe that JH should spend whatever it takes because he's so rich (a billionaire) and can afford it. Well guess what? He got rich because he knows how to turn a profit, which is what he has done assiduously with the Sox since he bought them. Their overall resale value has skyrocketed. Plus of course the four WS titles. Along the way, John Henry and whatever team he has working for him have been more than willing to let players, even good ones, go: Manny; Lester; Beckett; Lackey; AGon; Ellsbury; Reddick; Iglesias; Beni; Mookie. He kept Big Papi because Ortiz was in fact a bargain. So was Pedroia until the injury. Price was not. Ellsbury was not, but the Yankees had to learn that. One more time, my favorite tune--big salary packages rarely pay off for the simple reason that most often a player's best years are before he gets that huge contract. I think Mike Trout is clearly an exception despite the recent setback (which could be permanent). And there are others, but not many.

Actually, you should care because JH, aided and abetted by Bloom, Cora, and anyone else he listens to, is the guy who decides whether to shell out or not. If you go back and look at the 2018 roster, you will find a ton of talent on that team, including Mookie, Bogey, and Raffy, who were playing at bargain rates. Ditto Beni, JBJ, Brock Holt, Moreland, and Vazquez. All DD had to do was go out and buy Porcello, Price, Sale, and Kimbrel. ERod and Kelly were also bargains.

Thanks to the annual cost ($63M) of Price, Sale, and Eovaldi, Mookie became unaffordable. Indeed, part of the deal was sending Price to the Dodgers to lighten the salary burden to $16M/year. Since then, just 2 freaking years ago, prices have gone up. Soto just turned down $440M (from the Nats) as an insult, so it's reasonable to think that Bogey wants at least $250M to stay--and Raffy $500M. As moonslav has pointed out, there will be some salary space after this year, but will it be enough? Also, because so far the Sox farm system has yet to produce viable replacements--so far only Winckowski looks competitive at this level--it seems likely Bloom will need to keep looking for bargains.

Well, you got me there. I completely forgot that wins and losses are irrelevant to evaluating teams and, of course, players. I simply kept reading that without Vazquez--great catcher, solid hitter, and leader in the clubhouse who was maybe the only reason why the Sox were even in the hunt for a distant wild card slot--the Sox would collapse. So I thought I would mention how many games Vazquez might conceivably have influenced when he was on the team and then of course how the team has done since his departure. More than that, I simply don't believe one position player can make that much difference, and to that end cite the incomparable Mike Trout, who has delivered the goods year after year for the LA Angels. In his first 8 seasons with the Angels, he was AL MVP 3 times, second in the voting 4 times, and 4th once (2017 when his WAR was a paltry 7.2 because he only played in 114 games). In those 8 seasons (2012-2019) the Angels got to the playoffs once (2014) and in 5 of those seasons they had losing seasons. This year and last year the Angels have had both Trout and Ohtani (last year's AL MVP) and have losing records both years.

You could be right about that, but I have to ask if those "horrific ratings numbers" also occurred last year. If they don't, then this season is typical of any fan base asking, "what have you done for me lately." I'm 81 and probably older than you--and 20 years ago had an uncle who was as bad as I am--so I agree we are not the important demographic.

Meh. There is exactly one baseball team in the great Boston area and they have mostly thrived over last 120 years and certainly under the ownership of John Henry for the last 20 years. If the Sox were really competing with the Patriots, they would already have lost because the Patriots have been the best team in the NFL. So too the Celtics in the NBA in the Auerbach era--except that ol' Red had the temerity to recruit and play African-Americans which the Boston fans weren't quite ready for.

Which explains the five game losing streak the Sox have been on since Vazquez left. Oh, wait.

Once again, you deliberately misconstrue what I said. Before Vazquez left the team, the Sox had a better won-lost record in games in which Vazquez did not play than in the games in which he did play. The last 5 games merely confirm what we saw in the first 103 games. That said, the differences in won-lost records with and without Vazquez are small, so I'm not sure they are conclusive. But to me they do place some doubt on how completely indispensable some on Talk Sox say he has been.

Almost no truth. In the John Henry era, now 20 years, the Sox have been way better than the Yankees who, for all their money--and no doubt some hunger and whole lot of frustration--have flopped year after year after year. Yes, absolutely, the Yankees have and deserve those 27 titles, which makes the Sox, in the same division for the last 20+ years, success all the more amazing. moonslav's right in suggesting that John Henry will want to get another WS. Don't forget that it took 6 seasons after the 2007 WS to win again and 5 seasons after 2013.

A fair assessment except that DD paid way too much for Price, which then forced Bloom--I'm positive with JH's backing--to send him to the Dodgers with Mookie and still eat some of his salary. DD could afford that in 2018 because Mookie, Beni, Bogey, JBJ, Devers, et al, had not reached their peak earning power. Good point about Eovaldi last year against Cole. Also terrif vs. the Dodgers in the 2018 WS. That said, the Sox have paid and are paying $68M for a cumulate WAR of 6.4. In the previous 8 seasons he was paid a total of $12M for a cumulative WAR of 9.4. The sad truth is that most big contracts are paying for the past, not the future. However, I strongly agree JDM was a great buy because, as good as those other guys were in 2017, they were better in 2018 because of him.

Ahem. COVID is still with us. The hope is that its effects, primarily via vaccinations, can be lessened. But there are still plenty of us who avoid crowds, wear masks, etc Before you come back at me, take a quick look at the numbers I provided--specifically, the Sox ranking in attendance. That 32,612 this year is 10th best in MLB. The year the Sox won their first WS in 186 years, their attendance was 11th best. And the very next year, 2005, it only improved to 9th, one place better than this year's.

Sometimes we agree, and this is definitely one of those times. I think baseball is absolutely the best sport to see/watch in person. So this season I'm enormously sympathetic with/toward the Fenway fans who pay exorbitant ticket/parking/concession prices to see a lousy product. They are being robbed. So, while I'm on the topic, a reminder of my favorite topic. To me baseball and sports in general are quintessentially human endeavors which include great plays and lousy plays. As mad as we got at Duran for letting that fly ball--with two men out--turn into a grand slam home run, it was nevertheless as memorable as the great plays Story and others have made this year, including that neat glove scoop-flip by Winckowski last night to get 2d out with the freaking bases loaded, yet. So, me, I'd get rid of those bold shifts which are computer driven because I like to see great defense as well as good hitting which are less influenced by freaking technology. I wouldn't use robo-umps. I wouldn't let catchers use devices to signal which pitches to throw, but I would consider severe penalties for any team caught stealing signals unfairly.

Sure am. At least, what is reported by espn. Some samples-- 2004 35,028 ranked 11th 2005 35,159 9th 2007 36,679 11th 2011 37,703 8th 2013 34,979 9th 2017 36,020 9th 2018 35,747 9th 2019 36,106 7th 2021 21,300 11th 2022 32,612 10th

Target! Plus I'm not a big Vazquez fan. Plus, when Vazquez was on the team, the Sox had a better record in games when he didn't play than in the games in which he did. Since he left, the Sox have taken 2 of 3 from the Astros, and 1 of 2 from the Royals.

Heck, maybe it isn't COVID. I'm sure the product on the field has something to do with it too. But, then, there's that glaring fact you glossed over. The 2018 product was the best the Sox have fielded in 118 years (at that point), but their attendance, 9th best in MLB, was only slightly better than this year's 10th best. Do you remember the 2019 season? Not bad (84 wins), but a far cry from the 108 wins in 2018). Guess what? The 2019 Sox attendance was 7th best in MLB compared to 9th in 2018. Also, the 2013 (Sox won the WS) attendance was 9th in MLB, but the next year, 2014, it was 6th.

This is about the silliest post I've seen this year. In the John Henry era the Sox have 4 titles to the Yankees 1, so of course the Yankees are "hungry." Their problem is they've been hungry for 20 years and don't have much to show for those massive salaries they've been paying. That said, and even though the Yankees have a huge fan base and lots of money, those 27 championships are a great achievement. If the Sox are indeed their rivals, we're lucky to have that status. And lately, of course, the Sox have had the upper hand. I think John Henry would have every right to rest on his laurels. Maybe he is. He had no problem letting Mookie go, but by then (2020) he was also paying a king's ransom for Price, Sale, and Eovaldi who weren't doing much for the Sox--and still aren't. As I keep reminding everyone, Juan Sota just turned down a $440M offer from the Nationals as chump change. So keeping Devers could cost $500M. And Aaron Judge is having a better year than Raffy, so maybe that's why the Yankees haven't signed him up. We may be getting close to the first $50M/year ballplayer.

Of course it's the lowest. COVID hasn't gone away, and anyone who goes to sports events with big crowds, lots of unmasked breathing shouting, and even spitting/spraying (ever notice your cell phone when you've had a long conversation?) is nuts. That said, the Sox attendance in 2018, which some think was a pretty good team/year, was 9th in MLB. This year it dropped all the way down to 10th. Oh, and last year, 2021, it was 11th, so this year is an improvement.

Good comeback. I should have said "you and some Bloom-blamers." Agree completely that we need skeptics and defenders on Talk Sox. Simply stated, my defense of Bloom is based on what he did at Tampa, John Henry's evident decision to try another way besides DD's "buy what you need" approach, and the fact that 2021 was a pretty good year. On the other hand, I recognize the Sox ain't the Rays and that John Henry will spend a lot more for players than do the Rays. However, even John Henry has his limits.